Jump to content
Phantis Forums

Playoffs 2011


athinaios

Recommended Posts

The order of the games hasn't been decided yet, but unless PAO plays like crap, they'll get to the CL next season. However, I think the only good thing will be the money that the club will take in. I just don't think this team has any chance of doing well in Europe, since everything is in the air.

I guess Ferreira will stay, but many players will leave and several will come (cheaper ones).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have a feeling this season will end in the worst way, as it started, and we will not make the CL.

the entire team needs get to get theirs heads out of their asses if we want to finish first. frankly, we need the money so this is very important.

boumsong and kante will be missing the first match and leto will have to select two to miss...

although i disagree with this whole 'play-off' process, i think there will be some good games. in honesty though, the play-off is pretty ridiculous. the point of a season and a table is to be a judge of a teams performance for the whole year, not the product of 6 games, in quick succession at the end of the season...the league and football in general is judged on consistancy in the grand scheme of things...how can a +10/+12 difference in the regular season equate to a +3 in the playoff? if aek or paok were in second with a +10 i would be saying the same thing. the team that finishes second deserves the CL spot. its a simple as that.

there needs to be some serious changes to this league and this, i believe is one. expand the league, eliminate the play-off, play more regular season games. more steps not only makes the title more difficult to win, but increases competition at the top and bottom of the leagues. obviously other more important changes are needed in regards to competition, violence, refereeing and general character of the teams, league and people running both. things need to get done, i think its a bad idea to have the president of a team be the president of the league (pateras/marinakis), and have characters such as beos as a representative of our league. more neutrality is needed in general. our league is not progressing this way and anyone who thinks that it is, is delusional to me...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the play offs. Adds some excitement to what is usually a dire league. If it was a knockout play-off, like a cup competition, then i'd say it's very unfair. But this is essentially a continuation of the league.

- It ensures that the league stays competitive for longer. If the play offs didn't exist PAO's season would have been over long ago.

- It's good for smaller clubs because it gives them a dream to reach for.

- If another club does make it into the CL via the playoffs it's a good way of redistributing wealth and making the league more competitive. PAOK came very close to knocking out Ajax this year. If they'd managed to make it they'd have received a lot of money and not be in a position where they are thinking about selling Vitolo (to Olympiakos of all teams) and Vierinha. Instead they'd have tied up their contracts and brought better players, improving the Greek league.

- It also keeps PAO and Olympiakos on their toes. Olympiakos knew they couldn't afford to miss out on the CL again so they made some positive signings. In theory at least.

- It's a good advert for the Greek league. I have English friends asking me, "when are the play-offs?". "Did Aris make it in or did that fake Olympiakos team?" :LOL: It generates interest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I don't know if you guys agree, but PAO has a golden opportunity to put an early end to these playoffs. We drew PAOK away, first, and then AEK. Two victories and it's over. Obviously it's easier said than done, but I don't see why PAO can't put PAOK out at Touba.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so then really the only point of the WHOLE season, the league and table is to determine the champion?

No. You say that because you're looking at it from quite an egotistical point of view, that is to say, from PAO's point of view. If we had a regular first past the post division, the Greek league would have been over after the Athens derby on the 19th of February! It would also monopolize the Greek league forever. As Olympiakos and PAO would be the only teams making the CL. The two sets of budgets would grow according to who makes it to the group stages and the gap between the top 2 and the rest of the league will get even wider. Eventually we'll end up with a league like the Scottish League, i.e. laughable!

Whereas this current scenario makes it even more priceless to win the league. However once the champions are confirmed it's still essential to keep fighting to secure a better position for the play offs. Then once the play offs begin it's an all out war for that champions league spot. If Atromitos had won the cup, then the play offs would have been even more exciting because the last place in the play offs meant no europe. So whoever would have finished 5th in the league (in this case Volos) would start the play off merely 3 points off of the Champions League, but also with the prospect of not being in Europe at all. I really don't understand how you can't see the excitement in that compared to a season that would have been effectively over in Ferbruary!

Let's not forget that when shocks do happen, like last year when PAOK finished 2nd it gave them a great chance to make the CL. They were very unlucky to miss out, going out on away goals to Ajax. If they had made it and earned

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the playoff is just a continuation of the FARCE that is the greek super league. it is a poor solution to a long term problem.

Well the farce may be cancelled!

EPO have decided enough is enough with violence in football and may cancel the playoffs.

Frankly, I hope they are: the team that finished second after 30 games should not lose its place after 6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree Irlande ... tbh the playoffs are better for AEK of course, because we can lose nothing (having won the cup, we will have the best spot for the Europa League), but we do stand to gain something (CL spot).

However I think the playoffs are really unnecessary and, to me as well, feel like they make the year's league obsolete ...

Anyway of course, whether you are pro or against the play offs, these measures are completely retarded. Cancelling or postponing playoffs no one really cares about won't really make people less violent, it's treating the symptom, not the cause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes. i love football. i would watch even if pao were mid-table and had no chance at anything...

and btw, euro. i am not looking at it from an egotistical point of view bc i thought the same thing was the case last year when oly finished second...i felt the same way from the first year they instilled the playoffs up till today, regardless of who it benefited or disadvantaged...dont assume to know how i think and what i believe...

i have said it a million times..the playoff is a short term solution to a growing overall long term issue in greek football..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Relax re, i didn't mean it in an insulting way. I'm simply saying if you were a fan of PAOK, Volos, Aris, Kavala, etc, you'd look at things differently. I guarantee you Toumba will be packed to the rafters and so will Volos for the play offs. Also you saying you weren't in favour of the play offs last season when Olymp finished 2nd doesn't really mean much, because the majority of the time PAO finish 2nd. If you supported a team that consistently finished 4th-5th you might have a different view point.

Do you at least accept that the traditional system will simply mean that the gap between the top 2 and the rest of the league will continue to grow? Bare in mind UEFA have introduced rules that means a club can only spend according to how much they earn. So next season Olympiakos will have alot more to spend than PAOK, that will probably mean they finish top 2 again, while PAOK will miss out. So the cycle will continue the following season. While Olympiakos will be able to spend

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't like the playoffs.

On the other hand, why not include the first finisher to really make it interesting???!!! As it is, the first team (like this year) finishes well ahead in points, and often the champ is known by Jan or Feb.

Realistically, there are only 2 teams that maybe can play in the CL. The other Greek teams don't have a good chance, I don't even think they believe they can qualify either. As it is, the gap between the powerhouses in Europe (half a dozen teams) and the rest is growing.

And, with a crappy domestic league the Greek teams won't be able to compete on a high level. I don't know if you're aware of this, but at least in Europe they know about the Greek league's crappiness. Good players won't be coming unless they're unknown, or will come for the retirement package. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what im saying is it doesnt matter who is in the playoff, i dont like it..the fact that pao is a second alot makes no difference...i care about the benefit of greek football..not just about pao...i dont know how else to explain it really...you seem to know more about myself than i do! :D

it seems everyone feels the same way...even the aek fans..even most fans ive talked to about this :whistle:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't like the playoffs.

On the other hand, why not include the first finisher to really make it interesting???!!! As it is, the first team (like this year) finishes well ahead in points, and often the champ is known by Jan or Feb.

Realistically, there are only 2 teams that maybe can play in the CL. The other Greek teams don't have a good chance, I don't even think they believe they can qualify either. As it is, the gap between the powerhouses in Europe (half a dozen teams) and the rest is growing.

And, with a crappy domestic league the Greek teams won't be able to compete on a high level. I don't know if you're aware of this, but at least in Europe they know about the Greek league's crappiness. Good players won't be coming unless they're unknown, or will come for the retirement package. ;)

Yes but this is exactly why we need the play offs. The traditional system meant we'd always have the same 2 teams, and like you say the league would be over by January or February. That is a lot more likely to further damage the reputation of the Greek league internationally, particularly as the other teams would weaken financially.

Guys it's simple maths. UEFA have introduced laws which force clubs to stay within their budget, based on what they earn. PAOK came very close to making the CL last year, and if they get a favourable draw they can do it. PAOK would indeed have a great chance against the likes of Lazio, Hannover, Villarreal, Twente, PSG, Trabzonspor, Standard Lierge, etc. The idea that they are unable to qualify simply isn't true. They are solid away from home and at Toumba can be competitive with near enough anyone. But to get back to the point, if PAOK or AEK did make it they would become an AWFUL lot stronger over night because of the money they'd receive. While Oly or PAO would have to curb their spending, PAOK would spend big and improve, making the league much more competitive. Having a competitive league is key and the only way to do that is to introduce the unpredictability of the play offs.

In terms of including the 1st placed team in the play offs two, that would mean either the Cypriot example, where the league continues with the points they finished on. In this case the league would essentially be over now anyway. So the only other option would be to do something similar to what we do now with regards to distributing points, i.e. 1st starts with 5 points, 2nd starts with 4 points, etc. Now that would be unfair because it's not a spot in Europe at stake but the actual title. You'd also struggle to get the big 2 to agree to such a deal. Furthermore Olympiakos have known for some time that they would finish first and we'd be 2nd, both teams would have started resting players from ages ago to prepare for the play offs. So it would also kill the league early.

I think the current system is best and i'd be gutted to see it go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched on and off.... Wasted my time basically. Some chances but this is not a team that can play in Europe.

Final, PAO-AEK 1-1. AEK scored twice! <_<

PAOK 6

AEK 5

PAO 4

If PAO hadn't started with 3 points advantage, they would have just 1 point now. Terrible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who cares whats fair and whats unfair.

If we can't beat AEK and PAOK we do not deserve to be playing and/or humiliating ourselves in Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who cares whats fair and whats unfair.

If we can't beat AEK and PAOK we do not deserve to be playing and/or humiliating ourselves in Europe.

That's actually a very good point. No champions league group will be weaker than than the Greek play off group, if we can't even win this with a 3 point head start then what good would we be in the CL
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still don't know why I wasted about 1 hour of my time watching Volos-PAO.

Volos won fair and square. This is a team that made the playoffs by beating PAO for a second time on the last league game. Now it's the 3rd time.

Honestly, I thought the PAO players hadn't played on the same team before. Out of position, couldn't exchange the ball, didn't cover, etc, etc...

Shame.

And, maybe one of the Volos goal was off side but PAO was the worse team on the pitch. And, yes, not having leadership in the club hurts but it's upsetting to hear players blaming others than themselves for this horrendous performance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... but it's upsetting to hear players blaming others than themselves for this horrendous performance.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, the biggest plague in Greek football is not hooliganism, it's not the relatively small crowds, it's not the refereeing. These things are indeed problems, but the biggest plague is the poor mentality, starting from the media, seeping through to the players and the fans. Before the play-offs began Ninis said the play offs were a "diadikasia". Can you seriously imagine England's top teams saying "league's over, can't be bothered for the chase for a champions league spot. It's a chore!" ?

There's clearly a split in these boards as to whether the play offs are beneficial or not and i'm in the minority for saying they are a good thing. Nonetheless, regardless of whether they are a good thing or not, surely as a professional football player you should be salivating at the prospect of so many big games? Their adrenalin should be pumping for an opportunity to beat the rest to a champions league spot. The only reason it wouldn't be is if you're not a natural winner, i.e. a loser! Perhaps that's the reason Ninis is still in Greece, destined to under-achieve just like the other 95% of Greek talent. It's inexcusable that PAO loses to an inferior team like Volos 3 times in a season, inexcusable! Regardless of what's going on in the board, they are professionals getting paid tens of thousands every single week to carry out what is supposed to be their dream job, in a time of austerity no less! Their attitude is a disgrace and i don't use that word lightly, they are literally a disgrace and should be ashamed to show their faces in public. I'm particularly disgusted at Ninis for his statements and subsequent performances. Who does he think he is? He's destined to be a bum!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This team won't be ready for euro play. Many players will leave others will come and back to square one. Ferreira is history if the team doesn't win the playoffs--an increasingly unlikely scenario. They're mathematically in it because of the +3 points when they began. In 3 games they got only 1 point. We hope PAOK beats AEK and we get 3x3=9 points. I have no confidence in this team.

However you measure it, it's incredibly ridiculous that PAO hasn't gotten 1 point out of Volos in 3 games! It's not an accident. Then the question is: Why spend all this money? I'm sure Volos' budget is what PAO spends for popcorn.

But, who knows, maybe we'll be like gavroi last season when they lost the playoffs and came back to win the title. :blink:

Yet, it's in Europe that a team shows what it's made of..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This team won't be ready for euro play. Many players will leave others will come and back to square one. Ferreira is history if the team doesn't win the playoffs--an increasingly unlikely scenario. They're mathematically in it because of the +3 points when they began. In 3 games they got only 1 point. We hope PAOK beats AEK and we get 3x3=9 points. I have no confidence in this team.

However you measure it, it's incredibly ridiculous that PAO hasn't gotten 1 point out of Volos in 3 games! It's not an accident. Then the question is: Why spend all this money? I'm sure Volos' budget is what PAO spends for popcorn.

But, who knows, maybe we'll be like gavroi last season when they lost the playoffs and came back to win the title. :blink:

Yet, it's in Europe that a team shows what it's made of..

Before this round of games everyone was praising Havos, now they want him sacked. That's the Greek mentality for you! So of course Ferreira will go. To rebuild PAO, and i hate to say it, but we need to get rid of the Greek players. They are a disruptive influence.

Yet, it's in Europe that a team shows what it's made of..

This is a myth and it's damaging when we continue to perpertuate it. We had a good season in 08/09 making the last 16 of the CL. In 2002 we made the last 8 of the CL. That's 2 impressive European campaigns in the last decade. We have under achieved big time. The only reason we consider it a success is because we compare ourselves to Olympiakos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm, the domestic league is crappy, and you're saying that European competition doesn't matter?

When I said, it's in Europe that a team shows what's made of, I meant that if you have a good team you prove it in Europe not in the domestic league. It wasn't meant to brag for PAO in the last season, and I was indicating that this team it's not ready for big euro time next season either.

The media mention Donis and Anastasiadis, both Greek, to replace Fereira. So, they want to bring in someone who understands the Greek mentality and the league.

Whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm, the domestic league is crappy, and you're saying that European competition doesn't matter?

When I said, it's in Europe that a team shows what's made of, I meant that if you have a good team you prove it in Europe not in the domestic league. It wasn't meant to brag for PAO in the last season, and I was indicating that this team it's not ready for big euro time next season either.

The media mention Donis and Anastasiadis, both Greek, to replace Fereira. So, they want to bring in someone who understands the Greek mentality and the league.

Whatever.

Oh sorry, i misunderstood what you meant.

I believe bringing in a Greek manager is the wrong tactic. We need managers that will change the mentality, like Otto did, not someone that will simply reinforce it!

The play offs are starting to get really exciting. If we are to keep Cisse i think we need to make the CL.

Table looks like this with 2 games to play:

PAOK 9

AEK 8

PAO 7

Volos 3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...