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Estonia vs. Greece (10 October 2016, A Le Coq Arena, Tallinn)


Omonoia9

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This is sad news 

 

Τέλος από την Εθνική ο Χολέμπας!

"Βόμβα" στα αποδυτήρια της Εθνικής από τον αμυντικό της Γουότφορντ, ο οποίος με το τέλος της αναμέτρησης κόντρα στην Εσθονία, ανακοίνωσε πως βάζει τέλος στην καριέρα του με τα γαλανόλευκα. Προσπάθεια να μεταπεισθεί.

Η αλήθεια είναι πως στα τελευταία παιχνίδια της Ελλάδας ο Μίκαελ Σκίμπε δεν υπολόγιζε στα βασικά του πλάνα τον 32άχρονο άσο. Τώρα αν αυτό έπαιξε ρόλο στην απόφαση του θα ξεκαθαρίσει τις επόμενες ώρες. Το γεγονός είναι πως ο Χολέμπας πιστεύει πως έκλεισε ο κύκλος του στην Εθνική Ελλάδας και το ανακοίνωσε στα αποδυτήρια, μετά τη νίκη με 2-0 επί της Εσθονίας.

Οι συμπαίκτες του προσπάθησαν να τον μεταπείσουν χωρίς αποτέλεσμα, ενώ μένει να δούμε ποια θα είναι η στάση και του Γερμανού τεχνικού στο θέμα που προέκυψε.

 
Edited by Molon Lave
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I was wrong. He can play EIGHT positions.

 

Anyway, Skibbe should be worrying more about his RB selections. Torosidis can be hot or cold, and Sokratis is not good cover there. And yet, we bring 3 LBs into each game. A shame.

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I'm just not ready to jump all over the coach just yet.  We don't know what really happened or why he hasn't played much.  

It could very well be that Skibbe doesn't prefer him as he is still suspect at the back.  He was tried at left mid I believe so he could very well not rate him as a defensive player.    

This could also be a bit of a emotional decision like how Messi quit, but by the time November rolls around could be fine we'll see.  Sitting is not fun and you get pissed anyone that has played at a decent enough level knows. 

 

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He is a solid EPL player that has a place on this team. I would play him as a left mid/winger where the risk he poses as a defender is mitigated. He is actually one of the most effective attacking players we have and the NT has lost an important player if he stands by his word.

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1. Karnezis - 7 - He faced some real shots this time and was commendable.  Everything was stoppable and he did his job for the team.  Nothing too extraordinary though.

2. Oikonomou - 5 - I mean, decent enough.  

3. Manolas - 8 - I thought he was excellent back there, and really held it all together in nervous moment with Sokratis gone.   

4. Stafylidis - 6 -  I think the goal is clouding things a bit.  I liked the skill on the goal, and he was good enough as a lot was asked of him, but there were still careless passes out there and isn't all that imposing defensively.

5. Tachtidis - 5.5 - I'm just not seeing enough consistent performances out of this player yet.  He's too carless with the ball and doesn't inspire confidence.  I do hope I'm wrong about him as there are glimpses but he needs to refine his game.

6. Maniatis - 0 - I can't stand careless players that give away fouls like Maniatis.  I think he's lost a step and creates nothing going forward.  Even I can stroke a ball up to an open winger.  Get rid of him now Skibbe before it's too late. 

7. K. Paps - 7.5 - I am surprised at the ratings on him I thought he was a big presence in the air and solid on the ground.  He got better as the match went along.  It was a performance that reminds you how high we were on him before injuries.  Was not fazed by change of position either, he and Manolas far and away our best players.

8. Bakasetas - 3 - I'm just not seeing it with this player.  I mean, I am surprised that Skibbe starts him and thinks this much of him.  I can think of at least 5 or 6 players I would rather have in his spot right now.  We'll see.  

9. Mantalos - 6 - It was not one of his better games, despite some nice play in the match. 

10. Karelis - 4.5 - Maybe as a striker.  Decent player.  Not a starter for me.

11. Mitroglou - N/A - Honestly he had absolutely no service today.  None.  It's hard for me to even give him a rating.  It was not his best day as a target man though that goes without saying.  Maybe a 5 because he has been solid for the team since the beginning. 

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If it's true and Holebas quit then F*** him sorry to say, no one is bigger than the team, that's just being a sook. Stay and fight for your place and be a man about it. This is why our NT won't have the success of the past 2004 team, those guys bonded and worked together and fought for their starting spot.  Wasn't too long ago there was a report saying he threw the Greek jersey on the ground from frustration, now whether that was also true just adds to the fact that he had a bad attitude.

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24 minutes ago, Pana97 said:

If Jose Mourinho were coach we would still be playing mediocre balla. In time we may see a change, but this current crop of players don't have a leader and they only want to bleed for themselves that is the real issue. 

 

If Mourinho was coach we would definitely be playing some dire stuff. Mourinho though successful has never had his teams play attractive. Anyway that's a side issue. 

Santos was regressing by the end of his first year in charge but he did have a better collection of players than Otto did overall and it wasn't as sub-standard as Otto's last 6 years.

Skibbe has no excuse in my opinion. He plays players without club form and those he does play usually are in their unpreferred position (Stafylidis, Karelis, Papadopoulos, Bakasetas, Diamantakos for example.)

I'm 30 minutes in to the replay and yes there have been way to many cheap errors and giveaways but it's not like the Estonians have been dominating. 

The early goal allowed the Ethniki to cruise for right and wrong reasons. I'm not pleased that we would give up so much possession though.

Tachtsidis has been a standout from what I've seen. Excellent football brain.

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4 hours ago, Argy said:

He is a solid EPL player that has a place on this team. I would play him as a left mid/winger where the risk he poses as a defender is mitigated. He is actually one of the most effective attacking players we have and the NT has lost an important player if he stands by his word.

 

 

Yeah I've been saying this for a while. I've noticed Watford have recently used him as a LM too.

 

For the Estonia game we should have played Stafylidis as LB and Holebas as LM. Seems a no brainer to me!

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6 hours ago, 1789 said:

Is one GK? I think he did play in net once for PAOK. Am I mistaken?

I think that might have been the almighty Tziolis, another player who would have raised this team's level vs Estonia (and who can play FOUR positions to perfection on his own).

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Now would I rather have Holebas in the lineup? Without a doubt!

but who knows? Maybe he was a bad apple in the locker room? Didn't he recently throw his NT jersey in a fit of rage following a loss? Maybe it didn't sit well with the morons at EPO and or his teammates...

perhaps Skibbe marginalized him to force him out... who knows.. after all, Remember when Otto got rid of Zikos and Georgatos (by far superior talent) for the sake of team harmony? As we all know, that worked wonders..

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It was a really tough game to watch. Our best players were Karnezis & Manolas. Holebas is one of our most talented players offensively, he will be missed and it's such a shame. I do think going forward, we have what it takes to beat Bosnia at home.

We're 3-0 and a win next month will be huge for this team so lets try to be a little positive.

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I'm VERY happy with what I've seen from our team until now in these qualifiers. Not because we have played some amazing football, but because we are slowly turning into the TEAM we were under Santos (and Rehhagel) again. Once again we're seeing a team that is willing to run and fight for eachother, and that plays effective football. Credit to Skibbe for rightfully diagnosing what went wrong under the previous qualifiers, and cleaning up the bourdello we had become.

I'm also positive towards what I've seen because this is a new team, and there is, in my opinion, a lot of potential once we gain more chemistry and experience, especially in our offensive play. Obviously our defence is rock solid (especially once Tzavelas returns), but offensivly i think we show a lot of promise thats needs time to be worked on.

As for Cholevas quitting, i say good riddance if he doesn't accept siiting on the bench. We have Tzavellas that rightfully is preferred over him in a 4 man defence, and behind we have Stafylidis who is the future. It's not the first time Cholevas has come across as a bad apple, and lets not forget that he didn't care about his greek heritage before he had the opportunity to play for for a national team that would give him exposure on the big stage.

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13 hours ago, pash said:

Hahahaha! This place is the best

World class player no and I didn't mean it like that maybe bad choice of words, What I meant was compared to the players playing in his position he looks like a world class player and there is no reason anyone should be chosen over him. he's definitely one of the most talented players we have.

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After some thought about it I ve came to some random conclusions:
*Everyone b!tching about how poor we played after 2 starters already missing and 2 more comming on the way is completely retarded.

*Everyone b!tching about no good offensive progression without Frtounis is completely retarded. He is way more talented than Mantalos and Bakasetas apparently, and his loss was crucial. Mantalos is also very good but I really rate Fortounis a lot higher than him. His pressing on the Right Flank is remarkable and needs a spot in the starting X1.

*Everyone crying about why Bakasetas is played as a winger/wide AM and not Karelis just needs to watch this match to understand why. Karelis highlights: try to dribble past 1-2 guys and fail, some soft shots on the keeper, giving his hands to the Estonians after final blow. I like Bakasetas LW for only one thing, and that is: We know our Left flank is kinda bad defensively, even Holebas was no Defence god, Stafylidis and Tzavellas are also not that great. Bakasetas runs his bum up and down defending and then helping offence again. Guy is not very fast but his physical is enough. He is the Seba of our NT. And against Belgium/Bosnia, we re gonna need that extra man defending. -> Dont get me wrong, I rate Karelis as a CF, but only as that.

*Did anyone look at that Wasiljev guy's hair? WTF man this is not 1980 no more.

*Kyriakos as a RB is a MUST-NOT-HAPPEN-AGAIN. Forgot himself up front too much. That header should ve gone in mate.

*I posted this before as well but here I go again: Stafylidis is Estonian daddy. All you h8ers go pray for ex-Paok Winger.

*I honestly don't understand how people blame Tachtsidis. He did some remarkable stuff and most importantly keep the midfield not be a κέντρο διερχομένων. Did some really smart stuff throughout the game that seemed retarded for one simple reason: noone could read his mind. It is obvious that this player has not trained with this team and they don't know him well enough. Liked the fact that he tried with high through balls at first, but after watching how slow our attackers were he adapted to the team. Really seems like a situation where an unknown guy is brought to play to your 8x8 team because someone found a gf and there is no time for him to play.

*Stop praising Karnezis for existing. I mean ok he stopped everything vs both Cyprus and Estonia, he is not a keeper to let a cheap goal come on. He is very talented, good Keeper (kinda problematic with penalties), but all the shots that were made on target were literally comming on him. This is in both matches. Also secure with his feet. After I saw Panayi of Cyprus I really felt some relief that we have Karnezis and Kapinos.

* Cyprus you could ve done better. That -2 points would keep Bosnians 5 points behind us before the clash. Now if that ain't displeasent for them , I don't know what is.

*Holebas Idgaf(i dont give a fak-for you old people) if he used the NT for fame and contracts. He was and is our best LB and played at his full potential.Proved to care despite eveyrone saying otherwise. And Skibbe mistreated him. That's on the coach.
HOWEVER, had he stayed and there indeed existed a problem, that would mean the changing rooms would be lost and the team would return to the EURO16 path. On the one side, problematic behaviour players leaving (and willingly) is a bonus. But our other options are far inferior.

*That translater after the match taking an interview from Skibbe. WTF man, why dont we find someone who knows about football?I mean ok that's really nothing serious but EPO seems full of trolls.


*I honestly believe we are going to qualify for the play offs at least. Bosnia seems troubled. A player stated that"If we played like we played today(vs Cyp) in Greece we will take a result". Another player stated some minutes later "If we play like we played today(vs Cyp) in Greece we are going to have problems". Even they dont know if they played good or bad. So I guess its not just us. Its the whole Group's thing.
If we go to the WC depends on who we meet.

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14 minutes ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

Everyone crying about why Bakasetas is played as a winger/wide AM and not Karelis just needs to watch this match to understand why. Karelis highlights: try to dribble past 1-2 guys and fail, some soft shots on the keeper, giving his hands to the Estonians after final blow. I like Bakasetas LW for only one thing, and that is: We know our Left flank is kinda bad defensively, even Holebas was no Defence god, Stafylidis and Tzavellas are also not that great. Bakasetas runs his bum up and down defending and then helping offence again. Guy is not very fast but his physical is enough. He is the Seba of our NT. And against Belgium/Bosnia, we re gonna need that extra man defending. -> Dont get me wrong, I rate Karelis as a CF, but only as that.

I am glad someone else has some belief in Bakasetas. I say give him more time and he will only get better.

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holebas is greek. his dad's name is achiles and imo he played hard for us and didn't appear to slack at all. I have cousins who are 3rd generation greeks and they are just as greek as anybody. him and mr. mykonos are regularly spotted at the beach bars lol

he's our best lb by a long shot. staf and tzavella are the equivalent to skondras and kitsiou as a replacement for torosidis

he's a no brainer to be our lb I really don't get it.

and dude plays in epl

we have been getting results without him though, perhaps he has been the cancer of the group? despite putting on sick performances, that could just be in spite of his not caring lol.

Edited by georgelaz
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I've only rated Holebas speed and strength. He is a very average player in my opinion but has improved. In my opinion his speed has made him be part of this team. He was not very composed on the ball, he is very clumsy and touches weren't always consistent. His speed made up for everything. Stafylidis I believe has better touches on the ball and is more composed. 

Edited by Dean97
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