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4 hours ago, J1078 said:

We have not time to experiment as our 2nd game is going to be crucial and may decide our placing in this group. Bosnia scares the s%$#! out of me right now as they are in great form and much better then when we faced them in the World cup campaign. I hope we can somehow squeeze out a draw but it will be difficult in a hostile environment.  I hope Donis stays healthy as that will solidity one wing spot and with Mitro in the middle we need to find another winger. I have a feeling Coach Ange will probably play Mantolas or Pelkas on the wing over the young guys... Our mid field will need some tinkering as well. Do you start Samaris or Zeca or do you go with Kourbelas and Gala?? We have to figure this out quick.... 

I said it as well that this match at Bosnia could determine if Greece qualify for the Euros. Bosnia looked good in the Nations League but I think this will be a tight cagey affair and Bosnia defense is there weakness which could be exploited. I believe we could come out of Bosnia with a tie which would be great for Greece and if they win that would set everything up very well with 6 points from the first 2 games and then home matches to follow with Italy and Armenia. 

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Slightly sobering but I think we don't have the players good enough to qualify unless we get a lot of luck favoured on our side.

Our wings and cm are simply not good enough for the modern game.

We're 'okay'. 

Best Greek players right now are Manolas, Sokratis, Holebas, Fortounis, Vlachodimos

5 decent players is not enough for knock out round tourny football. We will simply be 'competitive' in qualifeirs.

The euro 2004 team was much better and Greek league was much better too. AEK/PAO/OLY were all competitive in champions league.

This is first time I'm saying this as I'm often more optimistic for qualifying. Italy/Bosnia/Finland will all give us troubles.

Edited by georgelaz
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5 hours ago, georgelaz said:

Slightly sobering but I think we don't have the players good enough to qualify unless we get a lot of luck favoured on our side.

Our wings and cm are simply not good enough for the modern game.

We're 'okay'. 

Best Greek players right now are Manolas, Sokratis, Holebas, Fortounis, Vlachodimos

5 decent players is not enough for knock out round tourny football. We will simply be 'competitive' in qualifeirs.

The euro 2004 team was much better and Greek league was much better too. AEK/PAO/OLY were all competitive in champions league.

This is first time I'm saying this as I'm often more optimistic for qualifying. Italy/Bosnia/Finland will all give us troubles.

I have to agree with everything you said. If you think about it’s true. Debating whether Samaris, Kourbelis or Galanopoulos to start is like beating a dead horse. None of them are difference makers. We are very weak in this department. More than the wing. The wing is very bad also. We can’t just rely on Mitroglou either. He goes missing most of the time. As you said we need huge luck for us to qualify. I don’t see us realistically qualifying for the Euros. We should just completely revamp the team and set us up for the future. Lamprou is in form. Chatzigiovannis and Bouzoukis have led Panathinaikos this season. Donis is our future and Koutris can be our left back for the next 5-10 years. I like Kyriakopoulos aswell. Some of these players are not completely there yet in their careers but we haven’t made tournaments with Mantalos, Bakasetas, Pelkas, Samaris, Tachtsidis and so on. 

We always say If we beat Bosnia we will qualify. But don’t forget that Italy is involved and we don’t do that good against smaller teams. This team needs to be treated more than what it is. Like a club. Management or whatever should be tracking our players continuously and making sure they follow their routines and are playing and also helping them. It has to be run like it’s a number 1 priority.

Edited by Dean97
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I would also like to point out when choosing your squad you logically should be choosing players that are inform. Also picking 3 left backs dosent make sense. You o lot really need 1 or 2 max. There are players that are versatile and can play 2 positions for example Retsos. Manolas, Sokratis and Kyriakos when healthy are the 3 you would choose. No point picking someone your not going to use when you can use that spot to call a winger for example. 

Which leads me to my next point. Do Pelkas, Mantalos and Fortounis need to be all on the team let alone the starting 11? Under Skibbe he played Mantalos at RW for nearly the whole qualifiers. He also didn’t utilise Lazaros at the time which was his mistake. We know now that Pelkas and Mantalos don’t work outwide so why do it again??

instead pick wide players that play there like inform Lamprou and Chatzigiovannis. Call one of Pelkas or Mantalos to be back up to Fortounis. Masouras can be the other back up for the wing for now. You also only need 2 strikers and 2 keepers.4 Fbs altogether too. 3 cbs 2 dms 2 cms and so on. 

 

Something like this 

Vlachodimos, Barkas, Gianniotis 

Torosidis, Bakakis, Manolas, Sokratis, Kyriakos, Retsos, Koutris, Tsimikas

Kourbelis, Galanopoulos, Zeca, Samaris, Fortounis, Pelkas

Masouras, Chatzigiovannis, Lamprou 

Mitroglou, Donis, Koulouris

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5 hours ago, Dean97 said:

I would also like to point out when choosing your squad you logically should be choosing players that are inform. Also picking 3 left backs dosent make sense. You o lot really need 1 or 2 max. There are players that are versatile and can play 2 positions for example Retsos. Manolas, Sokratis and Kyriakos when healthy are the 3 you would choose. No point picking someone your not going to use when you can use that spot to call a winger for example. 

Which leads me to my next point. Do Pelkas, Mantalos and Fortounis need to be all on the team let alone the starting 11? Under Skibbe he played Mantalos at RW for nearly the whole qualifiers. He also didn’t utilise Lazaros at the time which was his mistake. We know now that Pelkas and Mantalos don’t work outwide so why do it again??

instead pick wide players that play there like inform Lamprou and Chatzigiovannis. Call one of Pelkas or Mantalos to be back up to Fortounis. Masouras can be the other back up for the wing for now. You also only need 2 strikers and 2 keepers.4 Fbs altogether too. 3 cbs 2 dms 2 cms and so on. 

 

Something like this 

Vlachodimos, Barkas, Gianniotis 

Torosidis, Bakakis, Manolas, Sokratis, Kyriakos, Retsos, Koutris, Tsimikas

Kourbelis, Galanopoulos, Zeca, Samaris, Fortounis, Pelkas

Masouras, Chatzigiovannis, Lamprou 

Mitroglou, Donis, Koulouris

Ya guys as much as it hurts me to say this, the reality is we can sit here and debate for days who to start but the truth in the matter is the results wont change. We simply don't have a good enough all around team to compete for this tournament. As much as I cant wait for the qualifiers to start I truly seeing us competing with Finland for 3rd at best.. We are looking for a bandied solution to fix this team and unfortunately that doesn't work.. Our midfield is weak and not on the level of most successful team, We have no wingers and we cant score goals.  The truth is we deserve to be this low in the fifa rankings and I feel we will keep falling further and further down. Many guys have said it and failed to want to believe it but the reality is the dark ages are now for this team and its going to take years to turn it around..

Edited by J1078
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Guys Greece are not that far off. They went into Belgium against one of the best sides in the world and were a few minutes from a victory while reduced to 10 men. We were a playoff round away from getting to the World Cup and lost to a very technical and skilled Croatia. The team lost the first leg due to the corrupt decision of FIFA to suspend Manolas and Skibbes stupidities were to much to overcome.

Bosnia are a good side but many so called "pundits" expected them to come in 2nd last time around and they didn't. The same Bosnia also went into Belgium and got pasted 4-0 and lost to Belgium's B side in Zenica again giving up 4 goals. The Bosnians have good attacking players but once again there attention to defensive side of the game will be there downfall.

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2 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

Guys Greece are not that far off. They went into Belgium against one of the best sides in the world and were a few minutes from a victory while reduced to 10 men. We were a playoff round away from getting to the World Cup and lost to a very technical and skilled Croatia. The team lost the first leg due to the corrupt decision of FIFA to suspend Manolas and Skibbes stupidities were to much to overcome.

Bosnia are a good side but many so called "pundits" expected them to come in 2nd last time around and they didn't. The same Bosnia also went into Belgium and got pasted 4-0 and lost to Belgium's B side in Zenica again giving up 4 goals. The Bosnians have good attacking players but once again there attention to defensive side of the game will be there downfall.

I hope you’re right bro.. The problem is we don’t have a set line up and system and it will be tough to figure all of these things out in such a big Tourney.. We are going in not knowing what style of play we are going to play or which players will start and that will take time to come together it doesn’t happen overnight..

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good point. want to add that list that Donis is a difference maker but dude is injured half our games.

kpaps was like that too but he's been massing so long.

also stafylidis.

besides cm and wing problem. we'vd had injury problems.

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That’s true @georgelaz our difference makers are always injured. Papadopoulos heading can be a difference maker. Stafylidis long shots are dangerous and Donis speed and skill is very good. 

@Ellada2004 We always show up against opposition better than us. Though we drew against and lost against Belgium and we drew twice to. Bosnia. Not good enough in my opinion of you want to make tournaments. It was a great effort though on those 2 matches.

@J1078 I agree with what you said. Our players aren’t good enough and haven’t adapted with the time and other aren’t simply good enough. Our midfielders are slow and are not creative. Fortounis is our only hope in this department and even he is not all that. With goal scoring we are relying on Mitroglou because he is the only one that score and no else. Also maybe Fortounis aswell but he is trying to create most of the time. Our wide players are not wide players and aren’t good enough as players to play there. Our actual wingers are still young. So I don’t see any inspiration really from our side. Our defence is good but they can only do so much. 

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5 hours ago, J1078 said:

I hope you’re right bro.. The problem is we don’t have a set line up and system and it will be tough to figure all of these things out in such a big Tourney.. We are going in not knowing what style of play we are going to play or which players will start and that will take time to come together it doesn’t happen overnight..

I am very hopeful this time will get into the Euro after missing the last two major tournaments. Skibbe is out and coach Ange should have better callups and a better system working with the likes of Basinas and now to with Giannakopoulos joining the coaching staff. Our toughest test will be Italy as they play a similar defensive style so that will be an interesting chess match plus Greece have not played them in along time. Even though Italy is not at the top of there game I expect them to be very hungry and determined with all the pressure they are under from there fans and the media in Italy to not miss another major tournament.

Bosnia as I said if we play smart and stifle there playmakers and wait for our chance to hit them for a goal then I believe will get a result on match day 2. Greece are very familiar with them and that will help.

Finland are improving but who do they have in there starting 11 that is a threat? The only player I can think of is Teemu Pukki but he is no Jari Litmanen.

Armenia should be six points in the bank if the team is focused.

Liechtenstein will be the door mat of the group but hopefully here Greece can squeeze out a few 2 or 3 nil wins.

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Apart from : Galanopoulos in the midfield
Masouras, Lamprou( i ve been talking about him long before he started producing so well in Netherlands, Its not like Im blindfolded from some youth scoring some goals), Limnios on the wings, Maybe Vrousai if he gets chances in bigger teams/leagues.
Koutris on the back

Koulouris

We have noone else to introduce to the team for the next 1,5 year.

Hopefully the Sokratis/Manolas duo still stands till the Euros. Torosidis missing will be a huge problem but Retsos can stay there in the matches vs better opponents and he is defensively good. I prefer Stafylidis as a starter his team is doing s%$#! but the fact that immediately after his injury he was given a starter spot and barely misses playing time shows he s worhty of midable bundesliga.
Id like a 3-5-2 since our fullbacks are either too good offensively and mediocre on the back( Koutris,Stafylidis- even holebas with his so rumored return) . No proper right back with torosidis actually seeming too little even for Olympiakos back up, so maybe put a winger on the right with lungs and man to man like Limnios. Definately sub him after 60 because he ll be dead.

Hope Anastasiadis changes stuff. Even if it doesnt end up as we d like to. I think this team needs a restart. I wouldnt judge him bad if he failed trying to change. I would criticise a lot if he kept the same s%$#! and hoped something changed on its own.
 

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Gala and Kourb may be our best options but that it still a very weak combo playing against Bosnia and Italy..  we are so weak in that position... Masouras I think we need to see more of but I would take him over Mantalos ,Bak, or Pelkas on the wing..

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3 hours ago, J1078 said:

Gala and Kourb may be our best options but that it still a very weak combo playing against Bosnia and Italy..  we are so weak in that position... Masouras I think we need to see more of but I would take him over Mantalos ,Bak, or Pelkas on the wing..

Wouldn't mind seeing coach Ange give Masouras a look...

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Drop Pelkas on the wings and Lazaros in general. Just drop him . 34 year old winger what exactly are we expecting from him?
3-5-2

Vlachodimos 

Manolas - Sokratis Siovas

Retsos - Samaris - Zeka - Stafylidis

                      Fortounis

                 Mitroglou - Donis

 

Can easily sub a CB off if we re hunting a score and change it to 4-2-3-1

 

Subs/Rotation:
GK: Kapino(this guy is honestly a good GK but no playtime, Give him time and he ll show), Karnezis, Paschalakis

Fullbacks:Holebas(starter if he comes of course)Koutris,  and if they re injured we got Giannoulis/Lykogiannits/Tsimikas. I honestly cant think of a decent Right back. Bakakis has proven to be a borderline flop. Torosidis needs to come as the leader of this team and the guy who s joined 2 Euro cups and 2 World cups with the team.

Centerbacks: I think all of our 4 decent and ready CBs are in the lineup. Probably trying to introduce players like Mavropanos,Hatzidiakos, maybe Risvanis and Hatziisaias as well. No point to call mediocre players like Kolovetsios,Oikonomou at their late 20s. Risv and Hatzi are also 25 and still havent shown to be anything too good like Retsos and Manolas proved from their youth. Kyriakos is also an option but he seemed a bit few vs Croatia and Bosnia/Italy are in our Group.

Midfield: Well apart from Kourbelis, Galanopoulos and maybe Tachtsidis if he decides to restart his career properly. He is actually performing quite well in Serie B and they re on their way for promotion. He is good when used with quick wingers and a tower in the midfield but he is just another mediocre at best player. Having noone else though makes him look like a luxury.

AMFs-Wingers: Pelkas, Masouras,Chatzigiovanis,Bouzoukis, Limnios, Lamprou, and follow Vrousai career coz the others have been here and there for a a couple of years producing consistently.

CF: Koulouris

 

This is a group of around 34 players and I wouldnt pick any more at all. Atleast till the end of this season. Some of the youth will probably be introduced now because there is no U-21 qualifiers and they were always called for the matches from Nikopolidis to qualify for U21.

 

Edited by Rockafeller Skank
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^ I agree about Tzimikas I watched him closely vs Dynamo and he was getting beat easily and making bad passes on simple plays.

At forward Ange has to go to Mitroglou as he is proven to net us our goals. Koulouris has been in great form for Atromitos and will see the field if we are in need of a goal.

Less than a month away until Greece play Bosnia cant wait! PA ME ELLADA!!!

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3 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

^ I agree about Tzimikas I watched him closely vs Dynamo and he was getting beat easily and making bad passes on simple plays.

At forward Ange has to go to Mitroglou as he is proven to net us our goals. Koulouris has been in great form for Atromitos and will see the field if we are in need of a goal.

Less than a month away until Greece play Bosnia cant wait! PA ME ELLADA!!!

I hope things go well this time around.

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17 hours ago, AchillesHeel said:

Guys....Retsos is injured and no one knows when he'll be back and at what level he'll be at. The only good thing is that his thigh injuries have been to different legs. Samaris has been getting game time of late starting the last 6 league games (most recent game as CB) so although I don't personally rate him I would include him in the team ahead of.... say ......Tziolis :cool:. At leftback Koutris and Tzimikas have been inconsistent for Oly and thats why they keep switching back and forth between the 2....one day they're  tagged with 30 mill transfer price and the next they're ridiculed as incompetent. Both are defensive liabilities but both are young and can improve. Lykogiannis hasn't been getting much game time of late but Staf has worked his way back into the starting rotation at Augsburg so he warrants consideration. Kourbelis/Zeca in the midfield seem to be our most solid options although both lack quality going forward but they can provide coverage for more offensive minded FBs like Koutris, Tzimikas, Staf etc. RB position is admittedly problematic. Koulouris seems to be having the break through season  providing the NT with viable option to Mitroglou....Factor in the youth and the options are there in every position so its up to Angelo to put together a line up that can perform well together and the players to put in the effort to get the team back on track. Personally I'm mildly hopeful.

We can put Koutris at RB because he played their a few days ago. He won’t be as effective because he is left footed. But an option to consider which them leaves Lykogiannis, Stafylidis and Tsimikas to battle over the LB spot. Kyriakopoulos I would like to see tried but I’m not sure if it will happen. 

I strongly hope that we see something more from our midfielders. I actually would like to see Samaris and Galanopoulos given a shot together. But we also have to be realistic and say to ourselves what will change this time around? We can change the speed of our players because what they lack. Kourbelis and Zeca are hard runners but lack the quality going forward and also too slow in passing. We haven’t got real control in the middle. Someone with great technical ability and an eye for a good pass. 

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I agree actually but the national team has been having fullbacks after the 2004 era who were mediocre at best defensively.

Holebas was like Koutris in his youth, offensively too good but mediocre defensively AT BEST. This is exactly the reason why IMHO putting a 3rd CB could be able to unlcok our fullbacks full potential. They have the lungs to track back when needed and they ll have the free choice to move forward and cross or man to man which unironically Koutris is too good at.

Our NT's biggest problem is actually the transition. Getting the ball forward quickly. These guys are good offensively and they can definately help with that. It's gonna be like we have 2 extra midfielders on the wings and 2 more options for Fortounis to pass to and not have to go back to take the ball and carry it himself.

 

However, the biggest issue we have to hope is that at least one or two of the guys we have on the wings actually make a career we hope them to make , Lamprou, Limnios, Chatzigiovanis, Bouzoukis. I would be quite devastated if they all ended up Greek Super League flops. Even Koulouris and Donis, we should hope they dont get suddently lost to mediocricy. 

I believe there is actually a lot of talent which if managed properly (Managers guiding them for a good career and not for some extra cash in their pockets and coaches properly teaching them how to play the damn ball) I can see us back on track with our previous success decade, where we barely missed any major tournament.

 

 

Edited by Rockafeller Skank
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The best way to judge this group of players is by playing the most inform players and players in their correct position. If that is not the answer then we would have to put blame on our players because they are simply not good enough. So, from the nations league up until now this is the team we should see going into the first match. I’m taking into account who has played, scored, assisted and in form from that time period. 

Vlachodimos

Koutris Manolas Sokratis Stafylidis 

Galanopoulos Samaris

Lamprou Fortounis Donis

(??? Either Mitro or Koulouris)

We all know Koulouris deserves to be in the team. He is having an incredible season. Mitroglou will still be there because of the career he has had. Lamprou has been scoring nearly every 3 matches and has been preforming well in Holland. He should be starting. Donis has come back from injuries and scored against Bayern and has been playing. Also they are both wingers and play abroad which is important. 

Galanopoulos should start based on the fact he is played many European matches for his age and is constantly playing at AEK. Samaris has sort of rejuvenated his career in a way at Benfica. Zeca and Kourbelis have played aswell but you can only have 2 there. 

Fortounis since the nations league and until now has been way more in form then Pelkas and Mantalos. He has scored, played and assisted more. He is a no brainer.

Koutris is the only one out of position. He is the only one who has been more impressive than Torosids and Tsimikas at Olympiakos. Lykogiannis is back and playing so another option at RB since we have too many LBs. Stafylidis is back and playing but I am questioning this as he isn’t really inform but he is playing. Also we have to factor in Kyriakopoulos as he could be an option. 

The rest is self explanatory. We have tried Kourbelis and Zeca and that hasnt seem to work so well. It’s now time to try Samaris and Galanopoulos. Let’s see how we would do with actual wingers in Donis and Lamprou. 

If we can’t do it with this line up then we really have no hope because the players I haven’t started have already either haven’t worked or are not ready yet. If this team i put can’t do the job well really don’t have a chance in my opinion. Let’s see this time around what happens because I really hope things turn to be good or we would have to wait 10 years for our next generation to lead us into a tournament.

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8 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

You dont put a Left Back as right back unless you have to. Koutris will not be our Right back. Rrather have Retsos or Bakakis.

Retsos is still injured. Bakakis is not good enough in my opinion but if we have to put him there, then put him there. I just thought there are too many options at LBs, might aswell put someone there. 

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