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Ferreira seems to re-evaluating everybody.... which is good.

Karnezis is now the starting keeper and Tzorvas wants to leave.

Obviously this team has underperformed for the amount of talent it has, especially compared to previous years.

I'd like to see Matos return.

The question for me is can the coach make this team into a coherent one. We just ended this season's europe venture with a 2-13 goal differential and 2 miserable points.

Domestically, PAO has been bad. I think our main competitor is bad too, because a decent gavroi team of the past or AEK or PAOK, could have won this already. We're lucky but luck carries you only so far if it's a long season.

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Agree with comments - however my big concern is the state of Greek football overall. Where are the Greek players as such, where is the youth coming through???

I hate seeing teams fielding totally non Greek players like Aris did a few times. I also hate watching teams like Chelsea and Internazionale where they also field totally overseas players. The imports are very average with the exceptions of Cisse, Mirallas and a few others.

Surely more emphasis is needed on youth. Look at the scoring charts, where are the Greek players?

I believe Greece needs to increase league to 18 teams.

Scouts to visit Spain and Germany where they havean emphasis on youth. Look at the Spanish, Netherlands and German national teams. Look at Barcelona and a team that has surprised Borussia Dortmund. Thus has not happened by accident buth through investment.

Panathinaikos has a great set up but like Greek football in general afraid to blend youth with experience. If things do not change then Greek football will become a league similar to Scotland and worse. Since 2004 things have gone backward when Greece put their names into history. Now they are part of history not marking their mark in history

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Good points.

It seems to me that already there 3-4 tiers in football. The elite clubs who have all the money and buy the best players. The middle teams who occasionally do well, and the rest. And the gap is getting wider.

Success brings more fans, viewers, sponsors, and good players who want to shine. This increases the dominance momentum.

Since players have no true loyalty to teams other than to their salaries & bonuses, the team becomes a brand, like Coca Cola. Fans increasingly will identify with a successful team because of the success, less with players, since most players, increasingly, move from team to team every few years.

Not to turn this into an economics debate, unregulated capitalism leads to big monopolies or oligopolies. In American sports leagues there are measures in place to prevent this. Like cap on spending, talent draft, revenue sharing, etc. They are much, much more competitive.

It would make sense for lesser/poorer teams to put lots of emphasis in developing own talent.

Greek football in in deep crisis. All teams are losing money. There are only a handful of super rich people who are willing to pump money into them, but this can't be sustained as the gap with the top euro teams is getting bigger. As the gap between the top Greek teams and the rest is not shrinking either. Larissa, Kavala, Egotelis, etc, will never be able to truly compete for the title in Greece.

Plus, I don't think Greece has the economic base to maintain tens of strong, financially healthy teams.

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there is something to be said about the management of the clubs though..there is a lack of forward thinking...owners of the mid and low level greek superleague clubs are not thinking in the long run..instead of building the team from the youth, they take the more expensive and short term view of filling the team with mid-level foreigners or scouting the central european leagues for cheap buys..they cycle through these players left and right instead of building a core of greek players brought through the ranks...

this may mean the management might have to endure acouple seasons of failure but only because they have gone this long without trying to build the club from the bottom up. thats why we are seeing more clubs fall from the superleague into the 3rd and 4th division within a matter of years...the management is pouring money into a team that will never be successful because the money is invested into the wrong areas..

alot of clubs have gotten to the point where taking a better approach may mean failing miserably so they dont bother trying. then they fall a division, release their players and have to start from scratch, risking further failure in the second division..

there needs to be long term plans and goals set within all facets of the club...most owners and management of the mid-low level clubs are only thinking about this year and perhaps the next...

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I agree with both your comments - something in football has to change. The big clubs are getting too big like Chelsea, Man U, Barcelona and Real. Other clubs are not able to compete.

If you look at the Greek League, it would be one of the closest leagues around if you take away Pana and Oly. I have to say the others are pretty well matched with everyone having a chance. This is how football should where the result is in doubt.

I like the German league as well as everyone has a chance. Look at 2 teams like Dortmund and say Stuttgart or Schalke. Who would have thought Dortmund would be there.

I believe European football needs an overall and to stop these massive fees or salares being paid. For instance even if I had the money, there is no way I would pay $500,000 a week for Carlos Tevez. Even Man U would not pay that money. No player is worth that much and look at their performances. Salary caps neeed to be introduced.

I must say I live downuder but the A-League has it right. The teams are so evenly matched that each week it is exciting.

Don't get me wrong as I think Barcelona are a class team and are playing the best football is termss of watching and goals scored.

But there is an eliteness among the top few teams where soon they will be untouchable.

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it doesnt matter now...vgenopoulo is withdrawing from pao, pateras has stepped down as president...next cisse will leave and we will officially be a sinking ship....

we started the season off completely wrong and this is the result of that....

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I agree with both your comments - something in football has to change. The big clubs are getting too big like Chelsea, Man U, Barcelona and Real. Other clubs are not able to compete.

If you look at the Greek League, it would be one of the closest leagues around if you take away Pana and Oly. I have to say the others are pretty well matched with everyone having a chance. This is how football should where the result is in doubt.

I like the German league as well as everyone has a chance. Look at 2 teams like Dortmund and say Stuttgart or Schalke. Who would have thought Dortmund would be there.

I believe European football needs an overall and to stop these massive fees or salares being paid. For instance even if I had the money, there is no way I would pay $500,000 a week for Carlos Tevez. Even Man U would not pay that money. No player is worth that much and look at their performances. Salary caps neeed to be introduced.

I must say I live downuder but the A-League has it right. The teams are so evenly matched that each week it is exciting.

Don't get me wrong as I think Barcelona are a class team and are playing the best football is termss of watching and goals scored.

But there is an eliteness among the top few teams where soon they will be untouchable.

the german league has ownership rules where 51% of the clubs must be publically owned (private non profit), they also require youth programs and have a ton of standards for clubs to compete. Bundesliga is the best overall league in the world. At the rate its going, I fully expect it to surpass the EPL by 2020.

Salary caps are a horrible, horrible idea. You prevent teams from being competitive. If the most PAO can pay for a player is "X", and the most say Everton can pay for a player is "X", then theres reduced incentive/reason for top players to come out to Europe. Salary caps are preventing the A League from being anything more than a pile of garbage it is, as your teams have no ability to gain competitive advantage, to attract players/retain talents, with competing European leagues which offer not only possiblity of money, but also competition.

If Superleague alone had a salary caps for within Greece, the Greek league would drop far behind in talent because they'll never be able to bring in top talent, or retain it.

The reason Greece is so unbalanced between 2 clubs is because 50% of the country lives in Athens, and theres 2 big teams, they dominate the fanbase and therefore the opportunity for growth.

We don't need salary caps, we need to take private ownership OUT, and make sure smaller clubs are fully reinvesting in their teams.

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Drakos - agree with comments and I can see disadvantages with salary caps as well however don't forget the A-League is fairly young and does not have the power or the ability to attract top class talent compared to European leagues. In your eyes it maybe garbage but at the moment most European standards are not growing either. I am not sure if prevent competitiveness but really would you pay $500K a week for Carlos Tevez.

But what I do like is that is competitive and the league that I like watching is the Bundesliga because it is unpredictable and each team has a realistic chance of competing.

Spain also is seriously now between 2 teams each year. Arguably they may be the best 2 teams around and may provide incentive for the odd upset here and there but end of the day it is only Barca and Real. The gap is getting to wide.

Italian football has also gone backwards big time even though Inter won the CL, however the whole team was overseas players. Where are the youth of Italy.

So how do we change ownership status to make it fair. From what I can see there is an elite league of teams starting to form and has been forming. What next for teams like Chelsea, Barcelona etc. Will they become bored as they will just play each other.

Another issue is these play-offs for the 2nd champions league spot? I still do not see any benefit in playing these matches.

Something has to change and needs to happen across the whole of Europe. I can see the day when the likes of elite clubs break away and form there own "greed is good league".

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  • 2 weeks later...

apparently we are close to signing 24 yr old slovak intl erik jendrisek. he is a forward playing for schalke...he hasnt been able to break into their side (huntelaar, farfan and raul are ahead of him) i remember him playing alittle for kaiserslautern and at the world cup but dont know much about him...

who knows what will happen, they said the same thing about schaars...that he was close to signing and blah blah...i hate following these transfer talks...

i dont think we have money so i dont think we will get anyone good...

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Hi everyone. How are you all? Did everyone have a good Christmas? I've been away for a while so haven't posted at all in ages.

I heard Tzorva wants to leave? Is that true? Are there any suitors? I heard Cisse has attracted the interest of Liverpool too and he was photographed having lunch with Gerrard.

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cisse wont leave mid season...im sure they went to lunch because they are probably friends...its the english, who are almost as bad as the greeks with their transfer rumours...

i doubt tzorvas will leave in the winter either...fernandez probably will though...i have a feeling simao may be sold and possibly gilberto since his contract runs up in the summer and we are in desperate need of money...we will have to sell or cut players in order to free up room to make transfers...

one rumor that i heard about that i would really like is fabian rinauldo of gimnasia la plata..i have seen him play and he is a great center midfielder..a beast in tackling but also very good technically..he had been linked with some big clubs like valencia recently...seems too good to be true, so it probably is...

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First, happy and healthy new year to all. :tup:

Actually I wouldn't be upset if half a dozen players left or sold. Except Simao. He should stay for many years.

Cisse will leave if PAO doesn't make it into the CL.

The worst thing is the climate within the whole organization, with people leaving, making accusations, no clear course, etc.

Being 5 points down will make it even harder to maintain composure and put together a long string of good games to make up the difference. I'm afraid that another bad result will come soon, and at that point everyone will give up.... surrendering another title to gavroi.

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cisse wont leave mid season...im sure they went to lunch because they are probably friends...its the english, who are almost as bad as the greeks with their transfer rumours...

http://www.novasports.gr/news.aspx?a_id=66...0&Period=196737

fuel has been added to the fire with Cisse telling a British newspaper that he wants to return to Liverpool. Things aren't looking good for PAO. With all the in-fighting among the board and with Cisse sending out a "come get me" plea to Liverpool we could be in a lot of trouble

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I doubt Cisse will leave now, but PAO is entertaining offers from Dynamo about Simao! Simao may leave because he doesn't believe Ferreira counts on him to be a starter.

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