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I see you talk about the British very positively aek66. I however view Britain back then as little better than thieves and colonial oppressors.

 

For me no one has helped Greece that significantly, I know Russia, France and Britain sent over a few ships during the civil war to blow up some Egyptians, but that was a long time ago and all three of those countries have changed a lot.

 

The EU is only concerned about the $$$, Britain likewise and David Cameron even wants Turkey to join the EU, the USA armed Turkey's invasion of Cyprus, Serbia is just mental war criminals bullied by Clinton and Blair and are always supporting their fellow Slavs in FYROM first. Russia has regressed under Putin's mafia-Jew run capitalism and even as the USSR was pretty frosty. Having said that Greece and Russia has had relatively friendly relations in terms of trade and arms, when you consider Greece is in NATO.

Edited by Koro
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Media sensationalism should not create political opinions, but unfortunately is does.

well its worked in your case lazarus, the anti russian western media sensationalism has made you believe that russia could possibly annex a greek island if greece should allow them to have a base on one. 

 

 

Yes, it's a war of words, and public opinion is key. However I don't see us helping ourselves with electing a leader like Tsipras heading a party like SYRIZA.  They are in shambles and don't even have a unified political position. Let's not blame others for our inability to function as a nation. Let's not blame others for the fact the we do not have political leaders capable of carrying Greece out of this hole that was dug by our own corrupt politicians. We (the Greeks) have to find the will to get through and decide what it is that we want as a people. (Then we can start blaming the ...Germans   :box: )

fair point but if greece has had corrupt politicians for the last 30-40 years, politicians who are incompetent and have put their country in the mess its in then why would you expect greeks to elect the same rubbish again, SYRIZA in their eyes was their only hope, did you expect people to vote for the same establishment pro EU parties that have failed them for the last few decades?? they've had enough, but if they don't leave the euro and the EU they will always be dictated to and be indebted to the EU.

 

 

The fact is that Crimea was a part of Ukraine after 1954. Epirus incorporated into Greece after the First Balkan War of 1912?1913. Do you think Albanians can justifiably lay claim on Epirus?

i thought the people of crimea unanimously voted to become part of russia, like the people of montenegro did when they wanted independence. the serbs in kosovo didn't have that luxury though, nor did the inhabitants of diego garcia but us in the west pick and choose what we decide should be called annexation based on what suits us at the time. 

 

by the way i'm very pro freedom of speech but if this retired army general had said this about jews or africans and not russians, what consequences would he face??

Edited by js1000
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'dictated to by EU'...see CHE's post for clarity on this...

 

to think that we can be some mini self sufficient super power is absurd....we have major issues within our own system....

 

we can not create jobs or a fertile environment for growth...syriza will ideologically be worse for this...

 

do the other Europeans see the EU as 'oppressors" ...why is it always greeks crying wolf?

 

no one has ever benefited from Russia...look at how the rest of the Eastern  Euros feel about Russia...the ones that had strong ties for decades....

 

Greeks are just simply looking for an easy way out and to appoint blame to the nasty 'capitalists'.

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i thought the people of crimea unanimously voted to become part of russia, like the people of montenegro did when they wanted independence.

 

They most certainly did not. Those who were allowed to vote, however, were definitely overwhelmingly in support of it. Funny how that turns out.

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One of Greece's biggest problems is that we import TWICE as much as we export.

And who is to blame?

Who had our peaches and other fruits rotting away at homateres whilst northern countries were exporting jams and marmalades?

Who have all the farmers in Drama and Xanthi idle when they used to export tobacco?

Who sets up these arbitrary rules on exports, assigning to themselves to lion's share and leaving us with next-to-nothing?

Who is benefiting from the lack of protection of our industries and products?

Exactly!

Kowtow all you want to Europe, tell them how grateful you are when it is they that are benefiting at our expense!

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- when i read "what has the eu done for us?", then i stop reading. since greece's membership in the eu club, the eu has given greece apprx. 270 Billion euro in subsidies. that is free money. some of it ended up building highways and bridges, some ended up in private bank acocunts. yes, greece takes more than it gives...which is a top complaint (not only greece, but most poorer eu nations) from anti-eu politcians in richer eu states.

there's no such thing as free money, hence the reason we're in so much 'debt' are you suggesting without EU help we wouldn't have bridges and highways? the EU has  never had its accounts signed off by auditors, its as bent and corrupt as the pro EU leaders we've had leading greece over the last few decades. its driven up prices in eastern europe and flooded western europe with cheap labour driving down wages. 

 

to think that we can be some mini self sufficient super power is absurd....we have major issues within our own system....

we can not create jobs or a fertile environment for growth...syriza will ideologically be worse for this...

no one said anything about being a superpower but that doesn't mean we can't come out of the EU and decide who we choose to trade with, we cannot create jobs you say but at present the troika demand we CUT jobs and services under their austerity measures.

and as irlandos has so eloquently put it, its EU laws/rules etc that have made countries dependent on one another, they don't want self sufficiency just dependance, so they can go on dictating how you run your own country.

 

 

do the other Europeans see the EU as 'oppressors" ...why is it always greeks crying wolf?

the irish the portuguese the italians the spanish and cypriots are the most obvious examples of people continually protesting against the EU. the leadership in hungary and czech republic have also been fairly outspoken against the EUs stance on the russia ukraine conflict.

 

 

no one has ever benefited from Russia...look at how the rest of the Eastern  Euros feel about Russia...the ones that had strong ties for decades....

i'm not sure anyone's benefited from the EU or from the US. look at how most of the world feel about the US.

 

 

Greeks are just simply looking for an easy way out and to appoint blame to the nasty 'capitalists'.

no, they are blaming the banking racket not the capitalists, in a capitalist system failed businesses(banks) do not get bailed out using public funds, which puts governments in debt who in turn look to fleece working people through higher taxes and austerity in order to pay back what has become a national debt. 

 

 

i thought the people of crimea unanimously voted to become part of russia, like the people of montenegro did when they wanted independence.

 

They most certainly did not. Those who were allowed to vote, however, were definitely overwhelmingly in support of it. Funny how that turns out.

interesting, how many ukranians voted for their current leader?? the west didn't like the democratically elected leader of ukraine so we imposed our own man. meddling in the affairs of yet another country like the US have done all over latin america. look how that's turned out high inflation in ukraine a currency thats lost a lot of its value and poreshenko going cap in hand for loans. yet we want to question the authenticity of the crimean vote because it didn't go our way.

Edited by js1000
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And who is to blame?

Who had our peaches and other fruits rotting away at homateres whilst northern countries were exporting jams and marmalades?

Who have all the farmers in Drama and Xanthi idle when they used to export tobacco?

Who sets up these arbitrary rules on exports, assigning to themselves to lion's share and leaving us with next-to-nothing?

Who is benefiting from the lack of protection of our industries and products?

Exactly!

Kowtow all you want to Europe, tell them how grateful you are when it is they that are benefiting at our expense!

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You can only play one superpower off against the other from a position of strength. If you are weak and offer nothing but problems then you are disrespected and constantly humiliated.

Unfortunately that is the reality for Greece.

The economy and investment is the way to resolve this and the only way to do this is to be fully committed to the west.

Every country looks after their own interests. Doesn't make them bad. It's just the reality.

The world is just an oversized school playground. You have your big talking bullies, the kids that crawl around them and look to them for protection

You also have the kids that keep themselves out of all that rubbish and concentrate on school work and improving themselves. They are always respected. They might get picked on occasionally but they deal with it.

Greece at the moment is one of the kids crawling around the bullies. It is not nice to see.

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Unfortunately peaches, strawberries, marmalades are irrelevant.  We have no industries.  We don't make cars or machinery or medicine or technology or even bicycles.  Exporting fruits is stuff third world countries do.  We are a third world country being propped by Europe.

Serious question. Why don't we have industries ? In terms of wages we would have a massive edge.

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We do have industries. We make chemicals and buses for instance and even made cars in the past, that they are trying to bring back (Poni). Aside from corruption, I think the two biggest obstacles have been the way of life in Greece and Unions.

 

By way of life I mean the way that cities like Athens have drained the general population. For decades thousands and thousands of Greeks have been flocking to Athens in an effort to get a public sector job and pretty much be set for life. This has drained the outer cities and industries. 

 

Unions have held Greece back big time. Things like upgrading computer systems and making the entire system more efficient,  exposes some of their obsolete members and interferes with their interests. When government subsidies run out they cause even more damage to the economy. In general the unions in Greece have too much power and so they keep a lot of investors away. 

 

I had a friend who worked for infoQuest a few years back. InfoQuest (if its still around) was a Greek IT computer hardware and software company. He told me that one day he walked into one of their storage facilities and in the facilities he witnessed thousands of square meters of broken and faulty computers. He asked one of his coworkers who had been working there longer what all these computers were. Basically they would get government subsidies/support, as well as investments from private entities, as well as public offerings (stock), and with that money buy faulty or broken computers, mark them down as new, and pretty much pocket the difference. Little schemes like these show the state of Greek industries and how they were able to destroy companies like Olympic Airlines and OTE

Edited by CHE21QNS
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to be honest, i don't understand the meaning/purpose of this thread.

 

It's morphed into a hybrid of the old Orthodox Brotherhood and Greek Economy threads  ;)

Edited by Bananas
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The article above is probably closer to reality than a lot the crap that passes itself off as expert analysis. Many people making tenuous links about some Orthodox "Brotherhood" between Greece and Russia. Apparently serious media organisation's like the BBC for example, but what I haven't seen mentioned at all is that Tsipras and many in his government are ATHEISTS!

Nothing to see here. There's no Orthodox brotherhood. Building better relationships with all sovereign nations is the goal. Foster trade, energy supplies between us and Russia etc. Possibly try to strengthen our hand in negotiations with the EZ and ECB but not aligning ourselves with the wrong Cold War power and asking for handouts.

Apparently both sides deny that Greece asked for a loan. So it never happened anyway but there's still speculation in the English media.

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eu subsidies through the past 3+ decades have what to do with today's mess? that was money given to greece and 'redistributed'. greece was/is an overall 'taker'. this what the most vocal of anti-eu politcians in richer eu nations are screaming bloody murder about.  

subsidies come with strings attached, these strings are EU legislations and codes that create dependancy, once you create dependancy the next subsidies come with more strings, policies that are unpopular with people that the government must spin and sell to the public as a good thing, the country now becomes dependent on these subsidies and those handing out those subsidies get to dictate policy in a once sovereign nation, meanwhile the media in countries that are net contributors like UK, germany and finland continually report that their tax money is being spent building railways and highways in greece while the greek people do no work retire at 55 and are a bunch of tax dodgers, which is why anti eu politicians in richer nations are screaming bloody murder, meanwhile the EU demand austerity higher taxes in greece, the raising of the retirement age, cuts in public spending and wage cuts resulting in greeks in their own country no longer able to pay their mortgages and rent and living on the streets.

nothing can change until greece leaves the euro and EU and is able to make its own decision regarding who they want to have closer ties with.

the EU is a busted flush, money just disappears from this giant organisation completely unaccounted for which is why the EU has NEVER had its accounts signed off by auditors. 

Edited by js1000
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not sure why it posted 5 times....

 

@thrylos

 

not sure how we can say Tsipra is playing it smart?   these types of games can backfire big time...

 

suppose EU call our bluff.....what will Russia do for us?

 

imagine a grexit, then for a short period we jump in bed with the Russian gangsters...  we have nowhere to turn...

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to be honest, i don't understand the meaning/purpose of this thread.

 

what if the communists won?

 

If only hehe...

 

And this thread is less centred around religion than the "Orthodox Brotherhood" thread, more about politics/economics and also ignores the nutjobs in countries like Serbia.

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  • 11 months later...

Situation in Armenia/Azerbaijan is delicate. Will inevitably fuel the tensions between Armenia and Turkey, with Russia being drawn into this in one way or another. Erdogan has already stated his support for the Azeri Turks.

 

One problem is that Russia is supplying arms to both Armenia AND Azerbaijan! Putin needs to drop his neo-USSR dreams of keeping influence over all former-Soviet states, read the history books and remember who the real enemy is.

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Well it's not news that he is a corrupt Tsar. He is also acting like a weak one towards the Turks. It is a contradiction to have hostile relations with Turkey, while supplying arms to their brothers in Azerbaijan. And then on top of that those arms are being used to kill Armenians.

 

Clearly old Vladimir and myself have a different outlook. I think Russia should back up its christian brothers in Armenia, in the same way that Turkey would for Azerbaijan. I don't know how Putin sees it, but he's not one for helping other countries and when he does, it seems a bit half arsed (unless you want to count Ukraine).

 

Israel is also supplying drones to the Azerbaijanis. Somehow they had to be involved in this too.

Edited by Koro
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