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The Greek Economy Thread


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Somethings change:

 

Late 80's: ruling Greece was PASOK or ND
Handling skopja: Pasok or ND

Current: SYRIZA KAI KAMMENOS

 

Somethings never change:

Late 80's: Greeks outside of Greece and Europe complaining and having opinions from the other side of planet earth.

 

Current: Still complaing about everything and still knowing everything better. Left, right, centre, nothing is good enough and keep complaing.

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Hopefully the people woke up and realized that there are no shortcuts anymore and that threatening Europe and all the other BS isn't going to work.  At least Tsipras finally admitted that this was the only way after all these months of playing games.  Varoufakis is still trying to change the currency over so he can add that to his new book and his speaking circuit tour.  Varoufakis is a god damn clown.  

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Smart no? They lease it, will try to make it run better, create more jobs, and in 50 years they are ours again, or they pay more money to run it. Don't see anything wrong with it.

 

We didnt sell it like you say, but lease it. Like you also say.

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You said yourself it's only for 50 years, not forever. Its not like they will raise the German flag or something. We've leased islands to Russian billionaires for 100 years and nobody cared for that either.

 

5 years ago they requested the same 50 bil in assets to be sold. Under Samaras only they were able to sell 4 bil of that requested 50. It's the same thing again. The airport deal was also made under Samaras ruling and stalled by Syriza. Do you actually think they will sell 50 bil while not even the bitch of Germany(sAMARAS) could sell over 4 bil in 5 years? Wake up.

Edited by Doxa
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Wake up, Because we won't sell it.
Wake up, Because it was to get the money from the Europeans.

Wake up, because nothing can be sold, only leased so we will get it back in the end.

Wake up, because it will make us a lot of tax money if the foreigners get the assets running.

 

Wake up, because else Greek billionaires would have gotten them for 10% of the real value because they paid of Nea Demokratia government officials.

 

We will never obey the Germans, stop believing everything you read in Western propaganda newspapers.

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Wake up, because else Greek billionaires would have gotten them for 10% of the real value because they paid of Nea Demokratia government officials.

 

 

So true.  Somehow, someway Greek governments find a way to screw their own people.  Burn the lot of them I say.

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Came back from Greece this weekend (was there for a month) and made a few observations:

 

1. Went to three islands and they were all packed! We tried to rent a car and they were telling us that they were all sold out. The only difference between this year and years past was that majority of the tourists were foreign, predominantly Italian. There were very few Greek tourists.

 

2. Went to Kalamata were my family is from, and it was packed as well. Though for the first time being there, I actually heard foreign tourists. In the past, it was 100% Greek and Greek-Americans/Australians.

 

3.  In speaking to everyone there, from family members to cab drivers, for the most part, they blamed the govn't for the mess Greece is in and for the handling of the negotiations.  Most of the hotel owners were upset that the negotiations started as the beginning of the season hurting their early bookings but for the most part, they were able to recover.

 

4. The locals still went out and tried to enjoy themselves. They did mention that they did cut down on some of their spending but this did not prevent them from going out though their vacations were cut from years past and if they did go away, usually it was in close proximity to where they lived.

 

These are just my observations and I did go at the peak of tourist season so it can be just my experience.

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I go to the same place in south Messenia and the only difference I noticed this year was there was less Germans than usual. They probably worry about getting some abuse from the locals after their government screwed Greece over.

 

There are still alot of people I thought were German, but they are actually Swiss or Austrian and loads of Dutch people too. More Brits seems to go than they used to, I think 4 airports in England all fly direct to Kalamata now, and most of them then head down to the Mani probably. Also less Italians, they used to all come over in their camper vans and little fiats, but now I'm not sure why they've stopped, probably cannot afford anymore.

 

Main difference is the Greek tourists are spending less and eating out less, but the foreign tourists seem to have picked up the slack and most tourist businesses are still doing ok.

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I didn't go this year but one thing I noticed and the people that went this year can confirm this is that I saw a lot less traffic in recent years compared to say 2008.  Literally their are not those many cars on the road and I'm thinking its worse now.  Also, the kaffenia in the villages had a lot less traffic.  I remember in the older days they would make souvlaki and other food and they stopped it completely or only make it a couple days a week.

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The road from Athens to Kalamata cut the commute significantly, it pretty much goes directly to Kalamata where in the past in would go to Tripoli.  I did notice a lot of Dutch/Scandinavian types more in Kalamata then I can ever remember seeing there.  For the most part though, Kalamata was mostly filled with Greek speaking people (tourists/locals).  On the Islands, I noticed so many Italians, way more than in years past but the Germans were definitely missing....

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I think Greeks have become or have been neurotic for a long time. With our capital city being built around the Parthenon, it is a daily reminder to the people that we were a great and advanced nation. The problem is, the current generations still think we are. This is evident in the way we vote, the way the public sector is run, the way corruption and nepotism are mainstays in the culture, and the idol worship of football owners, faction leaders, celebrities, and the like. 
Our history hangs over us and makes us feel insecure. We don't do great things, we live in the past were we did great things. Media companies, and those who own them, love this because they appeal to those insecurities. Instead of doing the right thing, doing things that work, making tough decisions, we throw tantrums and react emotionally by giving power to RIGHT WING FASCISTS, for example. 
Even when we all agree about something we assume someone else will fix it. If it isn't fixed, we blame the system. In the mean time the oligopolies and monopolies, and the same families behind them, gain more power. 
There are clever people in Greece, there are creatives, entrepreneurs, philosophers, teachers, intellectuals, but they are all drowned out by stupidity, blind faction loyalty, nepotism, greed and the establishment. 

I'm not sure if this was done by accident, a result of our environment, but it is quite clear when every political faction and every political leader talks about change and improvement yet the same thing happens every time and the people are either satisfied, in denial or feel powerless for any meaningful change. 

Varoufakis was one of these renegade rebels that didn't play by the rules and people where drawn to him because he was something different. Someone who stood up against the austerity. Someone who stood up for the people, who stood up for what the people deep down wanted to do, to stand up to the iron grip of pervasive austerity and authoritarianism.
But people invested too much in him and he was taken out anyway because he was too extreme for the E.U. He was a big risk for the wealthy of the Eurozone because he spoke more sense than they did. We are worse off having taken extraordinary amounts of bailout money since the start of the crisis, and he was right. No one actually wanted to help Greece, they wanted to help their own influential interests.

In order to see this you have to look at the underlying ideology, instead of what is being presented to you. Maybe Tsipras really was another Fidel Castro revolutionary. Maybe he did believe what he said before getting into power. But what has he done any different than any of the previous leaders? Nothing. No one asks why. One faction blindly follows him, previous supporters are disillusioned, another says he's a dirty communist, another says that immigrants are the problem, all vying for power the cycle repeats itself. 

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I think you are barking up the wrong tree if you think Greece needs a revolutionary 'Che' type as leader..

 

this 'ideological mindset' is a string Greek trait, that has kept us going backwards for 40 years..

 

there are NO FASCISTS, in power...

 

You sound like you have been hanging around Greek universities singing viva assylo

Edited by RED SHERIFF
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The Fascists are in the EU and IMF. Where in history has austerity worked?  

What significant achievements have been made in Greece in the past 40 years of having a dictatorship, ND, Pasok and a pseudo-Communist party in power? Absolutely none. The advancements that have been made have always been to benefit a wealthy benefactor and nothing more. The communications revolution was a cash grab of the public purse by private interests. 
Who benefitted from all those EU loans that we couldn't pay back? The wealthy. Who's paying it back? Everyone else. 

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the greeks were happy with the system they created and whilst they were benefiting...it was happy days....

 

ND, PASOK etc are creations of the lao...just acronyms they mean nothing just as SYRIZA..

 

We failed because we thought we knew best...not because of the IMF.EU  or the 'wealthy'..

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If you are trying to offend me because you think I am australian, 'you' are mistaken..

 

I live in Melbourne and was born in Australia....'you' can have a go at australia...I do not get offended, as I don't have an australian bone in my body...well not a 'patriotic' one...

 

however...greece could do much worse than follow elements of the australian  political/economic/ business friendly framework..

 

the Che Guevara greek rebel has killed Greece... and no one else..

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Looks like Eldorado gold mine in Halkida is reopening after bogus attempts by this left wing enviro nutcase govt to shut it down over "insufficient lab tests". 

 

I just came across this report from Mckinsey Institute, 'Greece 10 Years Ahead'. It's a couple of years old but pretty much says it all. http://www.mckinsey.com/global_locations/europe_and_middleeast/greece/en

 

 

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Greek Government that cares about the environment ?  I don't think so.  Greece is probably the most polluted country in the EU.  It's rivers and lakes are a national disgrace.  They can't even handle basic rubbish collection because ... I have no idea why.  Apparently it's hard.

 

More likely the correct bribes didn't take place or the government used this as a stunt to try and get votes.  But one thing I am 100% sure of, is that they do not care about the environment.

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I doubt that Greece is the most polluted country in the EU.  We have the 2nd or 1st most blue flagged beaches in the world. While garbage collection is an issue, industry is what causes the most pollution and sadly, we definitely lack far behind the rest of Europe...

 

I do agree that the mine incident is purely political, for some reason job creation is not a top priority in Greece...

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