Greece - Bosnia-Herzegovina (13 November 2016, Georgios Karaiskakis Stadium, Piraeus)

[Original Sydney]

10 minutes ago, GrkCdn22 said:

Relax, mate. The fact that were some people took pictures with you and some that said Orthodox brothers proves that it does exist. But as for your example of when we played against Russia in Euro 2012, it was a do or die game for both teams. The last thing I, someone who believes in Orthodox Christians sharing a bond, would think of doing is going up to my opposition and being all like "Hey man, it doesn't matter what happens. We're Orthodox brothers." I was on the edge of my seat, sweating balls watching that game, as I'm sure most were in that stadium. And as for the Serbians that you mentioned, if a guy with a Serbia flag was at a Greece vs. (somebody) game that I was at, I would think it's cool but I won't go out of my way to go up to him and take a picture with him lol. If we're close to each other and within speaking distance, I might exchange a few kind words with him and then say Orthodox brothers, but I won't have a crazy long conversation with him or something like that. Don't feel that anybody owes you anything. The fact that people did take pictures with you and say Orthodox brothers was great.

Watch the video that I posted of Novak Djokovic saying that Greeks and Serbians are Orthodox brothers. There were many Greeks and Serbians mixed with each other in the crowd and they were all cheering together. You can bet that many had nice conversations and many of them probably said the words "Orthodox brothers".

Wasn't talking about inside the stadiums but outside when fan bases are around each other drinking, if the Polish Argentianians hell even the Nigerians can make an effort to come take photos with us Greeks then surely our so called brothers would also.

If Serbs loved us so much why do they call skops Macedonians then?

I don't buy into that orthodox brother rubbish, there was a time I did but after going to many events it changed my mind.

[Original Sydney]

23 minutes ago, GrkCdn22 said:

The Orthodox brotherhood concept has been an often discussed topic on the forum and the now defunct greeksoccer.com forum. We must remember that Eastern Orthodoxy started in Greece and through Greek Orthodoxy, and I don't think any country and nationality has forgotten it. I think that of all the peoples that practice Orthodox Christianity, Serbians are the most warming to Greeks. You can see on many Youtube videos and posts around the internet how close the two are and how much the two respect each other.

Perhaps the most famous, popular and even notable Serbian in the world right now, Novak Djokovic, believes that Greeks and Serbians are Orthodox brothers:

He even cheered for Greece at the 2014 World Cup because Serbia wasn't in it. He was watching and celebrating our win against Ivory Coast before (or after) one of his matches at Wimbledon:

And there you go.

Wow he supports Greece maybe go ask him why he refs to the skops as Macedonians if he has so much love for us.....

[ausgreek]

3 hours ago, ELLAS75 said:

ok missed that in all the chaos

Kyriako getting sent off was a joke. I didn't see anything in it. In my day grabbing someone on the balls meant you want to have a coffee or to borrow the car keys. Times are changing.

[Original Sydney]

30 minutes ago, GrkCdn22 said:

And you said that they did come up to you and take pictures so what are you complaining about exactly? And as for Serbs calling Skops Macedonian, it's Serbia, not Serbs. Don't let a governmental issue reflect upon the citizens. I've read many comments online of Serbians denouncing their government agreeing to label FYROM as Macedonia.

Can you prove that? And why haven't you commented on how many Greek and Serbian fans in the crowd were supporting each other?

You obviously haven't been to a Euro or WC to know what I mean.

And I have heard MANY Serbs call them Macedonians.

Maybe if you looked at the comments way earlier you will see my comments toward the Greek and Serb supporters at the game and my feelings toward that.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Original Sydney

[Original Sydney]

13 minutes ago, ausgreek said:

Kyriako getting sent off was a joke. I didn't see anything in it. In my day grabbing someone on the balls meant you want to have a coffee or to borrow the car keys. Times are changing.

He did throw a punch/slap a player infront of the assist ref

[Original Sydney]

1 minute ago, Pana97 said:

Argentina fans wanted to take pics with the Greeks? How were they? For some reason I feel  like Greeks and Argentinians have a mutual respect for each other, but I don't know why lol. 

Pana they were really good fans, came over to us Greeks in the shopping centres and took pics together, in clubs they did the same and game day outside the ground we took pics with them. They can give a crazy atmosphere also was really impressed with their fans, one chant they do specifically made the whole stadium tremble

[Original Sydney]

Just now, Pana97 said:

Yeah they seem to be a passionate bunch. Boca Juniors have some amazing fans. Glad that they were so nice to you and the other Greeks. That is how it should be. 

Yeah they were cool fans to be around. Polish fans are also great but once they've downed a bottle or 2 of Vodka its time to go the other way from them olol

[georgelaz]

In many ways, GrkCdn22 is the Tzavella of our forum lol

[Original Sydney]

3 minutes ago, GrkCdn22 said:

Anyway, you seem very angry about this for some reason so I won't discuss these issues with you at the moment while you speak out of emotion. I find it hard to believe that you've heard many Serbians call Skops Macedonians. I think you would have mentioned that earlier, plus you might want to draw up scenarios for more plausibility. Right now, you make it seem like you've been randomly walking past Serbians and you magically hear the word "Macedonian" coming out of their mouths.

I also don't know what you're talking about when you say if I looked at the comments way earlier. I was talking about the tennis match between Baghdatis and Djokovic where Greek and Serbian fans were all cheering together and Djokovic said after the match that we are Orthodox brothers.

After all that you come up with me being angry? Hahaha I don't see where im angry but anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you keep assuming.

You find it hard to believe well sorry mate you believe what you want and I will do the same, I have heard many of them say it, whether you believe me or not has really no bearing on me or my life. And please stop with the dumb assumptions as above that you have made.

As for the Greeks and Serbs, sorry I thought you meant the ones in the stadium for today's match not the video. But big deal, few fans at tennis cheering together does that make us orthodox brothers? You been to Greece and seen how they feel toward Serbs? They don't think much of them that's for sure.

[Original Sydney]

2 minutes ago, GrkCdn22 said:

Well yeah, if not angry then what's the word lol. Just me saying that you're angry got a significant reaction. I don't know if a Serbian stole your girlfriend once or something, but there's there's something up lol. You seem very passionate about this topic. Like you must convince people at all costs that Greeks and Serbians are not Orthodox brothers, or that there is no Orthodox brotherhood.

Anyway, this is opinion based. Our opinions simply differ. But no, a "few fans" at a tennis stadium don't automatically make us brothers. I posted the clip mostly to highlight a very prominent Serbian who believes that Greeks and Serbians are Orthodox brothers. And no, I can't speak for the millions inside Greece (nor do I feel that you can), but there are quite a few Serbian-Greeks in the Greek entertainment industry, and Miss Greece was a Serbian girl a few years ago. Just a few things that I can list off the top of my head.

This doesn't need to be an argument though. I'm willing to move on if you are.

I am passionate about this as people are deluded by false facts and this is one of them. Many people say we have a brotherhood but we don't mate. Russia doesn't give a F*** about us, only way they will help Greece is if it benefits them. Serbia the same.

Who's arguing? Im only stating facts that you seem to want to challenge and I am happy to debate it with you.

Let me ask you this, when did you ever last see a Serbian fan holding a Greek Flag like the way we do for them? And I'm not talking about a Greek and a Serb next to each other, I mean Serbs fans on their own pulling out a Greek flag, I personally haven't seen it at all.

As for the Greeks, no I cant speak for every Greek but since I just got back from Greece and was there for a while I saw enough and heard enough from bar owners, beach bar owners, people on the streets and restaurant owners who would constantly slag the Serbs who were on holidays in Greece. They honestly don't see them as "brothers" the way us Aussies and Americans like to say....

[Original Sydney]

3 minutes ago, GrkCdn22 said:

I respect your viewpoint. We may just disagree about this. The way I feel is that I won't call someone a "brother" if he's not a good person or is not kind to me, regardless of his religion or nationality. But by saying that many people say that we have a brotherhood does prove, to some extent, that it exists among many Orthodox Christians. It's human nature that we feel more connected to people the more we have in common with them, so if someone is not only Christian, but Orthodox Christian, it's something we can identify with and vice-versa.

As for your question, I think it's a very ambiguous question because I haven't really seen that from either side. I think it's pretty subjective and can only be based on experience rather than the norm. The only other flag I've seen many times among Greeks in sporting events or parades (or similar things) is the Cyprus flag, of course.

I agree about Russia doing what's best for them and will only help if it can help them, but again that's the government, not the people. The U.S. would do the same, and realistically, pretty much every country. Don't confuse politics with citizens.

Anyway, as with all nationalities, there are good Serbians and bad Serbians, bottom line. I wouldn't point to them as a problem for Greeks, though. There are many other types of nationalities that we would slag before Serbians.

Fair points you make and I respect them just as you respect mine and we don't have to agree but respect one-another opinion.

I may sound like I'm contradicting myself but I wish we had a brotherhood or should I say something more visible as a brotherhood as in the end its the religion that keeps us binded. But there are certain things iv seen from both sides that shows me otherwise.

Iv seen on few occasions club fans having Serbian flags with them and also our NT fans with it also (overnight match is a good example) but never once have I seen a group of Serbs with a Greek flag.

I do agree with your end part, there are good serbs and bad serbs, just like we have some good greeks and then some cracked ones also lol

[georgelaz]

there is definitely general warm feelings between greeks and serbs. much like how there's warm feelings towards bosniaks and turks.

if Greece was having a crisis, it would be the Serbs that would likely open their boarders to us over the Turks imo.

There's always group preferences in general, let's be real. most people can't be bothered to even bring their nations flag around, let alone a philonation. people are lazy, group preferences are real.

[Original Sydney]

One thing I will give the Serbs credit for is their support for their NT, they put their club s%$#! aside and ALL go support their nation when they're in tournaments, us dumbass Greeks need to learn from that but we are too busy worrying about each club owner and what he is up to than to build a strong fan base and be feared/respected within Europe.....

[HellasLEAF]

5 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

Full Match Preview incoming.
We played poorly, I agree, but not as poorly as everyone decides to propose we did. Second half I saw one chance from Bosnia and 3-4 good ones from us.

DEFENCE:Ibisevic, Dzeko, Pjanic , Lulic they are world class , all of them. And what did they really get? Their crucial chances were a Pjanic shot at  75' and a lucky static shot at the woodwork.

MIDFIELD: Lost from the beginning, poor game from Samaris, Maniatis running up and down but really nothing useful with the ball on his feet.

OFFENCE: Mantalos not existent, not at all. Did nothing up front but can't really blame him. Lulic was on that side, and he had to help Toro in his defensive duties(

TooLong-Didn'tRead version: We were bad at first half becuase we were afraid to play offensively. We played offensively at 2nd half and I think we dominated it.(alongside bosnian coach helping us). Bosnian offence needed defensive care, and we had what it takes to keep them at bay.Sokratis bad match. Few key chances for us like woodworks and tetatets. Draw deserved in total. Reminds of old Greek NT. 

I've shortened the reply.  Solid review I agree with much of what was said.  The basic issue being the inability to connect to and hold the midfield, our biggest weakness.  But a weakness of our own doing.  Defensively, guild-edge chances they had few. 

A few changes and the team can be much better.  Bosnia looked like a strong team, tough to break down.  We got swallowed up in the midfield and beaten repeatedly in the air.  Our defenders could win headers, but no one else.  Once the ball went into the midfield was all so predictable and touches so poor they would immediately apply pressure and cough up the ball in short order either right away or after one-two passes, which were also under big pressure.  In truth, their control touch and ball movement was far superior.  Much more together like a team.  Once we gave the ball up, it was a struggle to even get it back.  And we gave it away all too easily.  

This team will surely lose in Bosnia I fear.  Skibbe tactics and selection has gotten us this far, but it will not be enough in the long run in the tougher matches to come.  Best case is a draw if they really park the bus.  

 

 

[Original Sydney]

13 minutes ago, ThrylosG7 said:

I may be a bit biased about this because I have a lot of Serb friends - i think its important to distinguish between the Govt and the people. Look at the current Greek govt - 90% of the diaspora cannot stand Tsipras - and now most Greeks in Greece dont either - is the current govt really representative of ALL Greeks and how they think ?? Probably not. In MY experience with Serbs - every single one that i have met has treated me differently - more warmly upon finding out I am Greek - when I go to the Serb festival same thing. In my personal experience Serbs feel it more keenly than the Greeks I know .

Now about the Fyrom issue - that is a political issue - and not as simple as just supporting us. Speak to Serbs though - and they know their history I haven't met one Serb ever who thinks the Skops are related to the Macedonians of antiquity .. As for calling them Macedonians - the large portion of that blame is the Greek govt for allowing the term "Macedonian" in the acronym. i can tell you that apart from Greeks ( and then even many greeks dont do it either) . EVERYONE called them Macedonians - because Greece never bothered to sort our the ethnicity issue or the language issue either. no one os going to call them Fyromian or Skopjian - 90% of the world dont even know what or where Skopje is - Serbs know but referring to a nation racially after a city sounds ridiculous..in essence its impractical - and we cant expect others to call them skops or Fyromians. 

 

I will say that my long term Serb friends do call them skops because of me - after correcting them endlessly - and givving them death looks - its second nature now.

Some good points there TG7 and I agree with most, Serbs are good people from what I have come across. Good and bad in every race.

Just with the FYROM issue, we can lay blame on govts and whatever else, but us Greeks have never once said anything in regards to Kosovo (as example) we have ALWAYS known it to be Serbian and have always said it regardless of who's in power in any govt, this is my issue with the Serbs, regardless of who runs the country, regardless of what propaganda can be thrown around the simple fact is it should come to them easily when it comes to the FYROM issue and that is siding with us and not referring to them as Macedonians.

[PAOmelbourne]

F*** BOSNIA

ELLAS ENANTION OLON !!!!!!

[PAOmelbourne]

17 minutes ago, ThrylosG7 said:

The Melbourne Hellas Fan club tried to set up all over the world - Some are still going - but melbourne is back to just a handful of friends now I think or gone completely - I remember they gained fame at the tennis with Baghdatis - actually it was at the tennis they were very close with the Serb fans...- at one stage they had a few hundred members. - Problem was the guy that started it - wanted to keep it strictly hardcore - a lot of more moderate fans joined - he was happy to take their money but not respect their opinions. He was also a poly theist - and didnt see anyone who is orthodox as Greek , anyone who suggested a less aggressive approach or not as confrontational in terms of supporting the NT was shot down in flames....

Like at club games there should be a place for every type of fan to go watch and feel part of the atmosphere

 

Thats absolute garbage !!

i dare say 99.9999% of members were orthodox, no issues there! On any given occasion, we in Melbourne can create an atmosphere that can replicate those in Europe, we have the numbers, we have the passion...we just don't bother due to the bullshit onslaught that occurs from media and all the rest it!

weve always shared a brothership with the serbs and still continue to this day

[georgelaz]

I wonder how many greeks are still polytheistic. and the one's that are, how many actually remained that way from ancient times or converted back to it.

there are villages as far as india which are remnants of ancient macedonians that are polytheistic still eg) dionysis the god of wine.

[ausgreek]

Afew 'Masso's' (Skopians) I've known refer to Serbs as allies and Croats as enemies. They also supported Serbia in world cup matches when Serbia have been involved, since post Yugoslavia early 90's.

Usually slavs will always go with slavs deepest down. Argentinians are an interesting situation. I had a close mate years ago, was a goalkeeper, he used to love Greek culture, dancing and ended up marrying a Greek girl. I had seen him at Greek nightclubs too.

Good to read about the passion that Serbs and Greeks being Christians-Orthodox, and the fact we are binded. keep in mind though, a Greek and Skopian tried to get married in a Greekk church, although, the Skopian had to Still get baptised to Greek Orthodox. They are not politically the same. There are over 25 different Orthodoxes in Orthodoxy. Anyway, Praise the Lord for the mystery over 2016 years ago for us.

Now, you all don't get a kick in the butt for the arguing, lets all go get a yeeros, pame!

Edited November 14, 2016 by ausgreek

[Limnos77]

Can we just talk about the game and leave out the political BS

[druid]

I registered just to say this.

I could insult you to very worst and you and your fans are well  worth it but instead imma just say that you should be ashamed of your fans and players. Let's just say that we haven't been all goody2shoes with you but we've never burned your flag, we've never endorsed genocide or political issues through our fans and we've never gave such hostility towards you. Similar can be said for the game. You don't deserve a point, flat out. Angry or not, biased or not -- this is just the truth. What you've shown last night is complete antifootball and show (along with the swed) how corrupted and biased refs are in modern one. But other than that, a friendly advice - Don't come to Zenica. People here furious over everything that took place last night and rarely do these people forget and brush aside. Expect hell next year and another 3-1, because you deserve every bit of both. Hopefully you will not see POs with this kind of play. I've lost every bit of respect towards hellas' footy, shame.

[Akritis_1944]

11 hours ago, Molon Lave said:

Where's Otto Rehhagel when you need him? 

Hopefully on his deathbed. Skibbe has been getting advice from the old fool and this is the outcome.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Akritis_1944
Typo

[RED SHERIFF]

21 minutes ago, OlympicHellas said:

2000 ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ will be there, because people like you do not intimidate us, understand champ?

Bosnia is and always will be a footballing backwater, your people's confidence always astounds me.

Bosnia are a good team..

[RED SHERIFF]

40 minutes ago, druid said:

I registered just to say this.

I could insult you to very worst and you and your fans are well  worth it but instead imma just say that you should be ashamed of your fans and players. Let's just say that we haven't been all goody2shoes with you but we've never burned your flag, we've never endorsed genocide or political issues through our fans and we've never gave such hostility towards you. Similar can be said for the game. You don't deserve a point, flat out. Angry or not, biased or not -- this is just the truth. What you've shown last night is complete antifootball and show (along with the swed) how corrupted and biased refs are in modern one. But other than that, a friendly advice - Don't come to Zenica. People here furious over everything that took place last night and rarely do these people forget and brush aside. Expect hell next year and another 3-1, because you deserve every bit of both. Hopefully you will not see POs with this kind of play. I've lost every bit of respect towards hellas' footy, shame.

Bosnia are a good football team....and play good football..

I care little for the Serb brotherhood...rubbish..

 

However your coaches names is Mehmet you need to understand that Greeks see this is the eternal enemy..no sugar coating..you say people in Zenica won't forget what happened in a football game...but the people of Hellas will never forget Mehmet..

[RED SHERIFF]

25 minutes ago, Amorgos said:

Hey druid, what exactly did the Greeks do besides a serbian fan and his flags?

apparently they raised banners re serb atrocities.