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Should Britain Leave EU?  

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  1. 1. Should Britain Leave EU?


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On the other side, look at who have been voting remain. Middle-class cosmopolitan lefty intellectuals who read the guardian, live in their London bubble, with their Muslim friends in the Labour party.

Yeah, not to mention those uneducated old farts in the midlands and the far north who read the sun and never had seen something else than their little villages far far away from the hotspots of migration. Oh wait...

Well, Cameron really managed to be worse than Chamberlain with today's results. Not only that he got the UK unintentionally out of the EU, but even worse he managed to break apart the UK. Scotland will use the Brexit to get its independence, while Northern Ireland could reunite with Ireland. Wow, I'm not even mad, that's amazing!

I only feel bad for the young people of which 64% voted to remain. To bad their future lies now in tatters, because some short sighted uneducated people filled with hatred and ignorance fall for the lies of Farage and Johnson.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/watch-brexit-lies-unravel-nigel-farage-calls-350m-week-promise-nhs-mistake

Whoops... so much for that. Farewell Britain.

 

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Edited by Klaous
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As far as I know,

1)      Today?s Europe still is the outcome of Ethnic antagonisms.  To argue that England should become a (de facto) province of the United Europe because within the union the English would have superior buying power is not (and was not) a winning argument.

2)      To argue the young against the old is also a bizarre argument.  In a democracy the citizens who can vote are considered to be equal.

3)      A look at the rich in the Ottoman Empire would show that the Christians and the Jews were money-wise better off than the Muslims.  Certainly, they were better off before Mustapha Kemal pasha sent them to the other side of the Aegean.  Why on hell would they act in a way incompatible with their financial interests?

 

No matter where, a good percentage of the low class citizens has come to the conclusion (correct or not) that the rich and the educated are persons of diluted patriotism who have more in common with their equals across the borders and less with their compatriots.  If so, they who cotton to the EU are perceived as foreign to the nation, to its past, to its present, and to its future.

 

Just look, if you wish, at the Tea party and the Trump voters who at first glance appear to vote against their own interests. 

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As far as I know,

1)      Today?s Europe still is the outcome of Ethnic antagonisms.  To argue that England should become a (de facto) province of the United Europe because within the union the English would have superior buying power is not (and was not) a winning argument.

2)      To argue the young against the old is also a bizarre argument.  In a democracy the citizens who can vote are considered to be equal.

3)      A look at the rich in the Ottoman Empire would show that the Christians and the Jews were money-wise better off than the Muslims.  Certainly, they were better off before Mustapha Kemal pasha sent them to the other side of the Aegean.  Why on hell would they act in a way incompatible with their financial interests?

 

No matter where, a good percentage of the low class citizens has come to the conclusion (correct or not) that the rich and the educated are persons of diluted patriotism who have more in common with their equals across the borders and less with their compatriots.  If so, they who cotton to the EU are perceived as foreign to the nation, to its past, to its present, and to its future.

 

Just look, if you wish, at the Tea party and the Trump voters who at first glance appear to vote against their own interests.

Your racist argumentation is just awful. Ethnic antagonism, oh my, do you still live in 1939? You're saying that 48,1% of the British population aren't patriots because they like the EU. So that's what you call democracy??? A huge "minority" like that needs to be respected. Foreigners... yeah, right... it's more like you're blinded by your hate and your nationalistic views.

Btw, no, the youths have every right to be frustrated about this result. They were able to study for free and work all around Europe and now you just say F*** off, we leave and legitimate that by only a small margin of over 50%? Oh right, you're so independent and democratic. I forgot. And that's why you screw with young people and their future. Because of "equality".

I'll tell you what, the Brexit supporters have won. But it's not a decisive victory. Almost half of the British ppopulation are still supporting the EU. You can't just ignore that. And you can't just write them off saying they are no patriots. In fact patriots like 'you' are the ones who have ended the UK with your nationalism. The Scottish independence is just around the corner.

Britain had won the world wars only to become smaller. Now the Brexit has won... and history is going to repeat itself.

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This was the right choice IMO. The whole EU concept is a load of s%$#!.

Ax re filarako, THIS is exactly what I don't like. In the last years it has become totally mainstream to hate the EU and the idea behind it sometimes even with no arguments at all. No offense, but you probably don't even know half of the European members and still you dare to judge.

The mainstream hate just continues. Some arguments are even reasonable, but there's also a lot of racism, populism and nationalism going on, and sometimes it's just pure hate.

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Yeah, not to mention those uneducated old farts in the midlands and the far north who read the sun and never had seen something else than their little villages far far away from the hotspots of migration. Oh wait...

 

 

I've seen a lot of Bremainers come out attacking Brexit voters as less educated (which is true I don't deny), but what is not so easy for them to say is they are simply working-class. They have to admit that this is a class issue. Mocking a group of the electorate for being uneducated, is a subtle form of classism. Yet many middle-class lefties are doing just that. The Working-class feel like the EU, and globalisation probably even more so, have not helped them and I can understand why. While the Labour party is now full of middle-class MPs, many of whom are right-wing Blairites and horribly out of touch with traditional British workers. Labour needs more of its old style politicians like Dennis Skinner, who voted leave and is still in touch with working people.

 

Like it or not, but in a democracy the working-class and uneducated will always have the biggest say, since they are the biggest group. So you better get used to accepting what they want, given they usually decide every election.

 

As someone who didn't really have immigration as the main concern, I do find it odd how people in remote parts of Wales lets say, voted out because of immigration when everyone is white British there. But I guess they are allowed to care about what the rest of the UK looks like as well. Although some places like Boston (the one in Lincolnshire, not US) voted most heavily for leave and it has a massive East-European population. I live in a very white British area of Bristol and it was all remain here.

 

I was also surprised to see that the cities with huge Muslim populations Luton, Bradford and Birmingham all voted out (except London, which is in its own bubble from the rest of England). Will be interesting to see how many of the Muslims and other Asians voted leave, because I doubt any of the Eastern Europeans would of.

Edited by Koro
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As many greek people are suffering , this will most likely make it more difficult where they can

 

go to try and find work in the future .Like everything else there are winners and losers in all situations.

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Exit polls work when you have a stats built up over years of successive elections. It's been, what, 41 years since this kind of referendum happened? Not enough data to make accurate predictions off of.

 

I read something about it, but don't understand the reasoning behind it.  I'll just have to take their (not your) word for it.

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It's interesting seeing all the different views on this historic event.  I for one think England made the right choice.  I'm for a "United States of Europe" if it were implemented properly, but it has not been, and I don't think it ever will be.

 

The current EU structure is fundamentally anti-democratic.  In any member country in the EU, the people have the right via elections to vote out the ruling government.  And this is the way it should be.  With the EU structure, this is not so.  The EU wants to have the authority to govern without the people having the right to vote them out if they are unhappy with them.  The EU structure has also led to the arrogance with which they currently govern.  They do not listen to the people nor care for their view (stick your 70% OXI up your clacker Greek plebs).  Don't get me wrong, the people can be fickle, stupid and down right ignorant but to say "we are your leaders, you do what we say and you can't vote us out EVER", well, I can't handle that.

 

The other problem with the EU is the current bizarre structure where Germany has so much power.  It hasn't really been a "United Europe" for a while now.  It's really a structure where Germany has a lot more say than other nations.

 

I do like the "economic meltdown" stories though.  When you look into them though we are talking best guesses of between 1% to 2% of GDP.  Not a small figure but hardly scorched earth stuff.  What of lowly Greece at 25% of GDP.  Ah, they don't matter anyway ...

 

-1 to Cameron.  Said he wouldn't resign if the vote didn't go his way.  Whatever ...

Edited by Bananas
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Ha, now I am really afraid Reaper!  I find myself agreeing with you 100%.

 

You summed it up well.  It's not that the concept of the project was wrong.  It's that at some point it was hijacked by people that said "this is the direction it's going to go now, we know best".  And they wouldn't listen to other views.  And they can't even be voted out!  Crazy.  You know what is more crazy than the Brexit result ?  The fact that it took so long for a country to tell the technocrats that enough is enough.

 

Interesting times ahead.

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The EU take no notice of referendums, which has been proved time and time again, Boris Johnson says there is no rush to invoke article 50 of the Lisbon treaty and set in motion the UKs exit right away despite Cameron pledging to invoke it immediately should Britain choose to vote out, its funny after a general election a government is formed immediately now Cameron said he'll leave it to his successor and Johnson doesn't seem to be in a rush either.  

 

What will happen now is the media will go into overdrive to scare the population with stories of financial meltdown, old people voting out ruining young people's future etc etc, and in a year or 2 we will be told that concessions have been offered by the EU and to vote on these new terms which will lead to another vote. The EU have no intentions of letting Britain leave despite this result.

 

Another amazing point was that every political party(besides UKIP) were in favour of staying, nearly all major corporations were too as were the unions whose role it is to protect workers from these very same corporations and some of the disgraceful behaviour by so called liberals in the media after the murder of Jo Cox blaming right wing brexit campaigners for their 'rhetoric and vitriol' its amazing people still voted out.

All these economists were for staying in, all these 'independent' think tanks (who if you do any research you'll find receive EU funding - as does the 'impartial' BBC) were warning against brexit even Mark Carney - who as chief of the bank of England his role forbids him from making his opinion public pined in warning against brexit. 

Now Moody's has downgraded Britains credit rating, the very Moody's who gave triple A ratings to toxic assets that caused the collapse in 08 and we're now supposed to take their credit rating seriously as they are 'experts'. 

 

Good on the Brits for voting out, but understand they'll never be allowed to leave, the EU doesn't do democracy. 

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I will make a few points.

A ) Anyone asking for a second referendum is an idiot, there is a better chance the vote will be ignored. 

B ) Using the torygraph or express as a source is pointless, as they have their own agenda

C ) The reason society's intelligence is being questioned is because of the percentage of people who thought this was a proxy on immigration. (Immigration being non EU immigration) .  The UK gov can't control non-eu immigration as it is, a points based system is fanciful in the extreme. The city is F***ed without access to the single market, so the Norway model is the most likely. Other than the European courts having no jurisdiction,  a Brexit in this event becomes largely pointless. 

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One of the most googled questions in UK right now (after the vote!) is: what is the EU?

 

Just goes to show you what ignorant sheep the mass populous of voters are, esp the millennials. 

 

I still can't believe this actually happened. Democracy isn't perfect but it's better than living under EU dictatorship. 

 

Greece is next. Either the EU will get tired of bailing them out or the people will get tired of austerity. One of the two forces is going to tip the balance in favor of Grexit, just of matter of when. 

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According to many news media, Nigel Farrage is a populist, racist, fascist, arrogant dickhead! And I'm assuming all you guys that like him are pretty much aware of what he stands for, correct? Just asking.

 

Because according to me, I agree with them that Nigel Farrage is a populist, racist, fascist, arrogant dickhead that is going to cost the UK dearly (if it's still the UK in 10 years).

 

I'm also assuming that all you Brexiters are following the news and are celebrating the rewards that started pouring in:

UK stripped of final 'AAA' rating and FTSE 350 surrenders

Edited by JimAdams
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According to many news media, Nigel Farrage is a populist, racist, fascist, arrogant dickhead! And I'm assuming all you guys that like him are pretty much aware of what he stands for, correct? Just asking.

 

Because according to me, I agree with them that Nigel Farrage is a populist, racist, fascist, arrogant dickhead that is going to cost the UK dearly (if it's still the UK in 10 years).

 

I'm also assuming that all you Brexiters are following the news and are celebrating the rewards that started pouring in:

UK stripped of final 'AAA' rating and FTSE 350 surrenders

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 Let me know if further downgrades follow in the coming months from those economic gods so I can start stockpiling food.

 

It doesn't much matter whether you respect the way the global financial world works or not. The fact of the matter is that the cost of borrowing and doing business is going to be higher for the UK under such circumstances. In plain English, ordinary folks are going to be asked to contribute millions (or maybe billions) to this surcharge (through the taxes they are paying), when it didn't need to happen (or maybe should I say it's not going to accomplish what was promised. It was never going to.) Their taxes will now go to paying off higher interest rates instead of building schools and fixing roads.

 

 

As for Mr Farage, well he can't 'cost the UK dearly' as he'll never be in power,

Maybe you don't understand the meaning of the word 'power', that's why you use it so loosely. Mr.(dickhead) Farage is a political figure that influences public opinion with his bullcrap. Do you need more?

 

 

I'm gonna enjoy the view from my front row seat, who knows I may even cheer from time to time.

You may do what ever pleases you. If you get tired of cheering, try that ding-a-ling. That will surely please you (I'm talking from personal experience).

Edited by JimAdams
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Im glad someone exposes Farage on this forum. 

Most people in the UK (not including the uneducated people who vote for his party) understand what an a**hole he is.  It's really hilarious for people who don't live in the UK to take this overly romantic view of a racist xenophobe.  Maybe you should look into his attempts to divide society through lies and propaganda... what a great leader.

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