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Bosnia V Greece


js1000

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clove, look i dont  know if the lineup i proposed would have won - experience (age) and soccer savy counts for alot.......but but but.........u MUsT commit to the future, right? and more importantly you MUST assemble a lineup that can figure out how to work together...good teams have an unspoken understanding of what everyone likes to do, where everybody likes to be, where they want the ball, etc.....throw in offensive minded guys with defensive minded guys and you stall - no rythym, no unity, no nothing.....

 

this game WE DID NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN OTHING   on offense....nothing......when was the last time we scored first ? (no including 0-0 games where we are the last team to score....) we play tight, relying on defense and perhaps catch a counter.....in the mean time we have no offesnsive plan, no way to put pressure on the other team, so the opposition sends everyone deep into our zone.....same old story......sweden, south korea, germany , etc etc etc.....until this changes, we can expect more of the same.......

 

until we get consistency in the lineup so everyone knows each others game, good call ups, commitment to the young players its gonna be the same thing......

 

holevas should not play so much...torosidis disappears.....kara should come on late...katourani also.....their roles should be reduced.  tsavella sucks, he got undressed on the high balls....avraam i never liked.....salpi needs help cant do anything alone....

 

 

 

mitro

fetfa  samaras (roaming)

nin  fourtouni taxidi

tsioli

pap  papa siova  toro

 

off the bench: kats, kara,(stall the game and protect a lead)  maniati, avraam, chrisoto, kone (fresh legs)

 

 

comimit to that and see what happens....

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off the bench: kats, kara,(stall the game and protect a lead) maniati, avraam, chrisoto, kone (fresh legs)

 

Mangas

 

You make a good point but will Kats and Kara go for this?

Maybe it's time to cut ties to them altogether.

 

Bosnia deserved this game, they played hard albeit not great; Greece did not look good.

Perhaps in the longer run this will serve the team better by ending up in 2nd place and , hopefully, winning the home and home series with whoever they get

matched up against. The extra meaningful games could serve the team well.

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jarv, dont know if they would go for it, but in a perfect idealistic world without egos & that "greek thing", you would think they would....an aging star is the hardest thing coaches have to deal with, in any sport. Ive seen greek players get ticked for the slightest reason and bail on the team...

 

but the bigger issue as i see it - from my very limited vantage point - is no identity with this team. who are they? the 04 team did  one thing great and played it to perfection...this team does nothing great...the defense  is above aveage to good, at best...the midfield collectively stinks, and their forward game is really non existent....so what do you get? 1-0 barely beating slovakia and undressed 3-1 in bosnia with squeakers against the rest...they get by on soccer savvy and an occasional quality play....but no conviction, no sense of "we are on the field to accomplish x,y,z,...." no plan, no nothing....its the mentality of the strategy...sit back, sit back, sit back...they NEVER initiate the game, always counter....problem is now their D is not as good any more and their transition game (mid) sucks......

 

but again, im not in the locker, i dont know who says what, who tells santos what, etc.etc....i only know 3-1 bosnia, 1-0 slovakia etc....ultimately the team is judged by results...right 12 FIFA rank is an absolute joke. 

 

yes - bonsia deserved the game, not because they played great..i agree, but because e absolutely sucked. like other have said, "you think you can string two passes together"? geeeez.....i dont get it...

Edited by mangas21
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avraaaammm (who i never liked) and tsiolis (who i do) both victimzed on the headers that went in....papastathopulos gets beat in the air alot as well.....papdopoulos was missed in that regard....and siovas or malezas  could be used as well given their  height....

 

isay it again

 

fetfa mitro  samaras (floating attak mid / right wing)

fourtounis  ninis  taxidis

tsilios

toro pap papa malezas

 

benck kara  kats  siovas  spyropouos  avraam christo  

 

do it....

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Not sure why anyone would think keeping Kats and Kara even on the bench is a good idea since they show game after endless game they can't cut it. They're not creative, they f uck up the whole team and they should have been retired by now! End of story!

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clove, i hear you. But don;t downplay leadership...Keeping them on the bench, they can come in and diffuse/slowdown the game to protect a lead..........besides most of the guys on the bench never play anyway......

 

but until the "sit back sit bak sit back" mentality changes we will never move into the elite team group.....the only way you can impose your will on a game is by creating offensive pressure or at least instilling some fear in the other team that they should not send their whole team into our box....we dont do that...we sit back like sitting ducks and let the other team create the flow and rythym.......we eat a goal and THEN turn up the volume, and sometimes we pull it out.....its remarkable that we have been successful with this style of play.......

 

i think this more than anything is the biggest contributor to greece's difficulty in cracking the elite team level......

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Mangas, 

an example of their "leadership" is what you just saw against a lousy Bosnian team. An example of their "leadership" is what you saw at Euro 2012 (so what if we advanced to the next round we played like s hit). 

 

The reason for the "sit back" mentality is because defense midfielders do just that; they won't open up and attack. If he continues to play defensive mids then you won't see anything different! Kats? Tziolis? Maniatis? Kara? Play Fetfa and Ninis and you won't see them sitting back, that is not their instinct or style, plain and simple. 

 

What do you mean its remarkable we've been successful with this style of play? We haven't been successful since 2004! Every appearance we've had in a Euro or WC since then has been trash! 

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avraaaammm (who i never liked) and tsiolis (who i do) both victimzed on the headers that went in....papastathopulos gets beat in the air alot as well.....papdopoulos was missed in that regard....and siovas or malezas  could be used as well given their  height....

mate avraam should never have been called up he's played about 3 games since he tore his knee and was no where near in shape to play, malezas who has been brilliant should have played instead but santos loves avraam and i believe would still have picked him even if k paps was fit, we were shaky defensively and malezas gives us that stability and calmness, santos also came to draw playing holebas in  a 4-5-1 was stupid when you consider we outplayed bosnia in athens, samaras was left with no support mitroglou and kone and fortounis should have all started but santos went for his favourites and when we were trailing he introduced maniatis, i think santos is to blame for this, in previous games he was more adventurous and the football and results were better. i'm absolutely gutted and we gotta wait ages now for the next game.

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Mangas, -------------Clove....

an example of their "leadership" is what you just saw against a lousy Bosnian team. An example of their "leadership" is what you saw at Euro 2012 (so what if we advanced to the next round we played like s hit). 

---------- dont confuse intangibles with skill level.....thats number 1, number 2 kara scored the goal that got us past russia......kats gave the clever pass to salpi gainst slovakia.....so give credit where its due.....BUT BUT i am NOT advocating that they have a prominent role anymore...their best ball is behind them.....we actually agree on most points....i think they should ride the bench and if we need to stall the game to protect a lead, then they are not bad options for that, especially if they come in fresh for the last ten minutes or whatever.......but their experience is valuable, and in a perfect world they should accpet a reduced role and give the younger guys the benefit of their experience...

now to say "so what" i think is misguided....when did we EVER advance beofre? I mean we were not even making into tournaments until now. Its unfair to say "if we dont go to the finals of every tournament its not a sucess" I disagree. Germany does that, Spain does that...heck even England gets bounced before the final eight sometimes....so to say "so what" and dismiss that accomplishment i disagree with.....

 

The reason for the "sit back" mentality is because defense midfielders do just that; they won't open up and attack. If he continues to play defensive mids then you won't see anything different! Kats? Tziolis? Maniatis? Kara? Play Fetfa and Ninis and you won't see them sitting back, that is not their instinct or style, plain and simple. 

--------------------I have a question about this....Does Santos tell them stay back, or do they not know how to play attacking ball? which is it? IS it santos fault they cant put two passes together?  I am curious to hear your answer on this, because frankly Tsilis for example was an attacking mid early on in his career. Gianakopulos who was an attacking mid always came back on defense...so isn't it the system of play that forces the mids to stay back? 

 

What do you mean its remarkable we've been successful with this style of play? We haven't been successful since 2004! Every appearance we've had in a Euro or WC since then has been trash! ---------------------success does not mean winning tournaments all the time, it means qualifying every time, and moving into the final 8 consistently and an occasional final 4 ......rememebr before 2004 we did nothing.......I was there in foxborough when we played argentina, nigeria and bulgaria......I can tell you greeck soccer has advanced big time since then....but, unless we keep a system that pushes and develops young talent, and we change the mentality of the way we play, you will continue to see these type of results.......

Edited by mangas21
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Mangas, -------------Clove....

an example of their "leadership" is what you just saw against a lousy Bosnian team. An example of their "leadership" is what you saw at Euro 2012 (so what if we advanced to the next round we played like s hit). 

---------- dont confuse intangibles with skill level.....thats number 1, number 2 kara scored the goal that got us past russia......kats gave the clever pass to salpi gainst slovakia.....so give credit where its due.....BUT BUT i am NOT advocating that they have a prominent role anymore...their best ball is behind them.....we actually agree on most points....i think they should ride the bench and if we need to stall the game to protect a lead, then they are not bad options for that, especially if they come in fresh for the last ten minutes or whatever.......but their experience is valuable, and in a perfect world they should accpet a reduced role and give the younger guys the benefit of their experience...

now to say "so what" i think is misguided....when did we EVER advance beofre? I mean we were not even making into tournaments until now. Its unfair to say "if we dont go to the finals of every tournament its not a sucess" I disagree. Germany does that, Spain does that...heck even England gets bounced before the final eight sometimes....so to say "so what" and dismiss that accomplishment i disagree with.....

 

The reason for the "sit back" mentality is because defense midfielders do just that; they won't open up and attack. If he continues to play defensive mids then you won't see anything different! Kats? Tziolis? Maniatis? Kara? Play Fetfa and Ninis and you won't see them sitting back, that is not their instinct or style, plain and simple. 

--------------------I have a question about this....Does Santos tell them stay back, or do they not know how to play attacking ball? which is it? IS it santos fault they cant put two passes together?  I am curious to hear your answer on this, because frankly Tsilis for example was an attacking mid early on in his career. Gianakopulos who was an attacking mid always came back on defense...so isn't it the system of play that forces the mids to stay back? 

 

What do you mean its remarkable we've been successful with this style of play? We haven't been successful since 2004! Every appearance we've had in a Euro or WC since then has been trash! ---------------------success does not mean winning tournaments all the time, it means qualifying every time, and moving into the final 8 consistently and an occasional final 4 ......rememebr before 2004 we did nothing.......I was there in foxborough when we played argentina, nigeria and bulgaria......I can tell you greeck soccer has advanced big time since then....but, unless we keep a system that pushes and develops young talent, and we change the mentality of the way we play, you will continue to see these type of results.......

No, defensive mids can't play like creative attackers; thats why we call them defensive mids! Different style of play.

 

I know success doesn't mean winning tournaments; my point is for the most part we've played like s hit since 2004. Just advancing is not good enough; the team has to PLAY. 

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clove, so u either a defensive mid or an attacking mid? pushing to the top of the box is irrelvant? just asking, not being a wiseass, cuase i dont the answer....if santos said, ok guys push deeper into the zone, would they be i a more attacking posture?

 

s04 set the bar waaay to high and everyone expected us to be like that from that point forward. Obviously that  dreaming....but yes a few games we played like s hit, i agree...but a few games we didnt...litchemstein playes like s hit, moldova palyes like s hit...just because we lost to argentina 2-0 means we [played like s hit? if u say, its disappointing that we could not advance further , yes, i agrree , but to say we play like s%$#!, well then how did we qualify? 

 

if u read my previous posts, i am very tough on this team - i am NOT a rost colored glasses fan...does the team pi sss me off? yes...of course...do i think we could play more consistently? dont know the answer...i know we play one way...sit back, sit back, dig a hole and sometimes dig ourselves out and sometimes we dont...unless we come out with urgency and will LIKE WE ARE ALREADY down, i see more of the same

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Oxi mono thn Argentina, thn tesara apo thn Germania thn thimaste? NTROPH APERIGRAPTH kai ta gol htan to ligotero, o fovos kai xasimo se auga kai pasxalia itan h varia ypotimisi!!

 

I agree with Clover, for the most part we do play like s hit. I simply don't believe we possess the quality players, and the work ethic/burning desire necessary to remain competative in world level football. Paliatsoi ws synithws!

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I think this game we lost to the Bosnians is the bursting of a bubble we were all in. We keep making tournaments because we keep getting easy groups. Well now, we're in an easy group again, only now, we probably won't qualify. This NT is not being run the right way. Without new blood, you don't go anywhere. Good on the Bosnians for teaching us a lesson. Let's see if we learned anything.

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I agree with most of you about the way Greece plays. I couldn't get anyone who isn't Greek but likes soccer to watch matches with Greece. Horrible play, not enjoyable! There are a few teams out there that I like watching because they entertain the soccer fan in me.

 

Again, I'd rather not see Greece in a major tourney getting blasted, so unless they can (that's a big IF) pick up game, they shouldn't go to the most premier national stage and get humiliated.

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point is greece were outstanding against bosnia at home and were brilliant against lithuania also, so we can play good football the problem this time round was team selection and formation which santos must take responsibility for, santos' team selections in those earlier games were far more bold and offensive and it paid off i don't know why he got it so wrong this time, i mentioned it before kick off when i saw the line ups, it was obvious to all of us but not to santos. even the substitutions he made were terrible. 

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we can slice and dice the details until we are blue in the face........bottom line is u never know what team will show up...thats partly due to call ups, partly due to tactics and largely due to "do just enough to get by".....this is how we play....sit back, get pounded, absorb pressure and find an opening to counter. this is what we do as far back as I can remember.....this style works if you have rock solid D (which we dont anymore, especially when avraaam and that other guy who caused the penalty in Bosnia) and mids that can TRANSITION the paly well - not even play box to box - just transition the play quickly....this requires some type of offensive urgnecy, forwards that attack open space off the ball....all of which we dont have...

 

santos has a bad sense of chemistry - he puts guys in that dont compliment each other....greece now looks more like a bunch of parts not in sync, rather than a cohesive unit.....

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