greece The Greek Economy Thread

[gyros]

Who would you vote for??? PASOK or ND....They racked up a 360 billion dollar bill....What do they have to show for it?????

 

I'd vote for Pasok and ND over Golden Dawn, KKE, and the communists in Syriza.  I'd never vote for a Nazi or Communist.  

[js1000]

It was a waste of time but 95% of the people who voted NO wanted to stay in the Euro so nobody got sold out.  Only a few hardline 1918 Lenin communists wanted to leave to go to the drachma.  Why are you so bent up on privatization.  You obviously haven't dealt with doing anything with the Greek government in Greece and what a joke it is.  Let someone else run the regional airports.  Not some clowns who hire their whole family and do nothing but lose money.  If the last 2 weeks wasn't a wake up call to you and all the Drachma lovers, then God help you guys.  If old people waiting in lines to get 120 Euros and people going from pharmacy to pharmacy to get insulin and cancer drugs but can't find any didn't bother then the Drachma people are some twisted people.

Privatisation, its like a feeding frenzy for the 1% 

by the way all the above went on regarding queuing at banks no insulin drugs etc and we're in the EURO, and the reason it went on is because they can do that to us whenever they want as we don't control the very currency we're using. 

i don't see anything marxist/Lenin/communist about wanting your own currency, and not being told how to run your affairs by people hell bent on owning your country and impoverishing your people. 

Everything that has been privatised in the UK has led to increased costs to the consumer, be it gas electricity water, i have no problem with capitalism but you cannot privatise monopolies. 

i suppose in your world those that want to be self reliant are twisted people that need gods help. 

An apologist for the very people that are carving up your country amongst themselves, and you wonder how they get away with it. 

[J1078]

I was in favor of the referendum and the OXI vote but now I see it was a joke and a big waste of time. I said it from day one that finally Tsipras has the balls to stand up and do what he feels is right, but know the rookie is showing his weakness, how the F*** do you stand in the middle of Athens and preach and yell for people to vote OXI on Sunday saying we won't be bullied and we won't stand for this, but exactly 4 days later you come up with an even harsher austerity plan then before that will F*** the Greek people you just preached to 4 days prior. WTF?? I think at the end of the day he felt the pressure plus he new he was pissing people off and it even became more evident that a "GREXIT" was going to happen so the guy crumbled and gave in. And now I'm hearing the creditors want tougher austerity measures then Tsipras proposed.

[gyros]

They should have been cooperative from the beginning but Greek people are used to all the politicians giving them everything and finally someone said NO and they don't like it anymore.  Tough s%$#!.  Instead of taking their medicine like they should have early and moved on, they whined and cried to no more austerity and to be in the Euro.  You can't have it both ways.  Now the EU has them by the balls today and they will make things a lot worse than if Greece was smart enough to sign something back in the winter.  Greeks learned some harsh lessons.

 

First of all you need to be diplomatic.  Don't go cursing countries out calling them terrorists and nazis and then beg them for money but with no strings attached.

 

Greece is a 3rd world country without the Euro.

 

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.  The last 2 weeks was a wakeup call for everyone.  Even the idiot OXI voters who were dancing in the streets like morons.

[Bananas]

So basically going back to the dpx can't happen because logistically we can't print the money and get the job done quickly enough. What is to stop Greece from getting more presses ? Heck, we could even buy some German ones. Their machinery is reliable after all ;)

But, the point is moot anyhow, since the greater majority of Greeks still want to use the Euro. The sad fact of the matter is that the only way Greece or any other country can leave the EZ, is with Germany's permission. At the end of the day, the EU is not a Germanic hegemon but it's damn close. They have by far the most influence and say, and the Euro being valued where it is, is a delight to the German economy. If they ever returned to the Deutschmark, it would quickly rise in value and their export oriented economy would face difficulties.

This is the main reason why Germany doesn't want a Grexit. The monies owed to them by Greece is a pittance compared to the competitive advantage they get by having a devalued Euro, relative to a hypothetical Deutschmark.

If hypothetically Greece left against Germany's will, and returned to the dpx, Germany and through their influence other EZ members, would do everything in their power to make sure the Greek economy didn't succeed. To be fair, we would probably ruin it of our own accord, but you can be sure they would make every effort to also make it fail. A resurgence of the Greek economy post Grexit, would be the ultimate German nightmare, as it would give other countries the courage to leave also. So, trying to make a new dpx succeed is difficult enough, and unknown, coupled with the fact that Germany would be their to bury you at every opportunity, doesn't sound appetising.

There is also the political cost. EZ members wouldn't exactly be keen to support Greece with any issues with our neighbours. We would be quite isolated.

There are only two ways that Greece will ever get its own currency, and both scenarios are years away. The first is Greece keeps spiralling downhill, and the EU get to to the point that Greece has to leave the EZ. In this case, it would be with Germany's permission, and it would be coordinated and infinitely less chaotic. The second way is other nations find themselves in trouble and Germany isn't just dealing with an insolvement Greece, but a Spain or an Italy as well. But again, this is a long way away if ever.

Note that when I say Germany's permission, that doesn't mean the German government. They will never ever willingly let Greece go. What I mean by Germany's permission is that the German people are so fed up with the situation that no politician will be willing to wear the political cost of keeping Greece in the EZ.

[Original 21]

Is Schauble serious with that offer? He deserves to be dead, PAOK fans were right the other day with banner.

[J1078]

I'm hearing its looking more and more like a Greek exit. Scary s%$#!.

[Lamiara ole]

Let's face it! We are up s%$#!'s creek! We are at the mercy of a bunch of ex-Nazi nations that want to suck blood!

I don't want to be at Tsakalotos' position right now!

If I was I would be spreading the "F*** yous" alll over the place!

In fact he should start doing it!

Enough is enough!

[J1078]

I really feel like telling Germany and all those F***ers from the north to go F*** themselves and walk out of the EU and start printing our old currency, let the markets crash and the Euro dollar drop, mother F***ers deserve it. Hopefully the USA would come to our rescue. Short term we are way worse but after 5 years we will start to get out of this.

[Bananas]

The EU will drag this out as long as necessary to get the agreement they want.

In breaking news, Greece offers all their first born males to work in EU salt mines. Schauble says, not enough.

[gyros]

Thanks Varoufakis.  You caused all this havoc and now you're on Greek Islands with your million dollar homes while Greeks are wondering if they can buy insulin and get money for food.  You don't talk to people that way.  Period.  Now we are going to get raped with some ridiculous agreement.  The economy has already gone down $7 billion this year because of all the chaos.

 

Varoufakis is a big piece of s%$#!.  It pisses me off that he cussed everyone out and then ran away.  Typical spineless puke.  Now Tsipras with zero experience is trying to clean up the mess by begging for crumbs.

[J1078]

Wake up guys This was Tsipras and varoufakis is plan from the beginning they were both in on it, it's the good cop bad cop, it was always planned for varoufakis to go in there like a ranging bull and right after the referendum he would resign and Taipras would go in as a breath of fresh air with the referendum results on his side, it was all planned this way but it didn't work.

[gyros]

Wake up guys This was Tsipras and varoufakis is plan from the beginning they were both in on it, it's the good cop bad cop, it was always planned for varoufakis to go in there like a ranging bull and right after the referendum he would resign and Taipras would go in as a breath of fresh air with the referendum results on his side, it was all planned this way but it didn't work.

 

These people pushed this way too far.  They didn't think the banks would shut down and now that they did, life sucks for Greece.  I do think they will agree to something tomorrow but it will be something that will be month to month and force Greece to carryout the reforms.  There is too much pressure from outside forces for Germany and Finland to run wild.  I can't really blame Finland and Germany either.  They have put so much money up and Greece just takes the money and does the opposite of what they promised to do.  Greeks are big time liars.

[Torontoblue]

Tsipras, Varoufakis and Syriza are to blame for all of this.  Yes of course past Governments started all this. But Syriza came to power with all their lies to the people.  They made the people believe they were the saviors of Greece.  They would return Greece to all its glory. tell the rich countries to F U.   How can the EU trust Greece after all the lies. They dragged this on for so long and even called a referendum. Now Tspiras turns his back on Greece, tells the NO voters to FU instead, and the world is laughing at us.  Check message boards from all the news sites. Everyone thinks Greeks are mental cases, lol. WTF.

Some of you saying America will come to our rescue. Yeah right. You think the Americans want to anger Germany and it allies? The Americans plate is full with the Middle East, Russia and China. They could less about Greece right now. 

[gyros]

Nobody is going to save Greece.  They are major baggage.  They bring nothing to the table and they are a pain the ass to deal with.  Russia, China, and the US want no part in bailing Greece out.

[Lamiara ole]

Guys I see it coming! There will be Grexit in the next hours or days!

The northen european prick do not want us there! We are a nousance!

We require special attention!

We require tones of dough!

WE ARE A LIABILITY!!!!!A BIG ONE!

 

I say stick it to them and ISOLATE OURSELVES! get out of the F***in club!THEY DO NOT DESERVE US!

Work our bitts off and bring this nation where it belong! TO THE TOP ONCE MORE!

WE HAVE PROVEN IT THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES! WE CAN DO AGAIN!

 

Furthermore let these idiots stay up there in finland and freeze their balls offa!

They will never see the BRIGHT SUN OF THE AEGEAN AGAIN!

Let them die of MOUXLA!

[J1078]

I agree Greece will be out of the EU, unfortunately nothing can save them now I think it's to late. Wtf

[J1078]

So now what? What happens on Sunday? Is there a vote or is there more negotiations? I know Sunday is the deadline. I heard the Germans are proposing a 5 year Grexit and they will provide humanitarian aid. Mother F***ers....

[Bananas]

it looks like we should have been more brazen & bold 5+ years ago...we held more cards. 

 

i don't blame varoufaki. he made proposals - from ecb bonds to finance growth in s. europe to debt write-off. all were rejected. 

 

the eurogroup are turning the screws because they know we don't want to exit. the paradox of the referendum's results & the peoples' desire to remain in the ez have hamstrung everything.

 

dumb move and we called it prior to the dhmopsifisma.

 

if schauble wins and greece gets booted, will greece still carry out painful reforms? they have no other choice.

 

Great post.  Especially the comment about the schizophrenic position of the greek population ie. they want the Euro but without austerity.  One comes with the other, it's that simple.

 

I think the meeting today was just the entree.  The real meeting is coming where the political heads as opposed to the finance ministers will do the talking.  I still think the German position of accepting a Grexit is a ruse.  But, tomorrow or this week I could be proven wrong.  Schauble proposing a 5 year temporary exit and the "acquisition" of 50 billion in assets (maybe they can liquidate all the periptora in Greece) was out of left field.  That took me by surprise.  I'd accept his offer on two conditions.  First, it's permanent as opposed to 5 years, and second, we send him 50 billion "F*** you" messages instead of giving him 50 billion in Greek assets.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Bananas

[Akritis_1944]

There are sections within the Troika who are just in it to humiliate and crush Greece even if they end up wrecking the Eurozone and it's become obvious that you can't negotiate with these people.

Schauble is 73 years old. I now agree with him that the retirement age should be 70. I wish it was in Germany so this demented and evil nazi wouldn't be meddling with the lives of innocent people. Let him go back to wheeling his chair in a teutonic garden humming his SS ditties.

Why should a 5, 10, 18 yo in Greece have to suffer because some mean spirited vindictive nazi can't get over the fact his feelings were hurt?

This isn't about politics any more. I couldn't care less for SYRIZA and Tsipras and the side show of right and left pseudo-politics in Greece. The demands that petty politicians from Germany, Finland, Latvia and the others have towards Greece are an affront to fairness, let alone democracy and simply, they are terrorism!

Kick out SYRIZA and elect the most pliable and treasonous (from a Greek perspective) government of technocrats and those in charge in the EZ sole mission would still be to humiliate and defile Greece. There's no diplomacy on show here. Just crude greed and personal vendetta.

It's game over. We enter a new phase now.

[gyros]

I agree with France and Italy.  They are supporting Greece because they know they are next so they want to set a precedent when it comes time for their bailout.

 

I can't say that the "Euro" is a failed project.  I mean its fairly young and their are a lot of bumps when you create a new currency with different countries.  Right now I would rather be in the Euro then on the outside.  You don't really see any weak countries in Europe saying we don't want to be in the Euro.

 

The other problem with Greece is that nobody ever comes together.  Always fighting internally with everything.  Its ingrained in the culture.  During a time of crisis, we are still fighting like cats and dogs (We as in the elected government officials).  Too much hard ideology and nobody wants to compromise for the better of the country.  The government right now is in a mess and will have to be reshuffled or new elections must be held. Enough already. 

[gyros]

The Swiss and British have a strong currency and banking system so they will never join.  You can't really compare The British pound to the Drachma or Lira.  Its no comparison.

[gyros]

http://www.politico.eu/article/greece-crisis-live-tsipras-parliament-referendum-bailout-reforms-eurozone-eurogroup-council-summit/

 

 

Greece has to be able to do the 12 things on this list according to an alleged document floating.  Hmmm.  I don't know about this.  They will have to have a new alliance government setup tonight.

[gyros]

That would be a big mistake on the collateral.  You may as well leave the Euro then.

[gyros]

Do you have a link