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I've had enough of the Garcia hype.

Horrible passes, bad decisions. He had one chance, but otherwise the guy was simply RUBBISH.

Our top player is CISSE ------ always is, always was. The guy pulls goals out of his ass to save this team. We are so F***ign lucky to have him, its unbeleivable. The guy even tattoed himself with dedication to our club. To have a player dedicated, motivated, skilled and reliable like him is a dream for us fans. Hes our best hope of a prota8lhma this year.

We deserved to lose today. Kavala was better, and if it werent for Cisse getting in on that cross, we would have lost. Kavala should have buried the game, and we didn't create anything till the last 15 mins, and that wasnt much.

When you think about it....... a backline of Vyntra, Marinos, Kante and Boumsong would conceed 5 goals + another 5-6 excellent scoring opportunities in Camp Nou ----- is it suprising?

Tzorvas 7 -- some good saves, some iffy moments. Him and Cisse earned us the point.

Kante 5.5 --- better 2nd half. Horrible 1st half

Boumsong 5 ---- nothing

Vyntra 4 ------ as soon as he got back on the right side, was utter s%$#!. Were supposed to be chasing goals, and he's hanging back with acres of space on the right side on numerous occasions. His job is to MOVE IN THERE ASAP when he sees the opening. Couldnt do that, could barely defend, and aside from one good delivery he had the rest horrible passes

Marinos 4 ---- disaster

Gilberto 6 ---- some good, some bad moments

Karagkounis 6 --- did his job, didn't give away posessions left and right (can't say that about superstar Floris Garcia), won some fouls, and some tackles.

Ninis 6.5 --- he worked hard, but couldn't turn it around for us 2nd half. Set up a goal

Govou 6---- not much from the guy, was stupid to take off a guy that fast with finishing skills out of the team, especially coming off as PAO's top player in a poor game this week ----- when we needed TWO goals to come out with the win.

Leto 5.5 --- dissapointing . He did assist the second goal, but was really awful first half, losing possesions, not looking up or playing intelligently.

Cisse 8 ---- superstar. God. All the guy needs is a scrap of a chance to pull the goal, and a better striker than him PAO or any Greek team will likely not be getting even close to at any time in the near future.

Luis Garcia 5 ---- man of the match --- just kidding. Rubbish on the set peices, a LOT of poor passes, some bad decisions, and mostly useless shooting. PAO continued to play nothing on the buildup thanks to his efforts.

Ioannidis 6 --- looked a lot better than Marinos, we should give him more time. Had some weak moments but mostly looked fine.

Katsouranis 6 ---- did his job

Nioplias 4 ---- 60 mins to score 2 goals, and we take off Govou...Give me a break! The team didn't start playing football until we started to risk by taking Boumsong out for Katsouranis. Thats fine - but you have to do that earlier. Another 15 mins of pressing and numbers forward we would have better chances to win that game. Instead, we waited, rather than try to seize advantage of the time left in the game. This ALWAYS happens, and we almost ALWAYS never get the amount of goals we need. We can worry about playing defense when we are winning 3-2. But unless you get the 2 goals its pointless. The sooner we start to press forward, make chances and threaten them and develop a rythm, the better the odds are of getting the goals we need to win.

Another thing that pissed me off was diving. What are we Olympiakos all of a sudden??? Ninis fished for a penalty and complained like an idiot.......

Leto had the ball, flicks it on the edge then went for the PK-foul instead of continuing in the area for a legit chance (yes, that was an OBVIOUS, OBVIOUS dive)......Kara had some at the end...Vyntra dove against Aris......what is this s%$#!?!? A harmless fall in the midfield ok like Karagkounis does is one thing whatever....But when were in the area, we should be PLAYING and threatening not looking for setpeices and PK's

Same crap for yet another season. Were lucky to have a point I guess, but now we've got to wait for OSFP to screw it up. Horrible start to the season, call me a pessimist whatever, but a team like this will have a LOT of difficulting beating FC Copenhagen and Kazan unless they switch into "Euro mode", personally I can see us not going through in the CL as very realistic this season.

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yeah, so far PAO hasn't shown any improvement from last year despite getting several expensive players. It's early but we should have had 4 points and first place and let the others chase us.

But, with appearances like these, we'll have a tough season ahead. Maybe the Europa league is a better venue for this team. :(

Gavroi and all the others will lose points here and there too.

What's Kavala's budget anyway? I think for the money PAO (and others spend) in comparison to the smaller teams in Greece, there should be no contest. I mean I like to see good competitive games, but PAO's performance so far has been horrible--it's not that the other teams are so much better (Barca excluded).

If they put on a "euro face" and play better against Kazan and Kopenhagen I would yell at the players if I were the Prez. It means they can but don't want to play better against lesser teams.

Do you think they became too arrogant now?

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To be fair - Kavala are a strong team. I thought personally, they deserved the win.

Sure our performances are bad, but (i will get criticized for this heavily) there is also the factor that our league is actually improving in standard. Kavala took out big teams last year, they've been a tough side to crack. Even Aris beat Atletico Madrid, then lost in Panionios.....PAOK couldnt beat Volos, OSFP lost to Iraklis.... maybe these "gkeles" are becoming more frequent because the opponents are also a lot tougher?

Kavala is definitley a respectable team. Apparently Bundesliga scouts were watching Douglao - we should have definitley signed him this summer, and strengthened the back line. A lot better player than Sariegui, Bjarsmyr and an improvement over Kante. Instead we wasted time/money on signing Plessis.

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To be honest I stand by what I said last year, PAO were overrated. We won the league for the same reason Valverde won it the last time he was in charge of Olympiakos. Because every other team was poor. We failed to beat every decent team we played last season, except for Roma and let's face it, even a broken clock is right twice a day!

The fact is, we're a one man team... actually i take that back, a two man team with Gilberto (even though he's about 87 years old). Even in the ridiculously poor league last year, we'd have probably finished second without Cisse.

We need to buy another striker, a right back, 2 centre backs and an attacking midfielder. We need a new fitness coach and most importantly, a new philosophy, which means Seitaridis and Katsouranis have to be shown the door! Until we do that we'll be a mediocre team with a very good striker that bails us out in the league. In Europe we'll be exposed again

Drakos, Kavala are not a strong team this year. They've lost alot of important players since last year

Edited by Euro2004
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our league is actually improving in standard


PAO were overrated

More proof that what this board lacks in numbers makes up with quality. :tup:

I completely agree with both of you guys. The league is improving for sure. The way modern tactics have evolved (especially with the emphasis on athleticism, with the zone defense, and no man-coverage in midfield) it's not easy for teams to dominate constantly at our level.

That PAO is overrated is certain. Last year PAOK and Olympiakos had perfect chances to put distance between us and them, but they lost key games. Besides Roma and Aris in the cup final, we have yet to win a game with teams above mid-table.

But how to bring these facts up without invoking the "traitor, Nioblias is the best thing since sliced bread".

I think it's atrocious to be winning once every three games when our opponents are Kavala, Xanthi, and Aris. And you know what's even more maddening? We scored first in every single game (even in Camp Nou) which shows horrible game management.

If we want this championship we must find ways to win these games one way or another.

Edited by cyberfish
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i think still think its too early to be judging us or any other team in the league...the season has just begun, all teams in all leagues are just starting to find their feet...look at all the surpirses in italy and spain and afew in the premiership...everyone needs to try and be a little bit patient...as i said before, after october, we will really know where our team stands...that month (surrounding the month) we have to play copenhagen (29/9) rubin twice (20/10 and 2/11) aek, paok and olympiakos...after those games, i think we will all be in a safe place to judge the team properly, what physical condition we are in and how our game looks...after that, we have a pretty "smooth" ride in the league into the winter

i think the problems are that the players arent working hard enough, maybe they cant because of our bad conditioning, but they dont show they want to win yet...we have come into this year slightly cocky, and its time everyone lays the BS down and gets serious and gets to work...our hard work last year is what got us past all the smaller teams, that is the only way any top greek club will beat those teams, by working hard for 90 minutes....we saw it against xanthi and kavala, we looked bright for periods of the match, then all of a sudden stopped trying and fell asleep for long spells...the team needs to stay focused, we have the talent, we have the players and a bright coach, we need to stay focused, unified and work HARD..i still believe we have one of the best rosters in all long time and a better roster than any other greek team, we just need to get serious...

and by the way, i predict, and everyone take note of this now, that these "smaller" clubs will pry more points out of the top teams this year, then any other year...not only are their levels increasing (which they definitly are) but they tactically know and have learned how to play against us and how and where to hit us...

what im trying to say is everyone needs to be alittle patient..trust me, i was fuming after kavala, but the team needs a bit of time to find their feet...just like goalscoring, once the team starts winning, and we build momentum, i think we will play well and win points....

this is a problem in greece, three matchdays in, the performances arent good and everyone begins pointing the finger, everyone starts to become a critic and starts with the negativeity...we need to settle down, have faith and be positive...if after october we still arent performing accordingly, then i will be rightfully pissed...we have a long long road ahead of us, the championship will be close this yea, everyone needs to stay patient..

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:tup: I agree with you Cyber.

Having grown up in the UK i tend to use the English league as a measuring stick. Personally I feel that Our top 5 teams could all play in the Premiership. PAO and Olympiakos would be around the Europa League (like Aston Villa), spot position, PAOK lower mid-table (like Blackburn) and AEK and Aris would be struggling to stay up (like West Ham or Bolton). After those 5 the rest of the league is Championship level (England's second division). Nathan Ellington for instance was asked on Skysports in an interview what he thought of his club Xanthi. He was asked about life in Greece, what sort of level he thought the teams were at, etc. He said Xanthi were like a "decent Championship team". Decent obviously means they aren't strong but aren't bad enough to go down either. In the Superleague they barely survived, so I think my rating of the teams in Greece might be pretty accurate.

A decade ago PAOK completely out-played and knocked out an Arsenal team that won the double. PAO were always competitive against the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal too. We made the last 8 of the CL and were unlucky to go against Barca at that time. The following season we went out to Mourinho's Porto in the semi final of the UEFA Cup. Again we were unlucky to ose and went out to the eventual winners. The year Man Utd won the treble, Olympiakos were unlucky to go out to Juve, who in turn only lost to eventual winners Man Utd in the semi.

So what's the point of all this? Relatively speaking our big teams are getting worse! At one point we were good enough to have 3 teams in CL. That's the same as the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 now! I do agree that the smaller teams are getting stronger, but the bigger teams are getting worse and that's why the smaller teams are capable of prying points away from us.

Having said I doubt Kavala will do as well this year as they did last year because they've lost so many players but let's say Kavala about the same level as Leicester or Swansea. In a one off cup game they are capable of beating a team like Aston Villa or Everton, but if they were in the same league over the course of the season Villa/Everton would be winning if they HAD TO because they were chasing the league title. The question is, why are we failing to win consistently?

Is it fitness?

Lack of talent?

Poor tactics?


It's probably all of those and Cyber points to some key issues about poor management. The problem is that we cannot afford to wait until November to rectify the problem because we could be out of Europe and struggling in the league by then.

Edited by Euro2004
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