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The Greek Economy Thread


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Both Greece and its creditors are to blame for Greece's current state. What angers me and why I am strongly opposed to continued adoption of the euro is because since the beginning of the crisis, Greece has continuously needed bailouts. We find ourselves in the same position on a very frequent basis when the whole point of austerity is to make cuts but with the mindset that the economy will stabilize and things will eventually return to a better state.

 

With Greece we've seen the complete opposite. Year after year, people become more impoverished. More families with no food to eat. Kids graduating from college and having no jobs to turn to. Selling off of state assets to foreign investors at fire sale prices, migrants who have now camped in Greece hoping one day they'll go to Germany, Sweden Holland, continuous military provocations by Turkey who wishes nothing more than to destroy us. 

 

Ask yourself this? What exactly has the euro done for Greece? Hasn't it just continued a perpetual state of dysfunction, incompetence, and the continued humiliation of a proud peoples?

 

People ask what's the alternative and would the alternative be better for Greece? To be honest, how many bailouts and how many years are we going to let this happen for? 

 

Adopt the drachma, default on your debt, devalue your currency, welcome investors, and build the country back up. I'am of the belief that Greece may need to undergo a major situation like defaulting and leaving the EU in order to grow as a nation and to adopt policies in the societal, political, and economic realms that will make Greece what we all think it should be.

 

Remaining in the EU and adopting the currency has forced Greece to stagnate and become a nation of lost souls seeking opportunity. 

 

 

its a bit naive to think if we default /devalue we will be able to attract investors....

 

we do not have the right socio politica/ legal framework to nurture investment...

 

the 'lao' who elected the rock throwing protestor as PM will never allow the right structure for investment and growth....

 

these restructures and reforms fly in the face of what the 'greek' views as 'democracy'....

 

our only hope for reform and progress was under the umbrella of a western philosophy ....

 

I have always said if we transplanted the EPL into Greece...(stadia, players, budgets, marketing) within 5 years we will have a product again similar to todays GSL...

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the point is if we scrap the debt...

 

and then leave the euro...we will eventually fall back to our dark old methods of the 1980s...

 

the theory of going it alone to prosper would make sense if we had people and plans and the WILL....

 

Otherwise we will end up like fyrom Serbia Albania etc.... they are not in the euro-zone...why are they not prospering?

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Austerity in itself does not work but austerity coupled with investment and incentives to spur investments does.  The problem you have in Greece is that you have a bloated public sector, social programs (like pension) which cannot be supported by the current population and bureaucratic barriers that hinder investment.

 

Greece has a very educated young population which can be employed at a discount to European peers, year round great weather, very advantageous position in the world (China has taken notice hence its investments in our infrastructure). Every major company should be knocking on Greece's door wanting to invest.  However, everyone is scared to. 

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yes...they are scared to because they know....the country is controlled by rock throwing agitators...

 

Don't worry.  Your Harvard educated Mitsotakis will come to the rescue in his shiny armor.
 
Because he's so deserving.  Because it's normal to have your father push you into the role.  Because that's the way things work!  Because that's the way things should work!!  Because he's the best man for the job!  Because in all of Greece, yes, all 11 million people he's the most qualified and intelligent ... according to his dad and the people that have been payed off.
 
And then we wonder why Greece has been broken for so long.  Zzzzzz.  Truly, these people have no shame.
 
Will he do better than Tsipras ?  I'm guessing he will, but no by much.  But then again the local crazy man who goes around looking through rubbish bins would probably do a better job than Tsipras.
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yet.....we live in a country comfortably that has been lead by Abbott, Turnbull, Rudd, Howard, etc.....

 

but we want Greece to be lead by Che Guevara.,.... but admit comrade Tsipra has failed....

 

Greece got it wrong in the 1980s......and has been lead down the garden path by the rock throwers....

 

I am not a fan of the privileged elite...far from it....  but you will never get paid by a poor man....

I also find it ironic that the 'greeks' who are not fans of the 'corporate elite' ....have a twinkle in their eye when thinking about how Greece should be aligned to (or at least admire)  Uncle Vladimir.....it's almost a case of accepting corruption and elitism as long as its a form that suits our 'kafeneio version of what good Hellenes should aspire to'..

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So what is the deal with traveling to Greece right now.  Specifically I am going in June and was wondering the ATM rules  are and how much I can withdraw from a foreign bank account.  

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So what is the deal with traveling to Greece right now. Specifically I am going in June and was wondering the ATM rules are and how much I can withdraw from a foreign bank account.

About time a man of your intelligence and standing goes over to sort out these village idiots.

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the point is if we scrap the debt...

 

and then leave the euro...we will eventually fall back to our dark old methods of the 1980s...

 

the theory of going it alone to prosper would make sense if we had people and plans and the WILL....

 

Otherwise we will end up like fyrom Serbia Albania etc.... they are not in the euro-zone...why are they not prospering?

Anyone that thinks austerity is reform is a moron.

Anyone that thinks this austerity is working in Greece is deranged!

Anyone that thinks investors will come to he highest taxed country in the EU is peddling fiction..We don't need investors to buy Greek assets at fire sale prices. We need innovation, a gold backed currency low bureaucracy, lower taxes etc

Anyone that is opposed to the right to protest is a Nazi.

Anyone that is against the right to protest is a Nazi.

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what are you on about???

 

no one will ever invest with P.A.M.E and co. running the country...

 

 

we are becoming Albania....no one cares.....

 

enough of the Nazi talk...

 

we screwed things ourselves 40 years ago.......and some Morons still looking at secret handshakes and and Zionist/Masonic plots...

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Did I read correctly in Kathimerini the other day that only 8% of tax payers have actually filed a tax return??? 

 

The deadline in June 30th and mind you that lawyers and accountants are on strike which doesn't help but still 8% is deplorable. 

 

In Kastoria they are asking people to pay property taxes going back three years. How they expect people to pay, I don't know. 

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Well they are lowering the tax free threshold to 8600 Euros but does it really matter when everyone will just say they made 8000 Euros.  The only people who are going to pay more are government workers and people getting pensions, everyone else will just say they made less.  Its just a game.

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Tsipras can do what he wants, he is the darling of the Greek left. Greeks don't mind how much he lies or pretty much whatever he does. He gets a free pass.

 

Your comments when it comes to Greek politics are delusional bordering on fanatical.  Darling ?  Free pass ?  Greeks don't mind ?  Really ?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Its funny in Greece how all the political groups are pointing fingers at each other but in reality you only have 1 choice and that is to accept higher taxes in return for money to pay off your loans.  No political group would have fared any better.  Maybe we wouldn't have capital controls if the crap didn't happen last year but the whole system was dead.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Nobody made Tsipras cut pensions and tax the living daylights out of people to meet EU demands. Tsipras chose to do that on his own because in Syriza fantasy land, the way to economic prosperity is via over taxation. 

 

Tsipras could have chosen to cut spending on redundant social programs, reduce government labor force by natural attrition (ie: don't fill positions after people retire) or just fire some people but chose to do neither to protect his union friends. He doesn't even have the balls to go after civil servants who got their jobs with fraudulent uni degrees. 

 

This new money from MOU 3 will only last until around September, then what? MOU 4 and an endless cycle of bailouts continues.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Guys i have a question about farming in greece.

 

I read this from a greek newspaper : 

 

The main reason behind the high import bill is consumer behavior: We want to have all products all year round, irrespective of whether they?re in season or not. For example, as the season for Greek apples starts to come to an end now, sellers will begin importing to sustain demand, while when oranges are short in the summer, we still expect a glass of freshly squeezed every morning and need to supply tourists with oranges from Argentina

 

Is this why this actually happens when it comes specifically to produce ?  i guess what i mean is , does the weather in greece not allow for good quality year round

growth of certain fruits like lemons, oranges , etc ? (This part might seem silly but i honestly dont know ?). 

 

Also when it comes to meat it says "

 

As far as meat and fish are concerned, moreover, many wholesalers labeled them as Greek in order to boost their consumer appeal, while they are often sold at two or even three times the price at which they are purchased.

 

Does this actaully mean is is more profitable to bring in meat and fish from outside of greece in certain cases ?

 

 

 

http://www.ekathimerini.com/140003/article/ekathimerini/community/why-does-greece-import-so-much-food

 

Any comments on this article would be appreciatted. 

Edited by nasl
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  • 2 weeks later...

Alan Greenspan should probably stick to re-reading Ayn Rand novels.  He got it woefully wrong when the GFC hit.  Apparently he had no idea it was coming and still thinks he was not responsible in any way for what happened.  The problem with him and people that think like him is that they have this almost religious zeal that the "markets" will get everything right.  Less regulation good, government bad, it's very black and white.  The worst aspect of it is that it is not practical and doesn't resemble reality in any way.

 

If we are going to go the "free" market route with little or no regulation, fine, I'll open a brothel and crack-den either side of his place of residence, with a factory across the road spewing all manner of pollution.

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