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  • 3 months later...

Greece has a "bloated" public sector: 

Figure 21.1  Employment in general government as a percentage of the labour force (2000 and 2008)
gv-21-01.gif

 

Figure 21.2  Employment in general government and public corporations as a percentage of the labour force (2000 and 2008)

gv-21-02.gif

In other words, Greece has public assets, that are making a profit, which would sell cheap during a financial crisis to "pay off external debts" which can't be forgiven. Yet selling a revenue making asset for short term gains, which is what Varoufakis and other notable economists bring up, is cutting our nose to spite our face. It makes no sense. 

Source. http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/gov_glance-2011-en/05/01/index.html?itemId=/content/chapter/gov_glance-2011-27-en

 

the greeks were happy with the system they created and whilst they were benefiting...it was happy days....

 

ND, PASOK etc are creations of the lao...just acronyms they mean nothing just as SYRIZA..

 

We failed because we thought we knew best...not because of the IMF.EU  or the 'wealthy'..

 

Was the U.S happy with the system they created leading up to the 2008 Global Financial Crisis? Was Portugal? Was Ireland? Was Iceland? Was Spain? Was Italy? Did they all know best too?  
World debt has doubled since 2008. It is currently twice the value of the world's total economic output. Is the World naively in it's happy days or will that crash will be Greece's fault as well? 
Is Japan? Only Greece has tax cheats. Only Greece has a "bloated public sector". Only Greek has red tape. Only Greece this that and the other. 

Meanwhile, JP Morgan's asset sheet is bigger than France's GDP (6th biggest economy in the world) and the shareholder's equity is as big as Greece's GDP. 

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ok....then....Greece is fine.....

 

it's all a bad dream....keep employing people in the PS for non existent positions and pensions for all at 48....

 

they had it right....

 

That's the essence of the problem with the Greek public sector.  The percentage of the work force employed in it is meaningless, in and of itself.  What is important is whether actual productive work is being done.  I only found out recently about double pensions.  That made me smile.

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Corruption has reached deep in every sector of the society and is represented in the national culture. It's so deeply-rooted than even if you wanted to eliminate corruption you'd be opposed by the majority of the people, because you'd inevitably have to step on too many toes. I'm sorry to say this.

 

No matter which party has been in power, it used the state mechanism for patronage and to perpetuate corruption.  Even the so-called conservatives, who included small-state advocates, were one of the worst violators.

 

For decades--and I heard this too often--Greeks used to deride the Euros as stupid. And, it worked actually. Cooked books, governments lying about numbers, about everything, and the Euros would send Greece billions of...euros in support of all sorts of sectors. The farmers who are protesting today have been one of the most rewarded economic group in Greece.

 

Even when Greece joined the euro, it came in at an artificially high exchange rate, so Greeks thought they were more affluent than in reality.   Since 1980, when Greece joined the EU, Greek production of key foods (and not only) went down, in real measures.

 

So, when the crisis hit, many Greeks, including many of our friends here, bravely said, let's get out of Europe, we don't need those bastards with their rules, extortion, and whatever. ....

 

Except when you don't even produce enough to feed your people, and you import 80% of basic consumer goods, you have a big problem. And, the drachma would buy you diddly squat.

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  • 1 month later...
For decades--and I heard this too often--Greeks used to deride the Euros as stupid. And, it worked actually. Cooked books, governments lying about numbers, about everything, and the Euros would send Greece billions of...euros in support of all sorts of sectors. 

.......

 

As far as I can tell, the Greeks were fooling only themselves.  The OECD, and not only, was politely informing (starting in the early '90s) the Greek governments  that the economy was going from bad to worse. Moreover, Petropoulos  the banker had this to say about the Greek economy (article at today's NEA):

 

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How anyone can believe that austerity will do anything but shrink an economy is beyond reason. 

 

Of that, there is no doubt.  Maybe some economists who extol the virtues of austerity are too stupid to realise.  Maybe they are firm believers in the Austrian school of economics and were brought up on a diet of Ayn Rand literature.  You would be surprised at how some trained economists believe the way the world "should" work.

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Luciferians have a mafia economic model. Steal kill and destroy. They and Tsipras are out to destroy Greece and Europe.

 

Watch out for May or anytime before the British referendum. Tsipras and the IMF have hinted a financial event to occur in Greece.

Edited by Chriskiato
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So today the public unions went on strike to protest pension reforms, which are badly needed by the way. No flights taking off or landing at airports, accountants and lawyers also on strike so lawful taxpayers can't file their tax returns and are not being granted an extension. 

 

We also have migrants rioting in Piraeus and Greece is only days away from being kicked out of international soccer competitions. 

 

Wow......what a truly F***ed up state of affairs. 

 

The austerity measures are harsh, yes, but at the end of the day, it's Greece's own fault they put themselves in this position to begin with. 

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They pay to the government. I was unable to find any real information on the internet on how it all works. That is bizarre! How are you meant to work out if they really are too generous if we don't know how much they are contributing.

 

Are pensions in the public sector different? Is this what they are referring to? All I am reading is the propaganda from outside of Greece without the facts. We know they are curbing early retirement but what about the fairness in general?

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generous and odd pensions..

 

I am referring to real examples of family that I know of...

 

A female gets a pension for 'having 5 kids' even though her kids migrated to USA/Aus 40 years earlier..

 

A female receives a portion of her late fathers pension..because she remains 'unmarried'....(even though she lives in a defacto relationship).

 

there are or at least were until very recently a lot of these types of 'pension arrangements'....

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Thats just data matching limitations. IT is needed to catch those perpetrators. We still don't know how the pension system works in Greece.

 

Not sure where to put this but the last night I was watching the news. Merkel and Obama were standing side by side. Did anyone catch Merkels blatant Illuminati pyramid hand signals?

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Greece needs to change a lot of things to become sustainable. And the mess we are in is our own fault, but austerity is not the answer. The

 

 

Not sure where to put this but the last night I was watching the news. Merkel and Obama were standing side by side. Did anyone catch Merkels blatant Illuminati pyramid hand signals?

 

This type of talk makes for good stories but the illuminati or the people who run things, if you will, are not some crazy mystery. Just look for the wealthiest corporations and people, its not about pyramids and secret handshakes, its $$$$.

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Greece needs to change a lot of things to become sustainable. And the mess we are in is our own fault, but austerity is not the answer. The

 

 

This type of talk makes for good stories but the illuminati or the people who run things, if you will, are not some crazy mystery. Just look for the wealthiest corporations and people, its not about pyramids and secret handshakes, its $$$$.

You are completely wrong. Money is printed freely on a press. They could print as much as they please. Fiat currency is not backed by anything. Money is therefore not the motive.

 

I have seen photos of these hand signals by high profile people but these things can be easily photo shopped. When you see it happening in front of your eyes on television by a world leader it sends shivers down your spine.

 

Mate, study who these luciferians are. I know it sounds crazy to you but what is going in the world right now is insane! It will only make sense then. Many analysts I follow are anticipating major events between now and October which is likely to be a global finance and economic collapse much greater than 2008!

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Cooked books, governments lying about numbers, about everything, and the Euros would send Greece billions of...euros in support of all sorts of sectors.

 

The Euro's would send billions of... euros to Greece and every other country that requested them. What a magical organisation the EU is. You want money? You want money? You got it. WHO ELSE WANTS MONEY?!?!?! Of course German and French banks wanting a higher rate of return on idle capital didn't add fuel to the fire by buying bonds in Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain which fuelled asset bubbles in real estate and the stockmarket right? 

They can never be accused of wrongdoing. As our other friend tells us: 

The austerity measures are harsh, yes, but at the end of the day, it's Greece's own fault they put themselves in this position to begin with. 

 

It's Greece's own fault! I love this line. Investment bankers gamble on gambles and insure those gambled gambles to make big money but when they lost, the blame fell on the home owners who where approved multiple loans with no means testing, fraudulent loan application approvals, and NINJA loans. 

At the end of the day it's their own fault for being approved homes they couldn't afford and putting themselves in that position to begin with! And at the end of the day who are we referring to when we say "it's Greece's own fault"? Do the yiayiades and papoudes in the xoria understand Credit Default Swaps? Do they know who JP Morgan is? Maybe he's Taso and Maria's son from Vouliagmeni. Do they understand how a national economy works? Maybe we're referring to the youth, 1 in 2 of which is unemployed and probably 1 in 3 of those employed are owed months of backpay. Is that the Greece who is at fault? 

The moral righteousness reigns supreme when poor people can be used as an excuse because Greece is free, and people have the freedom to make choices. Make a bad choice and it's your own fault. The complexities of suburban and urban life don't matter. GDP per capita don't matter. Education don't matter. Health don't matter. Nor do political influences.  

When the wealthy, powerful, make a mistake we turn a blind eye and passively aggressively shove that bit of reality so far down our mind that we barely notice the difference. 

When world leaders do nothing about the offshore tax havens and the trillions in untaxed wealth, we just pretend like it isn't happening and all is well, just like when one of our friends yells or physically assaults their spouse at a bbq. It's best not to get involved and the problem will be solved somehow.

But how dare those poor, powerless people be poor an destroy national and world economies! They're the world movers and shakers that we should go after! While one hand is scolding Greece's poor, the other hand funnels money out of the country into said tax havens, further worsening the crisis for those who have nothing else left to give but the blood their ancestors fought for against the Italo-fascists, Nazi's, Communists, Junta, and Turks. 

Bravo. 

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