greece The Greek Economy Thread

[js1000]

 

This is why there is no hope for Greece unless drastic reforms are made:

 

[JimAdams]

On the new stands in Nazitowns all across the fascist world!

Thanks for trashing this forum with trashy memes.

You are welcome. As they say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. What you find insulting, is another person's motivation to change things in life. I appeal to the people that appreciate such creative expressions. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by JimAdams

[JimAdams]

My previous answer is as clearcut as it gets. If that equates to Germany for your, that's fine. Dropping the EU will bring Greece to Northern Rhodesia levels - Northern Rhodesia is what Zambia was before it became Zambia.

 

So, just because you'd like to see Rome burning doesn't mean there are no ways out, my little Nero.

[js1000]

Jim that was brilliant you described Germany in matter of minutes.

Now I'll ask you the question once again, how does Greece pay off a debt of 380 billion, with 2.6 million pensioners, a unemployment rate of 25 percent, and a youth unemployment rate of 50 percent.

Lets not forget they will have a negative economic growth for at least another 10 years.

In the Euro zone from examples of others Portugal Spain Italy....Are they showing economic growth with harsh austerity measures.

PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION.

If Greece had 100% employment zero pensioners and higher taxes they still wouldn't be able to pay that debt off, its not designed to be paid off, the agenda is for the creditors to asset strip Greece and own everything there. 

 

the crisis explained

[JimAdams]

If Greece played ball - which it clearly is not doing -  and showed signs of cooperation and reforms, there would be huge pressure on the debt holders for a 'haircut' - debt write-off. The pressure is exerted from the IMF, US and from within the EU.

Greece is not cooperating. Everything else is mute.

Edited July 3, 2015 by JimAdams

[JimAdams]

Don't know if it's true or not: Rumors have it that the Turkish speaking population of Thrace will be voting  for "No" following a Turkish directed effort to inflict damage on Greece and the EU. As I said, could be bull...

Edited July 3, 2015 by JimAdams

[JimAdams]

[JimAdams]

SYRIZA called for referendum in order to prevent government collapse - or in other words party preservation. Forget what's good for the Greek people. As long as Tsipras and SYRIZA stay in power.

 

Read on Ethnos:

Edited July 3, 2015 by JimAdams

[JimAdams]

Jim you have posted the obvious on most of your posts....REFORMS REFORMS REFORMS, what I'm asking you is....If the youth unemployment stays at 45 percent for the next 20 years....Even with hair cuts and REFORMS....Why would the youth stick it out? Wouldn't you look for greener pastures?

If our youth who's the future of the land keeps leaving the country....How will we make sure that the migrants and immigrants don't become majority....And the Greeks minority?

Please jim for once can you answer the tough questions???

The whole purpose of reforms and a 'haircut' is to avoid that senario.  That's the best I can do in answering hypothetical (what-if) questions.  But Greece is going to suffer either way. Whether they stay with EU or not. The only question is how much and for how long?

Edited July 3, 2015 by JimAdams

[JimAdams]

 It reads: "Money or I'll shoot myself" (cover of German Magazine Handelsblatt) (Sorry Akritis_1944, but I consider this humoristic - tragically so, but still reflects reality). 

Edited July 3, 2015 by JimAdams

[gyros]

If Greece had 100% employment zero pensioners and higher taxes they still wouldn't be able to pay that debt off, its not designed to be paid off, the agenda is for the creditors to asset strip Greece and own everything there. 

 

 

If the EU told Greece today that your debt is zero, do you realize that Greece couldn't make it through July because they spend more than they make. Greeks are really good at the "fall guy".  In the 70's through 90's it was n Amerikani kai n evrei.  Young Tsipras Scum would march to the US Embassy and say "Exo Ameriki".  Now its moved to the Germans and the EU.  

 

Again.  If our debt was wiped out to zero on July 3, 2015 we could not make it through this month because we SPEND more money than we take in.  

 

Greece stays in Euro and gets a certain standard of living and makes reforms.

 

Greece goes to the Drachma, the pensions are worth $200 a month and makes reforms.

 

Anthoula the hair stylist retires at age 50.  Nikos the Clarino player also is able to retire at 50 because of his "hazard" job.  Gianni the baker also can retire at 50 because baking bread is a "hazard" job. Then of course we have Gregori who went to school and became a doctor.  Gregori makes 6 figures and has a nice house worth 400k Euros yet his tax return says he makes $10,000 a year.  Don't forget Gregori's son, Vasili who is going to college and can stay there for 20 years to finish his degree.  

 

This kind of stuff is unacceptable in any civilized country but not in Greece.  Oh no.  Don't forget you can't work Sundays either or PAME will come out and shut the whole country down.

Edited July 3, 2015 by gyros

[gyros]

The Patra-Varda-Olympia roadway has no tolls.  I'm not sure who the contractor was but of course Greece owns it.  They don't fly "specialists" from Germany to fix broken guardrail.  Stop with the nonsense. My family lives in a village as I mentioned earlier in the middle of nowhere and they got access to DSL (High speed internet) last year.  That is amazing. I never would have imagined that ever happening.  Also, all their roads are paved compared to the 90's when you were riding on gravel roads.  If we were on our "own", I can't see any of this happening.  But what do I know, I've never been to Caracas or Havana.

[gyros]

Gyros you keep avoiding the hard questions....We know that Greece has come a long way when compared to the 90s.

The hard question is....knowing the facts that Greece is bankrupted, is harsh austerity the road back to recovery? Or is Greece going to sink even lower? And if in the year 2050 Greece has returned to a prosperous country....Are Greeks going to be the majority? Or the minority?

I haven't seen anything good come out of southern Europe, that will convince me that the situation is getting better, in fact much worse....Europe is on the brink.

Please lets stay on topic.

 

What is your hard question that I haven't already answered multiple times in the last 2 pages.  Maybe English isn't your first language and you have poor reading comprehension skills.  I don't know.  But I've already laid out the scenario if the debt was cut to ZERO today that Greece couldn't make it through July because they spend more money than they bring in. Voting No or Yes does nothing.  Greece makes $1 and spends $2.  

Edited July 3, 2015 by gyros

[Original 21]

I don't think some of you have read the austerity measures that were offered, theh were officially released by Europe, they aren't harsh at all and reasonae. Tsipras is a lying sack of s%$#! and told the people that Europe wanted a 23% VAT when it was actually 13% VAT, all this to help his cause.

[gyros]

So again....Thanks for letting us know that we're bankrupt....Do we start from scratch and reform ourselves....Our do we become the example of the world for the next 30 years under Germany?

I'm guessing you don't think highly of Greeks, so you choose to become the whipping boy of Europe.

Hopefully Greeks make the right choice.

 

I'm hoping you're a young kid because Greeks are not capable of reforming anything.  You don't know the Greek mentality because you're too young.  Go talk to the older folks who lived in Greece in the 50's and 60's.  50 years later Greece is still broke.  

Edited July 3, 2015 by gyros

[gyros]

I believe Greece has reached the point where they must reform....Even if Greece wanted to stay as it is....Impossible there's no cash to do so.

I think this is the time to reform yourself....Whether they allow Germany or do it themselves....Without a tight budget it will be impossible.

We need to keep the youth in Greece, for a brighter future.

 

Fair enough.  We both are on the same page about reforms.  If I was in the EU's shoes, I would just let Greece go.  Cut your losses and move on.  Let PAME and Syriza figure it out.

[Lamiara ole]

It is time to kill THE BIG FAT COW namely "DHMOSIO" or shrink it to its lowest denomination!

Greeks do not need a BIG FAT COW  of that magnitude to conduct their business!

The moment this happens (all hell will break loose though?) the country will be on its way to prosperity!

The person who introduces that will save Greece!

Let's see who possesses these particular balls?!

[Lamiara ole]

It is time to kill THE BIG FAT COW namely "DHMOSIO" or shrink it to its lowest denomination!

Greeks do not need a BIG FAT COW  of that magnitude to conduct their business!

The moment this happens (all hell will break loose though?) the country will be on its way to prosperity!

The person who introduces that will save Greece!

Let's see who possesses these particular balls?!

[Lazarus]

Our own Athinaios has posted his thoughts on his blog article on Phantis:

The Greek Crisis Goes On While There's No Light as the End of the Tunnel

[gyros]

The more I think about it and the more I see that the polls are split 50-50 yet 75% want to be in the Euro, I think the best solution is the following:

 

Europe writes off all the debt.

Greece figures out how to pay the IMF

Europe then prints off drachma as a going away present for Greece to help them out and then tells them go on your own now.

 

This would be the best solution.  Clean start for Greece and the EU will be done with that country and move on.  No point in throwing more good money down the hole. Syriza and the other pony tailed losers can figure it out then.  

Edited July 4, 2015 by gyros

[athinaios]

Thank you Lazarus for the plug.

 

As for the referendum, it's really a bad one. First, it's not clear what the question is!  There's no offer on the table right now!! Second, it will provide no clear verdict, unnecessarily dividing the people. What will Tsipras do if the majority votes "yes"?... Resign, call new elections? This is not good  as more time will be lost. Greece is fast running out of money.

 

There are several voices within the Greek government that have said all sorts of things. That a deal may be possible even after a "no" vote; Tsipras said a "no" vote doesn't mean that Greece will leave the euro!  Some others have said that whatever the offered deal was back in February, it would be accepted today after the Greek govenment was caught by surprise that the troika didn't accept Greek demands.

 

To show you that all is a speculation, most of you are guessing what will happen after the referendum, especially if there's a "no" majority. A referendum isn't supposed to be so vague nor what would happen after it takes place. The previous one it was about yes-or-no regarding monarchy. Everybody understood the question and the result left no doubt about the next day!

 

....

Update: I just read this, and if I understand Greek correctly, such statements are really non-sensical. I know many politicians talk like that, but this is the talk of a used car salesman or childish at best....  If I were a negotiating partner with Mr. Tsipras expecting to talk seriously about the terms of the loans he's asking from me, I don't think I'd want to talk to him again!

 

"

[Original 21]

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html#axzz3etEfrU9j

Well well well... 30% "haircut" or "tax" on all bank accounts of 8,000 euros or higher might be imposed... If this happens I'm sure Tsipras will be blaming the big bad Europeans. On the other hand, I don't think there are many accounts with that much money in them. The interesting part of the article is that Greece will run out of cash for ATMs by the middle of next week. Mia xara ta pame Alexi!

[Irlandos]

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html#axzz3etEfrU9j

Well well well... 30% "haircut" or "tax" on all bank accounts of 8,000 euros or higher might be imposed... If this happens I'm sure Tsipras will be blaming the big bad Europeans. On the other hand, I don't think there are many accounts with that much money in them. The interesting part of the article is that Greece will run out of cash for ATMs by the middle of next week. Mia xara ta pame Alexi!

PLEASE tell me you didn't get suckered into believing this one! :lol:

[JimAdams]

^ It has since been officially denied. Another scaremongering tactic or just wild speculation?

Now, here's on of the biggest jokes ever uttered. Officially denied? By whom? By a zero credibility government. The same government that said capital controls will never be imposed, and that the Europeans would be shaking at the thought of our departure from the EU? The same government that said " we will negotiate a better deal immediately after we win the elections!" ?

 

Edited July 4, 2015 by JimAdams

[JimAdams]

 

They sucked away the dignity from the Greek people. All so that left wing Hugo Chavez-style politics can hang onto power and change this once proud country to a Banana Republic.

 

For those that do read Greek, here is a very interesting article by

Edited July 4, 2015 by JimAdams