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Check out this great interview with Michael Valkanis - our assistant coach https://hellasfooty.blogspot.com/2020/01/q-with-ethniki-omada-assistant-coach.html?m=1&fbclid=IwAR3HJ2ELKQGEtB2UQYju

Bringing in Greek former players from EURO 2004 championship team is a brilliant idea! They know something about a winning culture! 

Angelos and his assistant Angelos (Basinas) were on total football over the weekend. Some interesting topics covered, worth a watch. The ethniki chat starts just before the 17 minute mark.  https://w

You can't call out the coach in public on bringing in players who may have had a falling out.  It is in a way, going against the current staff. Obviously he moved on to a different direction, not up to a player to change that. If he feels that way, say it privately. 

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12 hours ago, J1078 said:

Lots of drama with the NT. JVS told Sivas he is done from the NT after his comments after the Kosovo game. he will not be called up again. He also spoke about Socratis and Manolas who are done as well. So now Siovas, Manolas, Socratris are all DONE from the NT for good. Check out the article below.

 

https://www.sport24.gr/Columns/Diamantopoulos/thn-kanate-reality.5754877.html

So be it,  back the coach!

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11 hours ago, Dean97 said:

Let’s not ignore that the EPO could possibly be involved in these decisions and call ups. Manolas and Sokratis have always been suspicious about the EPO when they previously said to Grammenos “it’s either us or him”. This comment alone could be the reason they’ve been banished from the team. 
 

It’s hard to know 100% who makes the calls the EPO or Van’t Schip. If If I can remind some of us Van’t Schip first games in charge had Manolas and Sokratis in the starting line up. After the debacle with Lichtenstein they got dropped along with the others. 

In past when he said that no one is excluded from the team and that everyone is welcome doesn’t make sense. Manolas and Sokratis want to be part of the team but their past comments are the reason as to why they are not welcome anymore. It could disrupt things if the were to come back. 

Now Siovas has joined Manolas and Sokratis in the excluded players list. He made the right decision but at least be upfront about why you excluded Sokratis and Manolas in the first place. He was being honest as to saying Siovas broke the rules by mentioning the coaches decisions. They’ve been excluded for the same reason Siovas is being excluded now. By him not being upfront about it makes it seem more suspect.
 

 

Nothing suss about it Deano, its well known knows that Sok and Manol gasbag about everyone except themselves about being s%$#!, that previous culture.

Those two in defence continuously produced rubbish against the minnows and that was more than enough to drop them and Siovas and Mitro.

We have the Greek Messi now: LIMNIOS baby!!

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Lmao STOP with that "they lost to X/Y/Z opponent, they tied X/Y/Z opponent. Stafylidis was also a part of this team. So were Fortounis, Kourmpelis, Mantalos, Mpakasetas any many more. What about them, why they are still in the team?

Or you just forgot with those 2 in the back we were a penalty kick away from the quarter finals of the World cup?

Unfortunately more than half of you leave abroad and you miss everything about this clown in the bench who has been advised to call up Aek and Paok players so they boost up their value and make it easier to earn a transfer, because their teams are unable to do it through European competitions in club level where they are totally unknown.

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By the way Stafylidis had another awful season and we have far better players than him in his position but for some weird reason he is still around as a centre back? Been waiting for the moment the coach starts him against a half decent striker.

The last time he did that against Pukki of Finland, he gifted them a goal trying to dribble(!) him.

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11 hours ago, Dean97 said:

It’s hard to know 100% who makes the calls the EPO or Van’t Schip. If If I can remind some of us Van’t Schip first games in charge had Manolas and Sokratis in the starting line up. After the debacle with Lichtenstein they got dropped along with the others. 

In past when he said that no one is excluded from the team and that everyone is welcome doesn’t make sense. Manolas and Sokratis want to be part of the team but their past comments are the reason as to why they are not welcome anymore. It could disrupt things if the were to come back. 

Now Siovas has joined Manolas and Sokratis in the excluded players list. He made the right decision but at least be upfront about why you excluded Sokratis and Manolas in the first place. He was being honest as to saying Siovas broke the rules by mentioning the coaches decisions. They’ve been excluded for the same reason Siovas is being excluded now. By him not being upfront about it makes it seem more suspect.

If you're waiting for JVS to come out and tell the media why Manolas and Sokratis have been dropped you'll be waiting a while.  There is no benefit to him to burn the bridge.  Yes, the bridge is broken but who knows, maybe Manolas might be called back one day.  If JVS comes out and says "People in the NT camp told me he's an idiot" then it's all over for good.

People can choose to believe EPO sells caps.  I don't see JVS as the type to play that game.  Do you ?

It's important to note where JVS comes from.  A country that for many years had a squad good enough to reach the semi finals, and with a little luck, win every major tournament.  The Dutch had phenomenal players and talents.  And yet, they are up there for having problems with players and egos.  The Dutch knows all about players that are toxic.  And I'm sure he didn't want to start his new role on a bad footing.  He'd rather do it his way - and fail if need be - then pick players based on what team they play for.

Heck, it's easy to pick the NT based on which clubs players play for.  I can do it, you can do it, we can all do it - like in any video game.  Actually getting the players to do what you want, that's the hard part.  We forget that these players are human.  They are on big money, they think their cock is 6 feet long, and then this no name coach from wherever rocks up and they're looking at him thinking "who is this stooge".  That's just how it is.  And then the manager has to somehow convince the players he's the right man to steer the ship.  And get them to do his bidding.  So far he's done well.  But then you get Siovas coming out and saying, essentially, "he could make better selections" and "my koumbaro should be in the team" and the worst part "that guy you paired me with, he's ok, but I don't really rate him".  How to be an idiot 101.

What is JVS to do ?  He has to axe Siovas.  Siovas left him no choice.  I simply think that Siovas didn't realise what he was saying at the time.  Anyway, Siovas is 32 years old now.  It would've been good if he was in the team (he is a good player) but now it's time to hang them up.

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9 minutes ago, Boxou said:

By the way Stafylidis had another awful season and we have far better players than him in his position but for some weird reason he is still around as a centre back? Been waiting for the moment the coach starts him against a half decent striker.

The last time he did that against Pukki of Finland, he gifted them a goal trying to dribble(!) him.

Agree with you about Stafylidis.  I don't believe any player should be selected when they aren't match fit.  And he hasn't played in a year or so.

As for your love affair with Manolas and Sokratis - what don't you get ?  They cause problems in the team.  Have you not played sport where they is a guy who is better than everyone else, but is an a---hole ?  How did it turn out ?

AEK PAOK conspiracy - what can I say.  The truth comes out.

I would be happy for Fortounis to start for the NT, but the kid is still lacking.  He's a luxury player who doesn't run (read others have to cover for him) and slows the game down (doesn't suit the current system) and plays in patches.  In short, a bench option when you need to crack open a stubborn defence.

Masouras is good, but right now he's fighting with Limnios for the same position.  A good thing really.

Bouchalakis, meh, he's ok.

Tsimikas, I'm sure he'll be called up soon enough.

Anyone else ?

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Agree with everything Bananas has said, very well put mate!

Especially on the point about Siovas commenting on Svarnas. You can't do that to anyone, not publicly the kid is 22 years old and regardless of how good or bad you think he is you don't question his ability in public.

Siovas at 32 was one of the only leaders left and could have played a big part in World Cup qualifying but he instead spoke out like a brash child and put a teammate down because his koumbaro isn't being selected. For that good riddance. 

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14 minutes ago, paokarag4 said:

Agree with everything Bananas has said, very well put mate!

Especially on the point about Siovas commenting on Svarnas. You can't do that to anyone, not publicly the kid is 22 years old and regardless of how good or bad you think he is you don't question his ability in public.

Siovas at 32 was one of the only leaders left and could have played a big part in World Cup qualifying but he instead spoke out like a brash child and put a teammate down because his koumbaro isn't being selected. For that good riddance. 

Him and his koumbaro will get good tickets to watch the ethniki.

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37 minutes ago, paokarag4 said:

Especially on the point about Siovas commenting on Svarnas. You can't do that to anyone, not publicly the kid is 22 years old and regardless of how good or bad you think he is you don't question his ability in public.

Tell me about it!  Everyone is going on about the comments from Siovas regarding Manolas.  When I read them I just thought "pfft typical" but then when I read the comments from Siovas regarding Svarnas, I was floored.  Siovas said what!!!

Why don't you just get a shot gun and kill the kid while you're at it.  Worse case scenario, you just shot the kids confidence.  Best case scenario, if he's got a strong character, he thinks of Siovas "go f--k yourself papara".  Either way, how do you expect these two to play together.

I can see it now ... Siovas loses his man ... I can cover him but you know what, the prick bad mouthed me, thinks I'm not good enough, and now I'm gonna cover his ass.  Nah don't think so.  Eat a goal and let the media eat him alive.  And that's the human condition.  If you think players don't think this way, you don't know football.

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I agree Siovas shouldn’t of said what he said about Svarnas. Uncalled for. What Siovas said about Manolas isn’t wrong. Manolas is the best Greek CB we have. You can’t argue that. But he has an ego and a difficult personality and that is no good for the team. Your not above the team. No one is. 

Whenever Van’t Schip has been asked about Sokratis and Manolas he always goes on about how you have to want to play for the national team. He’s never said they have bad attitudes or they’ve broken the rules - (like how he has said with Siovas). So something says there’s still a chance for them to return. I guess it’s up to them to start crawling back which I don’t think they will do. 

I think Siovas could be given a 2nd chance in the future if he wants to make amends or adhere to the coaches plans. But it does seem as though these players are out for good. 

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You don't think Anastasiadis was going to get sacked after the Armenia loss? He was a dead man walking, Sokratis and Manolas didn't have to lead a mutiny, he was done.   

As for Fortounis he's been magical, off the bench. Olympiakos won the title and had a deep run in Europe with him being injured and occasionally pinch hitting off the bench. It seems Martins and Van't Schip think alike and think he's lack of running is detrimental in modern football where teams must press, especially in the front half. 

 

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One thing I do remember about that clown of a coach was that the media were pretty hyped he was going to bring discpline :howler: to the team and that his wonderful coaching won a point for us against Bosnia? lmao

Fortounis is a quality player that can hold the ball, create and score goals and shouldn't even be compared with the likes of Mantalos or Pelkas.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It seems the media are really piling the pressure onto JVS, wanting him gone IMO. They are questioning Fortounis trying to get him to speak out against the coach to add more fuel to the fire. I think Fortounis handled himself well and didn't speak out of turn at all, I would be surprised if JVS has any issues with what he said.  

Now we have Manolas chiming in and obviously he's not happy with JVS. It seems to me a matter of a time before he's chased out, which at this point would be the wrong move. Again Van't Schip isn't Klopp or Pep but he has modernized the ethniki, before he came on board our players looked like they had never been pressed before and couldn't cope with the likes of Armenia pressing them. He has his flaws, he does things I don't agree with but I'm comfortable in saying he's our best manager since Santos (not a lot of competition I know but still) 

Basically he must win the last 2 matches in the Nations league and make sure we top the group. If we don't the pressure will be enormous and I think he may walk. I would keep him regardless of where we finish in the NL, I want him leading us into World Cup Qualifying. 

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2 hours ago, paokarag4 said:

It seems the media are really piling the pressure onto JVS, wanting him gone IMO. They are questioning Fortounis trying to get him to speak out against the coach to add more fuel to the fire. I think Fortounis handled himself well and didn't speak out of turn at all, I would be surprised if JVS has any issues with what he said.  

Now we have Manolas chiming in and obviously he's not happy with JVS. It seems to me a matter of a time before he's chased out, which at this point would be the wrong move. Again Van't Schip isn't Klopp or Pep but he has modernized the ethniki, before he came on board our players looked like they had never been pressed before and couldn't cope with the likes of Armenia pressing them. He has his flaws, he does things I don't agree with but I'm comfortable in saying he's our best manager since Santos (not a lot of competition I know but still) 

Basically he must win the last 2 matches in the Nations league and make sure we top the group. If we don't the pressure will be enormous and I think he may walk. I would keep him regardless of where we finish in the NL, I want him leading us into World Cup Qualifying. 

When we start saying things like I don’t agree with what he’s doing then you know it’s not going to end well, especially for JVS. He’s doing some dumb things Skibbe was doing. Comparing the 2 managers no one is better than the other. My first feeling of him getting the job was a bad one and that feeling may end up proving me right. Something tells me EPO have something to do with it also.

Limnios has been our best player since he’s taken over. He in large part is the reason we look more modern in our playing style. Without him how do you think we would look? Just like before he was in charge in my opinion. Limnios is the reason for anything positive.

Think about it Mantalos is not any good at LW and always tries to play central. Bakasetas has most of the time ruined our attack because of his poor touch and lack of vision and also his slowness. Pavlidis is the doing the best he can but isn’t getting the right service due to Zeca and Kourbelis not being able to be imaginative. 

Giannoulis is the other bright spot in this team. In my opinion we should:

1. Find a new RB. Someone who is capable in defence and attack. We should look at Giannis Masouras who plays regularly in Poland.

2. Find a better paring then Svarnas and Stafylidis at CB. I don’t think Svarnas is better than Mavropanos, Retsos and Hatzidiakos. No need to explain the reason why Stafylidis needs to be replaced. We all know why...

3. Drop Bakasetas entirely and bench Mantalos for a few games. That would open up a spot for an actual LW and CAM. I’d go with Fortounis and Chatzigiovanis (I’m curious to see what he’s got)

4. Lastly and most importantly in my opinion find a box to box number 8 next to one of Bouchalakis/Kourbelis/Zeca. We should look at Siopis, Galanopoulos, Vasiliadis and possibly Mantalos for that role. Someone who works hard but also has good ball skills, great vision with good passing also.

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@Dean97 I think JVS can and should take some of the credit for how Limnios has developed and how he has played for the NT. I watched Limnios week in week out for PAOK and he plays far better for the NT than he generally did for PAOK (he did have his moments) I think JVS has given him a lot of confidence and has told him "You're the man, I believe in you and you have a massive part to play for the Greek National Team moving forward."

You're gripes with his player selections are justified (some of them) but he has implemented a playing style that is sustainable and has allowed us to boss and dominate teams that we were previously struggling to retain possession against, let alone beat. For that he deserves credit. 

Mavropanos is injured again and out until the new year, he played once for Stuttgart before his body broke down again. Retsos played his first game overnight for Saint-Etienne and I'm fairly confident if he stays fit and plays the next couple of games he'll be called up for the November games. 

Masouras plays in Poland he won't get a look in, Poland's league is far worse than Greece where he has only played for teams battling relegation. Bakakis is the best right back we have currently and that's not good. Rota should've been given more playing time and if he's not trusted then he shouldn't be called up, simple. 

Siopis is another destroyer with limited ability on the ball like Zeca and Kourbelis, he won't solve our problems in midfield. Galanopoulos JVS has stated he rates, he's not playing with AEK atm since returning from injury and resolving a contract feud. 

It's all good and well to throw the names out there but there is legitimate reasons as to why 90% of the names you mentioned aren't selected. I don't think it's a conspiracy personally, but that's just me. 

Fortounis v Bakasetas is an interesting debate, I've maintained all along the NT would improve immensely from Fortounis and someone like Donis (who too has hardly played this season) buying into the system and pressing the opposition. As it stands those players don't do that, Baka and Mantalos do. So JVS sacrifices talent for guys who will allow us to play his way, you need a balance and this is probably the key thing on pitch that he needs to sort out. 

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@paokarag4you make some good point but I disagree with some things. The team is not playing like they did at the end of last year. We looked like we struggled for ideas in the final third in all the games we have played so far. He deserves some credit in regards to the team regaining possession and giving Limnios loads of confidence.

To me Fortounis v Bakasetas shouldn’t be debatable. Clearly Bakasetas has a problem with his touch and vision. Plus he’s a slow player and when it comes time to play the likes of Belgium, Spain and even Austria I see him being non existent due to his limitations. Fortounis on the other hand has way more creativity and technique. He doesn’t work as hard off the ball but he is by far our most creative and talented player. There’s no denying that. I don’t see Bakasetas scoring the way he did against Austria.

Truth is we are not going dominate possession against better teams. We haven’t got enough quality especially at CM. As I said before it’s all well and good to have possession but it’s what you do with it that counts and with some players selections I think we are sabotaging our chances of scoring. I don’t blame the strikers for lack of goals. 

It seems like every NT manager we’ve had likes to play Mantalos outwide. It just doesn’t work. He’s not a pure winger. He plays more of a left attacking mid, instead of a left winger. We need a proper left winger no doubt. I’d be tempted to play Pelkas on the left because of his speed and agility but he again is not a winger. Chatzigiovannis, Lamprou and Masouras should be considered. All 3 deserve a proper chance. Chatzigiovannis was in good form last season but hasn’t had the chance to prove himself yet for Greece. Same with Lamprou. 

Regarding your comment about pressing. It’s not that difficult to ask players to press, they should just go out there and do it. Having Bakasetas there to press means nothing when he’s not fast enough or smart enough to make something happen in attack. 

We’ve backed ourselves into a corner now because now we have to win the remaining 2 games. Van’t Schip sabotaged the team I believe against Kosovo with his player selections and decisions. Also I don’t think we are giving ourselves the best chance possible to succeed and show our true potential as a team. 

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