dave Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 :tup: I was very happy to see Giovanni captain in the game against Proodeftiki The only real number 10 is scoring a lot this year :tup: :tup: :tup: A little about the man we call in Greece "o μάγος". In Santos he is known as "Messias" (Messiah) and his fans named themselves "Giovanni's witnesses" – similar to a religion, "Jehovah's witnesses". Back in 1995 when he transferred from Sãocarlense to Santos, Pelé himself paid for the signing, and proclaimed young Giovanni the "new Pelé". At Barcelona he did well under coach Sir Bobby Robson, in two years scoring 5 goals against rivals Real Madrid alone. But he could not get on with new Dutch coach Louis Van Gaal, and this is the what allowed our club to sign him that summer in 1999 for just under 11 million pounds. The rest we all know, outstanding technique, brilliant creativity, lazer precise lobs, and a treasure chest ful of tricks, nutmegs and brilliance, you thought he had the ball ties to a string on his boots or that he could put it anywhere he wanted beyond any obstacle or opponent. HONOURS Club Clube do Remo Campeonato Paraense:1993 FC Barcelona La Liga: 1997–98, 1998–99 Copa del Rey: 1996–97, 1997–98 Supercopa de España: 1996 Supercopa de España Silver Medal: 1997, 1998 UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1996–97 UEFA Super Cup: 1997 Olympiacos Superleague Greece: 1999-00, 2000–01, 2001–02, 2002–03, 2004–05 Greek Cup: 2004–05 Greek Cup Silver Medal: 2000–01, 2001–02, 2003–04 Al-Hilal Saudi Crown Prince Cup: 2006 Prince Faisal Bin Fahad Cup: 2006 Sport Copa do Brasil: 2008 Campeonato Pernambucano: 2008 Santos FC Copa do Brasil: 2010 Campeonato Paulista: 2006, 2010 International Copa America: 1997 FIFA World Cup Silver Medal: 1998 Umbro Cup : 1995 Personal Brazilian Bola de Ouro (Placar): 1995 with Santos Brazilian Bola de Prata (Placar): 1995 with Santos Greek league's top foreign player: 2000 and 2004 with Olympiacos Greek Superleague Top Goalscorer: 2004 with Olympiacos The Golden Greek football Rosters: Decade 2000–2010 wiki peoplepill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOLLYWOOD Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 whats the point of this topic??? ? Giovanni is old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The2ndMouse Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 So him being the top scorer does not say much about our champinship eh !? <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao2gre Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 it doesnt ........he is just a sanmearten..........scores against small teams does nothing against good teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Giovanni still believes that PAO fans have souls (he is doubtful when it comes to mind or judgement) and hopes that in time they will come to understand what good soccer is. Continuing his "Learn what good soccer is" crusade, he just demonstrated how to score beautifully and without breakind a sweat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubes Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 whats the point of this topic??? ;) Giovanni is gay n old Dont be such a misguided fool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 wow the top leading scorer in the greek league and hes called gay which reminds me y isnt a PAO player the top scorer? anyways. hes a good player!! and about the big game thing and not scoring: this is from the 3-0 embarasment we gave u in rizoupoli last year 3' 1-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Since Giovani and I are not intimate, there is not much I could tell about his sexual preferences. Those who are, are free to comment. As for the rest, I note that accordinng to Eleytherotypia: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proedros Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 POIOS EINAI O MEGALITEROS PAIKTIS POU EXEI PERASEI APO TO ELLINIKO PROTATHLIMA??? ANAFIMSBITITA O GIO...... GIATI....... 1. EINAI O MONOS KSENOS POU EXEI ERTHEI APO MIA TOSO MEGALI OMADA SAN TI MPARTSA KAI ITAN BASIKOS EPI DIOMISI XRONIA... 2. EINAI O PIO FANTESI PAIKTIS POU EXEI PERASEI ADIAFISBITITA... 3. EINAI O PROTOS I DEYTEROS SCORER TOU OLYMPIAKOU STO GHAMPIONS LEAGUE. 4. AN KAI AGONIZETAI STO ELLINIKO PROTATHLIMA TOU EDOSE TIN EUKAIRIA O PROPONITIS TIS ETHNIKIS BRAZILIAS KAI TON KALESE ESTO KAI SE FILIKA PRIN TO MUNDIAL 5. PAIKTES SAN TO RIVALDO IPOKLINONTE STO TALENTO KAI TIN AKSIA TOU(GNOSTO TO EPISODIO TOU PANIGIRISMOU SE GOAL TOU POU EBGALE TI FANELA TOU KAI APO KATO FOROUSE AYTI TOU GIO) 6. DE XANETAI STA DERBY KAI SCORAREI KATA BOULISI KATA AEK KAI PAO 7. EIJNAI O MONADIKOS KSENOS POU EXEI RIZOSEI STO LIMANI KAI EKTOS APO TI LAIKI APAITISI NA MEINEI EINAI EPITHIMMIA KAI TOU SOKRATI. 8. KAI TELOS MOIAZEI O ANTHROPOS SAN NA EXEI GENITHEI STA KAMINIA KAI NA EINAI PIO GAYROS KAI APO MENA. GIO THA SE THIMOMASTE GIA PANTA ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The2ndMouse Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 POIOS EINAI O MEGALITEROS PAIKTIS POU EXEI PERASEI APO TO ELLINIKO PROTATHLIMA??? ANAFIMSBITITA O GIO...... E OOOOOOOOOOXIIIIIIIII REEEEEEEEE! :lol: :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilmanrok Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Nice. Giovanni kicks ass. Ok. Let's go with that for a while. How come Giovanni is -- statistically proven to be -- indeed a sack of potatoes away in Europe (yes, whenever and wherever it really counts to have a superstar like him)? Now, I wouldn't dare criticize one of the most skilled players in Greece, but, to answer just a few questions posed. 1. He can't sprint. 2. Has no sense of pressing the opponent's defenders in order to break down their game. And in an age where speed and pressure is of the utmost importance in tactical soccer, Giovanni is -- quite sadly -- like a fish out of water. People, he's from Brazil. Anybody seen Denilson play? He can dribble past half the Greek league in one run. So what? Can he actually perform in a tactical game? No. So where does he play? Do managers fight over him? Nope. They don't. End of story. That being said, I'd just die to have Giovanni or even a player with half his skill in PAO. By the way, I hope everyone's noticed that this is his best season in Greece so far and that -- most importantly -- he's helped Castillo tremendously in becoming a great talent. In other words, I think OSFP should do whatever possible to keep him, and I think that together with a good striker (not Kouzba, not Choutos, not Tatsis), they can perform wonders, provided OSFP's midfield performs decently. In Europe though, that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 How come Giovanni is -- statistically proven to be -- indeed a sack of potatoes away in Europe (yes, whenever and wherever it really counts to have a superstar like him)? I am afraid that nothing is really proven. Soccer is a team sport and at a high level a team scores against another. Gio might have fared better in Europe if the rest of the team was of European caliber, which it is not. But let me go a bit beyond. Rinus Michels speaking of 1972 Barcelona stated that he had to get rid of several players with excellent skills because they did not fit his system. According to him, they were the stars of yesterday and were made obsolete in the new system. So there we have another paradox. A player that team A considers expendable, another one may consider valuable (see also Traianos Dellas). Therefore, it can be argued that Giovani does not fit the style of play of OSFP (what style?) it can be argued that at times he does spectacular things but in the process destroys the team's cohesion, it can be argued that top-level soccer requires speed and stamina, not only technique. But it is a thankless task to argue if he is good or not based on how well or badly the team does. Soccer is a team sport and often the team is not the sum total of its parts. A player like Tsiartas may be wonderful (he has been pretty good up to now) but I believe that a second Tsiartas in the AEK squad would not improve the team. So, if OSFP were as normal team, with a normal coach, in a normal league we would not be arguing if he is good, bad, or indiferent but rather how well he fits in the team and who might replace him. As none of these preconditions is satisfied, let us enjoy what he does well and pray that in time things might change. Let me end with a non-soccer soccer story. In the middle ages, a famous couple sought to have its marriage annulled because they could not have progeny. The husband and his family suggested that something was wrong with the wife. The wife and her family returned the compliment. After the annulment they remarried (new partners). He proceeded to have 11 children, she on the other hand had only 17. Demonstrating that some of the time the results are not there and noone in particular is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 The man is a forward who refuses to enter the penalty area! Olympiakos' midfielders get past him to score! He is an embarassment to Greek football! He has somehow missed the last 60 years of football's development! If ever there has been a useless thread, this has got to be it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 If ever there has been a useless thread, this has got to be it!!! When did it become useless? Before you posted or after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted February 2, 2004 Author Share Posted February 2, 2004 GoBekli i think it's impossible to speak with a man that says "Giovanni is gay" or "He is a forward that refuse to enter the penalty area"! Don't you think? I agree with you GoBekli, i think Giovanni is a magician, this year he is also top scorer, he is a perfect partner for the young Castillo, i know that it's not so fast, but he is the best player of the champioship if we speak of his techincal capacities, he played in Barcellona, Santos, Brasilian national team (YES IN THE BRASILIAN NATIONAL TEAM AND HE SCORED ALSO 7 GOALS), in 1996-1997 he made a lot of assists for Ronaldo in Barcellona, than he made a very strong double with Rivaldo, but i think that the members that attack Giovanni didn't follow his career. When he came to Greece he was playing very well then there was the injury gainst Iraklis, but this year i see the same Giovanni as the beginning of 1999-2000. I know that in Europe it's very difficult for Olympiakos and also for Giovanni, but with Barcelona he won a "Coppa delle coppe" and he made a lot of goal in Champions League Until this round there are 15 goals for Giovanni, yes 15 goals, if you want to count how many points he gave to Olympiakos...... GIOVANNI SILVA DE OLIVEIRA THE BEST :tup: :tup: :tup: And.......I want to say also.......HAPPY BIRTHDAY GIOVANNI (4-2-1972) All your fans want to thank you for the emotions you're giving :D See you soon :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilmanrok Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Gobekli, you're right. No, you are. Really. What I'm trying to point out is not how Giovanni is worthless or anything like that. What I'm trying to point out is that modern European soccer is much more about stamina and strength and speed. This stands for Greek and European soccer alike. The difference is the level of this development. In greek soccer, a team like OSFP can win 7 titles in a row by employing an anarchistic, chaotic style of play (which is very beautiful by the way), whereas in Europe, the same team would be destroyed in case it dared to do so (well, not really true, but most of the times...) So, what I was trying to demonstrate is that Giovanni is perfect for Greek soccer, and for leagues like ours, but he really can't help that much in Europe. However, this doesn't mean that if Giovanni was playing for a stronger, more cohesive side, a side that would dominate each game, perhaps Giovanni would be perfect. But, consider this. OSFP and PAO, as well as every other greek team are the Davids, not the Goliaths of European soccer. And so for most of their games, they're forced to sit back and defend and break hard on the counter. This makes Giovanni and his talents somewhat obsolete. A player like Ogunsoto, or Olisadebe however are ideal for such a tactic. Don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted February 2, 2004 Author Share Posted February 2, 2004 Giovanni played for a very strong team , Barcellona 1996-1999, he won 2 Liga, he played a lot of games in the start 11, and won a lot of others cup(also in Europe as SuperCup against Borussia Dortumnd with a goal in the return final), then he played in Olympiakos and we know the titles of the team... He is adapt to both the kind of team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go:bekli Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dave, Thank you for your kind words and for your enthusiasm. Bear in mind though that most of the time we are forced to talk with those who disagree with us. In particular, you should be more generous with Irlandos who has drunk, I am afraid, colossal quantities of bad beer and has lost his taste for the finer things in life, including Barolo, Brunello di Montalcino and, you guessed it, Giovani. Un vero Tedesco di Germania! Kilmanrok, we are in violent agreement. The PAO win against Ajax in Amsterdam is a perfect example of how to beat a stronger opponent. Bear in mind though that the corollary of the theorem I pelted Dave with implies that people who agree have relatively little to talk about! I can already see the oracion at the funeral of Phantis: All of a sudden everyone became reasonable, arguments ceased and along with them all semblance of life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 (edited) as i would hate to say, technically, giovanni is a very good player, he has experience with barcelona and unfortunatly, is one of the most technically skilled players in greece...there are many things that you can say supporting, or disproving that he is a good player, this is all opinion...some may think he is a magician, some may think he is horrible..in comaprson to olymiakos and greek football, there is a structure in the way their football is played and no, giovanni does not fit that strucutre...but this is not a bad thing, sometimes it may not be good, but to have a strong team, you need players that have different strengths and weaknesses...as giovanni does, he has many good qualities, and poor qualities as every footballer does...to say he is a horrendous player is very very unreasonable, but to say he is the best overall player in greece is very unreasonalbe too...in the end, he canput the ball in the back of the net, which can only help a team... Edited February 3, 2004 by pao123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilmanrok Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Well, it depends by what you consider as an "argument". Being in a de facto, a priori argument with someone, well, I don't see how this adds up to the livelihood of a forum. Disagreeing in everything by default, you see, takes away the pleasure of arguing about the finer things in life. Those that actually allow people to progress. So you see, it's kind of important for me to not be in a violent argument with anyone, unless I think it's actually useful -- or entertaining -- to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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