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Greece V Cyprus: Oct. 7, 2016 World Cup Qualifier - Georgios Karaiskakis Stadium ( Piraeus )


HellasLEAF

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2 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

 

How clear are we that it's Skibbe not willing to call Kone and not the EPO? I assume this is the talent you are talking about, since from all the players possible (Maybe Siopis too but he is very young) Kone was the midfielder missing and could be key to transition from a successfull defense to scoring. I am pretty sure many players who were part of the campaign for Euro literally lost interest (and showed so) in the National Team. You obviously can't let this go like "Hey, remember us? We back at winning , wanna come?" Judging from how easily Kone preferred Greece over Albania (due to bigger possibilities to make it to the bigger stage I can pressume - and a fair careerwise option if you ask me) Id say it would be that easy to ditch it when it's a No-Go.

 

Who else do you have in mind as more talented player who did not get a call up?

Don't start with the Ninis thing. His most efficient position right now is AMF and we have Fortounis and Mantalos there. Just doesn't fit.

Pelkas same.

Fetfatzidis bad league and recently saw a pic of him being fatty.

Siopis too young to be able to judge. Also playing with a very strong side in a small league which can possibly hide his weaknesses. Possible call up in my opinion if he keeps up.

Our Defenders/Attacking Midfielders/Forwards are those who really deserve to be called. Our Midfield was/is/has been and probably will be a goddamn problem. If Zeca doesn't get Nationality we really have noone to pair Samaris with. 3 Coaches did not prefer Tachtsidis. 3 fcking coaches of our NT didn't want him to be a starter. There can be something wrong with chemistry, but yeah, you guys play Fifa and u know that since tachtsidis has 80(random number) and maniatis has 72 Skibbe must be so bad he doesnt even know basic αριθμητική.

 

Moreover since you like bashing Skibbe so much, this is the first official "tough" match we had. You didnt want Tziolis, You didnt see Tziolis. So since we saw Maniatis. That means the player has something me/you dont understand. He is a defending running machine. Case closed. He had a bad game. This is something we can agree at. Remember him at the World Cup? Samaris - Maniatis duo literally very strong in all 3 games (Colombia ripped us apart so yeah not gonna talk about it-still that 3-0 wasnt exactly the match picture).

So instead of hoping Skibbe ditches him and brings on someone else, Id suggest you start putting all your positive avra and yin yang and shiet into hoping he finds a team. 

 

 

ALSO: For everyone saying they didnt like how the team played:
Under Santos we were playing twice as bad and still getting every damn result we wanted (Ex: Greece-Bosnia 0-0 , Slovakia-Greece 0-1 , Liechtenstein-Greece 0-1). If you compare the team from 2013 to this one and find this one more problematic, you niga need an ofthalmiatro. Im not saying we are Barcelona.

So then you agree with not making Holebas a starter or giving Bak all those minutes when there is better options or maybe your a fan of playing maniatis who yes has passion but no talent, so then you agree with Skibbe choices and the subs he makes .Are you saying Ninis doesn't deserve to be called up as even a bench option? You keep saying Fetfa is fat based on one picture. And yes I would rather see taxi over Staf. Look back at the the subs Skibbe has made over the last few games espcially the Gibraltor game when we needed to go for the kill and pound a few more goals he brings in Tziolis for what? Right now yes we are getting the wins but how long do you think that can last? It's a little embarrassing that Estonia scored the same amount of goals on Gibraltor and DIDN'T conced yet we did isn't it? I just think we have better options.

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Doesn't anyone believe we need to play at a faster tempo. Maybe we should put Fortounis at a deeper position and play K.Papadopoulos as a holding mid, also have Mantalos drift in from the wing from time to time. We are slow at building the play from the back. We also we need more options upfront, we saw today that Fortounis was by himself dribbling with no one to pass to. I only saw a very slow Mitroglou support him and he was the only option.

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Cyprus is not a strong side, but the Greek side has to improve a lot. And, they have to be more accurate in converting opportunities. They won't get as many against other better teams. The 2 goals were lucky. The first, there was a foul on a Cypriot player, and the second was a gift from the Cypriot keeper.

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7 hours ago, J1078 said:

So then you agree with not making Holebas a starter or giving Bak all those minutes when there is better options or maybe your a fan of playing maniatis who yes has passion but no talent, so then you agree with Skibbe choices and the subs he makes .Are you saying Ninis doesn't deserve to be called up as even a bench option? You keep saying Fetfa is fat based on one picture. And yes I would rather see taxi over Staf. Look back at the the subs Skibbe has made over the last few games espcially the Gibraltor game when we needed to go for the kill and pound a few more goals he brings in Tziolis for what? Right now yes we are getting the wins but how long do you think that can last? It's a little embarrassing that Estonia scored the same amount of goals on Gibraltor and DIDN'T conced yet we did isn't it? I just think we have better options.

 

I only talked about call ups no starters or players who played. You are right but you missunderstood my comments. Im not talking about who should start. I have a different opinion with skibbe as well.

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6 hours ago, Hudson said:

Cyprus is not a strong side, but the Greek side has to improve a lot. And, they have to be more accurate in converting opportunities. They won't get as many against other better teams. The 2 goals were lucky. The first, there was a foul on a Cypriot player, and the second was a gift from the Cypriot keeper.

 

Foul at a cypriot player while a handball at the cypriot area had occured seconds before. One excludes the other "not typically" but that's how it is. Can' blame ref when he hasnt given a penalty against you can you?

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Just watched some extended highlights. I can honestly say this team gets worse with every new campaign. So slow, my god and people are asking for tachtsidis....Worse they struggle to perform simple fundamentals. If this coach achieves anything with this group it will mostly be because teams blow just as much. I'm seeing a lot of space in our half, cyprus didn't have the players to exploit us. It could get ugly against belgium unless they shut up shop. I won't even discuss the mitroglou effort...Oh and for those supporting the so called world class CB duo, another great display of positioning and marking...Seriously guys, we all have eyes don't we?

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This frustrating coach is entitled to turn to his detractors and say 4 wins on the trot. Better than a kick in the ass! 

Having Tziolis as team mascot is a masterstroke whilst Gianniotas must start, even ahead of say a Fetfa. 

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28 minutes ago, aek66 said:

yes, i'd ask for taxi even more. a passed ball is faster than any human. i know that maniatis and stafylidis can outrun busquets and iniesta and de rossi and parolo...this means that spain and italy are painfully slower than hellas?

we have garbage in the CM and for years, wide attackers not quite wide attackers. playing at anything more than a slow tempo would be suicidal. if somehow, the ball breaks high for fortounis or mandalos, then i know things speed up because they know what do with the ball.

I'll try guess where you are going with this....

Those teams have a lot of the ball. They have ball retainers. They have excellent movers off the ball.

Taxi is not really a great mover off the ball and even of he was, he is not going to keep passing triangles with manaitis and co. 

So this blows your chances of retaining the ball.

Next thing you know, you are mostly chasing the ball as is the norm for this group.

Now if you are chasing the ball,  would you rather have mobile grinders or players with cement shoes?

Anyway, we have tried taxi, with no real significant difference in our play. I'm sure managers appreciate him but in the end, they have to get results and historically what has worked has revolved around grit and being sound defensively. As a result they see more value in playing maniatis and other hacks.

I know it's disappointing and i love that you appreciate good football but do not hold your breath with this group. And that's placing large emphasis on the group, because the individual creative or gifted player(s) falls victim(s) to others in-capabilities.

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Grkcnd22 I was watching my Blue Jays as well as my Ethniki one game on my 60" and one game on my laptop so let these guys talk there nonsense. Apparently they don't follow any other sports teams. You don't owe anyone an explanation.

Edited by J1078
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  • Lazarus unfeatured this topic

guys, even in our golden era greece was always slow. guys like holebas and salpingidis are the exception to the rule.

as long as we get results that's all that matters. greece's strength lies more in actual 'strength', and technical ability.

this is why a guy like cisse can come in and shred defense in superleague cause he has speed, whereas a guy like berbatov struggled more in the superleague.

greece is essentially the strength of the epl and technical ability of italy (although obvious lesser tiers). we generally lack speed and work ethic ala germany and epl.

speed isn't everything, otherwise ivory coast, and nigeria would have some world cup trophies already.

Edited by georgelaz
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misread your meaning then. I thought you were talking mere pace. but ya i'll still stand by my statement of speed of build up play is not the most important thing to get the W as we've proven this past decades. our strengths make up for this weakness

I'm definitely not a soccer expert tho, but that's just my 2 cents and I think it's a good one regardless.

mike loupnikis is slacking on the extended greek highlights. anyone got a good high quality link or source? I wouldn't mind watching the full game either.

Edited by georgelaz
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I know im repeating myself but:
You know what's funny?

The Greek NT has been playing slow football with minimum possession since lik 2002 and suddently just because this didn't happen at a match against Hungary,Netherlands and Romania over the last 3-4 years it's Skibbe fault. We ve only played fast in 3 matches why is everyone taking this for granted? Our football is to give possession and hit on the counter attack. We made 3 successfull counter attacks which ended in 2 goals( well one was gifted but the whole thing was stealing the ball and running up from El Tzavello) and one bad finishing from Mitroglou. Cyprus might be pot 4-5 whateve they are but I don't believe it deflects their efforts and results. They were 1 breath away from reaching Euro Qualification PlayOffs. 

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23 minutes ago, Reaper said:

It is not a tactic to play slow and give away possession. They don't sit round the table and say 'lets slow the pace and give up possession.' Greece gives up position and players slow because of the players selected.  Greece is the only nation on earth that tolerates midfielders walking during a game. 

 

A normal team has centre backs passing the ball forward. Jogging in space while in possession. Greece is the only nation on earth where our CMs act like CBs. Maniatis passes the ball and then stops moving - yelling at other players on where they should be(?). He gives up contributing after he has passed the ball and sits deep where the CBs should be when in possession. The pass and walk routine - while yelling at other players to find space is the job of the CBs - not the CMs. The CMs need to be buzzing around searching for space in the middle - pass and move pass and move - linking play to wingers and creative players. It is really very very simple.

 

Can Greece play fast? Of course it can. Every time we go behind to an unheard of team you see the CMs trying to push forward and move the game forward - something they should be doing automatically - not when we are 0-1 behind. This perverted midfiild culture is learnt behaviour. Katsouranis used to do the same - as did basinas when he lost any little speed he had. A good example of a modern pass and move midfielder was actually Stoltidis. First one to block shots and defend - first one to push forward centrally when in possession to pick up possession in advanced positions. The EPO however didn't agree.

 

 

 

Fortounis Mantalos and flanking Toro/Jolebas have enough fantasy/skill/precission to pass the ball to Mitroglou to score or score a goal themselves. Alongside Bakasetas dog running up and down creating arithmitical advantage both in defence and offence should be enough to press any defence in this group. Yes, even the Belgium defence which is nothing serious can be disorganized a few times by the names i listed. 

So why should our defensive minded and focused players run up and press a weaker side like Cyprus with counterattack mentality? Weaker opposition  means the goal will probably come, so why risk it?

 

Also, let me ask u another thing. Considering the ball from Karnezis I think, which got to Fortounis who with a magic dribble and a good pare vale assist gave it to Mitroglou who shot terribly - was scored. Would we be talking about a totally different game, not only due to the scoreline 3-0 instead of 2-0 but for also how well the team worked on the counter attack? Can someone come out and say we played badly (while defensively we were only threatened twice) if we won 3-0 and that chance was delivered? What happens if Bosnia narrowly wins/draws/even loses from Cyprus? Which has happened before. Do we look at this match from another point of view? Do we talk about a threat we didn't struggly taking the 3 points from?

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Bosnia has always been a bad side despite their beliefs. Their defence is old and easily disorganized, very prone to counter attacks (despite belgium not playing with counterattacks which still beat them 4-0). They were just lucky that Dzeko and Pjanic came in the same period of time, along maybe Spahic and Lulic who are nothing better but can cope with weaker opposition. The only reason we lost vs them at Bosnia 3 years ago is our team not being well organized against set pieces. I think we conceded 2 from set piece and another from a penalty return. We re not at our best, but at the end of the day, Qualifying for the Euro 16 is what mattered, and we both failed. I don't get their fuss. Faroe Islands proved to be a solid weakling by drawing Hungary (Euro R16 participant) and Winning Latvia away.

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That very true Amorgo. Maniatis is a workhorse but isnt creative, whether that be he is not a technical player or is not smart enough. Samaris is more technical and is a smarter footballer. Anyways it makes more sense to have Kyriakos and Tachtsidis. One who can do the dirty work and i believe is the smarter player and one who can distribute the ball fast and efficently and moves into space. 

We see how Maniatis does not get into space and how Stafylidis has not played in the position that many times. I believe Stafylidis is more skillfull and has a better shot than Maniatis and i believe Stafylidis has a place in the team.

Edited by Dean97
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Watched this game, from the second goal on-wards, we pretty much stopped trying to attack. It's like we just seem to do the bare minimum to win a game, that's why you'll never see us produce a big score line. However once Holebas was brought on he desperately tried to inject a bit of fire into our attack. Personally I'd like to see him get a start in a Left Midfield position against Estonia. 

 

All in all had pretty much mixed feelings towards this game couldn't be too happy about a win as I'd also like Cyprus to qualify. But in the present climate a win is golden. 

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