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Bad Season for PAO. What's ahead? Transfers?


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we will not replace gilberto with someone that will make 1.5 million. that wont happen, we dont have the economic security to do so. we wont do it and we frankly dont have the power to do it. that does not mean we have to downgrade. we can replace him with someone cheaper we just have to create a different plan. we will sign a player who will make 800,000 or a million for his position, thats just the way it is. im not talking about diamonds in the rough, im talking about players that will make a good TEAM together as a unit..there is a big difference. someone like mattos for instance. copenhagen are a good example and they were very successful this year in europe. i bet their budget is less than ours. even if we sell any of our big name players we will not spend alot of money in the offseason..its as simple as that, priorities lie elsewhere, like paying off our debt and being able to pay our players salaries for next year. as much as i dont want it to be true, unless someone steps in and takes control, we will have to make the right signings at the right price. the fact that you say that never works is confusing because thats actually how teams determine transfers, whether they are picking up the right player at the right price.

if you look at the grand scheme of things, saving money on contracts is almost as useful as making money off of sales. our payroll goes down, our spending ability goes up. im not saying 'i want to build a team with free agents' im just saying that that will probably happen as the first priority is not metagrafes at the moment. we have no money, we will not be making any gilberto/cisse type signings, even if we sell.

i dont understand exactly what you want to happen or where you think this offseason is going. as i have said, unless we get our shareholders to put in money or someone to take the team, nothing huge will be happening. money saved and made will not be focused only on reinvesting in transfers.

Copenhagen have had one good season, it's hardly a prototype to follow. How many teams are there that are consistently a good team in Europe and don't spend money? Perhaps you could give me an example of the types of players we should sign. Mattos is certainly a downgrade on Gilberto. Gilberto has dipped this year, hence the reason he needs to go, but Mattos and the Gilberto of last year aren't even comparible.

As for building a team unit that's always important of course, but we need match winners. PAOK are a good team unit. They are solid, combative, dangerous on their day and have a hostile home ground. But they lack match winners and that's why they can do well in cup competitions but they won't win the league. A team that wants to win the league needs match winners. Take out Cisse we have no match winners. Olympiakos aren't necessarily a great unit but Mirallas, Ibagaza, Riera and Torosidis are all capable of changing a match in an instant. Even Zairi does that fairly reqularly. And let's face it, in the grand scheme of things they aren't great either. In European terms they won't make an impact with this current squad next year.

I never said i expect us to sell Ninis and get big signings, i'm explaining what needs to happen for us to be successful. Let's actually consider how much we could make:

Ninis = 6m

Leto = latest rumours are that he's been linked with a 5m move

Gilberto = 1m

Boumsong = 2.5m

Tzorvas = 3m

Govou = 2m

Spyropoulos = 1.5m

Cleyton = 0.5m

Luis Garcia = 0.5m

Plessis = 0.3m

Seitaridis = 0.5m

That's a total of 21.8m and we'd lose 11 players that would need to be replaced (but we'd also lose some big contracts). Now consider this, how much would these guys cost? I'll let you do the valuations.

Sifakis

Douglao

Kyrgiakos

Abdoun

Bringing Gabriel or Ivan back?

Daniel Jansen (Werder - available on a free)

Andreas Avraam (from Omonia, def better than Spyro available at approx 1.5m)

Then bring one big player. What would be wrong with that?

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with the excpetion of selling both ninis and leto we are on the same page. one of them has to go, the other should stay in my opinion..again, if you think we will replace gilberto with someone of his class, keep dreaming. we will not offer someone that kind of money, it wont happen. which is why i am saying, reorganize the midfield. we can build a different type of midfield that can play a more pressure game. our slow and old, not creative midfield was a big problem this year. you dont need gilberto or a gilberto type player to build a solid midfield. we can do it with a player like mattos as long as there is a good plan and the right players around him.

we cannot get money for gilberto as his contract is over in the summer which means we will just be gaining the money we save on his contract. which is alot. same goes for garcia whose contract is a whopping 700,000. we probably wouldnt get that much for boumsong and tzorva unfortunately..tzorva will get sold for max 2 million and no more. probably the same with boumsong. same goes for spyro and probably govou. we might be able to get a buyer closer to those valuations but it will take some serious negotiating. as much as i want ivan back it is now impossible, mainz paid the rest of the claus to us and now fully belongs to them. lets see what gremio offer for gabriel before we talk about bringing him back. they are happy with his performances. apparently byarsmyr is wanted by rosenborg as they are impressed and are probably willing to offer no more than one million.

i would be satisfied by most of the signings you mentioned even though i doubt kyrgiakos will ever play for us again..the problem is we let go of 11 players and then only sign 8-9? we already dont have enough depth. and we need more help in the midfield..

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We need depth in certain positions, but in others we have way too many players that aren't needed. We have 3 rights backs for instance. So selling 11 to sign 8 better players might not be such a bad thing if we were to bring in Mavrias from the golden team too.

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We need depth in certain positions, but in others we have way too many players that aren't needed. We have 3 rights backs for instance. So selling 11 to sign 8 better players might not be such a bad thing if we were to bring in Mavrias from the golden team too.

i agree. same goes with a player like lagos, but we seem uninterested in promoting our youngsters which is a bad attitude to have considering we will have a small spending budget. i dont understand why we dont spend a bigger effort in upgrading our youth system and promoting our young players...
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we will not replace gilberto with someone that will make 1.5 million. that wont happen, we dont have the economic security to do so. we wont do it and we frankly dont have the power to do it. that does not mean we have to downgrade. we can replace him with someone cheaper we just have to create a different plan. we will sign a player who will make 800,000 or a million for his position, thats just the way it is. im not talking about diamonds in the rough, im talking about players that will make a good TEAM together as a unit..there is a big difference. someone like mattos for instance. copenhagen are a good example and they were very successful this year in europe. i bet their budget is less than ours. even if we sell any of our big name players we will not spend alot of money in the offseason..its as simple as that, priorities lie elsewhere, like paying off our debt and being able to pay our players salaries for next year. as much as i dont want it to be true, unless someone steps in and takes control, we will have to make the right signings at the right price. the fact that you say that never works is confusing because thats actually how teams determine transfers, whether they are picking up the right player at the right price.

if you look at the grand scheme of things, saving money on contracts is almost as useful as making money off of sales. our payroll goes down, our spending ability goes up. im not saying 'i want to build a team with free agents' im just saying that that will probably happen as the first priority is not metagrafes at the moment. we have no money, we will not be making any gilberto/cisse type signings, even if we sell.

i dont understand exactly what you want to happen or where you think this offseason is going. as i have said, unless we get our shareholders to put in money or someone to take the team, nothing huge will be happening. money saved and made will not be focused only on reinvesting in transfers.

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Let the coach build the team. He's done it before, and I think he should be trusted to make the choices.

Look, it's been obvious to me that the Greek clubs (and much of Europe) cannot compete with the half a dozen big clubs. Not to mention the lack of credibility for the Greek league. Great players don't want to go there if they can help it.

So, what I'd like to see is that PAO begins to play some good football (yes, I like to see nice games), dominate in the domestic league and play decent matches in Europe.

Unfortunately, this is the future for all small clubs. On top of this, hooliganism is destroying whatever is left. What kind of situation is this when good fans can't watch their team, either at home or even on away matches.?...

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one more shareholder meeting today and still no ANSWERS! no one is willing to step it up and take control, no one seems willing to give any money and if it doesnt happen, i see us selling our stars and replacing them with crap...we may be witnessing the downfall of our club guys...

all i hear is disagreements and maybes..i dont see this heading in a good direction. tzigger wont out in his share, the giannakopoulos brothers dont seem to want anything to do with football, vgeno (the man who got us into this mess) does not show up to the meetings and pateras really doesnt have the money to give..

guys, this doesnt look good. :tdown: :tdown:

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i see us selling our stars and replacing them with crap...we may be witnessing the downfall of our club guys...

i have been saying this for some time now. It was obvious when we didn't invest big at the beginning of this season. It was the last season we could have done that before UEFA's new spending rules come in. We should have spent big and built a good new squad that would last a few years because so many of our players were aging. Once we didn't do that i knew the long term plan was "apathy", which is becoming clearer now.
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Overall you have to say this season was really disappointing as I was expecting so much. The one team that could say have really punched above their weight was Volos. I was expecting so much more from PAOK and Aris especially given the European performances.

The other aspect was looking at the list of scorers and if Liberopoulos is still scoring what has happened to the rest. This is a real concern.

Greek football has to turn to its youth and develop them. We are slipping down the UEFA rankings. We need to look at foreign players in terms of quality rather than quantity.

In my opinion this play off system for CL 2nd place should be scrapped. This adds no value and teams can position themselves to hold back knowing they have asecond chance in playoffs. Also if you are going yo have 3 teams relegated each year you need 18 to 20 teams. Teams like Serres and Ioannina are yo-yo's up and own and OFI needs to be back to create a Cretan derby with Ergotelis.

The egos of various presidents and senior management needs to take a step back and look at the greater picture for Greek football.

One league in Europe that is on the rise again is the German and the great thing is uncertainty. Look at Wolfsburg who were recent champions are almost about to be relegated. I love this league because of the uncertainty. The English EPL while not one of the classic seasons, just look at teams fighting to stay up.

The whole Greek league needs a total overhaul and change its way otherwise we are going backwards further. First thing is increase league to 18-20 and drop these dumb playoffs

For Panathinaikos spend wisely and look toward youth but make some wise choices on experience. Cisse has been good, Boumsong should stay to add experience with Govou. Need to mould a team but too many changes will do nothing

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From what I read in the press, PAO doesn't have money and/or the people involved aren't willing to cover the operating expenses, not to mention a budget to get/keep big salaried players like Cisse. The gap from the richer euro teams will increase.

I agree about scrapping the playoff system and increasing the teams in the league. If the premiership has 20 teams plus so many of their top teams play long euro seasons, there's no reason the Greek teams can't play a longer season.

But serious changes must take place and I don't see it happening.

As for transfers, Cisse has a big contract and PAO needs several players to replace the ones leaving, so I think the sell-off will commence after the playoffs.

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PAO needs to remake its roster.

Too many mediocre foreign players.

Ninis needs to go for the good of the player.

He will never develop in Greece.

Sell the guys that have value. It is interesting that all major teams sell their players to bring in cash and replenish their teams, however in Greece the mentality is the reverse. Look at Olympiakos with Castillo. That was a beauty sell.

GOALIES:

Let Tzorvas go.

Keep the other two goalies and let them ride with it. They are both good.

DEFENSE

Reshape the whole D. That is your biggest problem. Sell, sell, sell...

Keep Vintra, unless you get big time cash for him.

Also keep Spiropoulos, Marinos and Ioannidis.

MIDFIELD

If Silva wants to go you let him go. You give him that respect, nobody else on your team. If he wants to stay you are lucky.

Keep Lazaros, Karagounis, Simao, Plessis, Mavrias.

Everyone else gets sold or released.

FORWARD

Keep both Cisse and Petropulos.

PAO's strength for years has been bringing up youth. Do it again. You have some amazing veterans in place.

So PAO keeps only:

Karnezis, Kotsolis, Vintra, Spiropoulos, Marinos, Ioannidis, Silva, Lazaros, Simao, Karagounis (swan song), Plessis, Mavrias, Cisse and Petropoulos.

Bring in Mellburg like player on D and go forward.

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Tzorvas is better than Karnezis and Plessis is not a player for PAO. But I agree: get rid of that defence! :tdown:

PS. Who in his right mind would spend a whole mess of cash for Vyntra??? :huh:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't think there will be any transfers where we'll have much of a choice. The club has to cut the salary expenses otherwise it'll go bankrupt. I guarantee you that next season the team won't have the players needed.... unless we get lucky and we discover an inexpensive gem somewhere. Matos will come back (and he's good) but the others will be a gamble.

The owners aren't willing to chip in more money so basically the club is betting on making into the CL to make money. If PAO doesn't make the CL, then it'll be catastrophic....

I think who ever might be considering taking over the leadership is waiting to see what these stupid playoffs will produce...

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