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Greece v. Argentina


athinaios

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Time to start this topic and write here our thoughts of this important game.

Anyways, I don't know whether Otto will be smart about this... I think he'll try to get 1 point hopping that Nigeria beats Korea.

I'd like to see Ninis start with Salpi and basically players in their natural positions.

Argentina is a great team but, you know, I think if GR were like Serbia, Slovenia or even Swiss I'd be more confident.

And, please, criticism isn't meant to be negative just for the hell of it but it's meant to identify the problems. Most of us care and are saddened by the missed opportunity to take care a mediocre team like S. Korea.

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Time for the omnipotent gut check. Very few of us, if any, would be critical of the NT players if they were to give it their 100% for 90-95 minutes, at every game. More than anything else I question their work ethic and their mental attitude. If they were to tweak these two aspects great things can be achieved. Believe in thy self, work hard, and your dreams have a much better chance of becoming reality. Those of us that live abroad understand this well because the systems we live and prosper in reward such attributes. Greece on the other hand rewards corruption and connections to get ahead. Such attitudes can't help but trickle down into the individual psyche and to most aspects of society, to include of course sports and our NTs. That's why we don't do well at the international stage.

The proud never lay down, no matter what the challenge. They simply give it their best and good things happen. To thimomaste arage to "molon lave" h "tha to palepsoume" twn progonwn mas......alla oxi mono logia!

Argentina can be had, or any other team for that matter :gr:

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Argentina will rest players who have card trouble and who are injured. Nigeria will play desperate against South Korea in order to achieve their first win.

Switzerland beat Spain. Serbia beat Gemany. Algeria tied England.

Greece MUST believe they can pass.

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(from FIFA.com)

As it stands:

1. Argentina: 6 pts; GD +4; five goals scored.

2. Greece: 3 pts; GD -1; two goals scored.

3. Korea Republic: 3 pts; GD -1; three goals scored.

4. Nigeria: 0 pts; GD -2; one goal scored.

Qualifying criteria:

a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;

bb) goal difference in all group matches;

c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows:

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;

e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;

f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;

g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

If Greece wins:

- and Korea Republic beat Nigeria, first and second places will go to the sides with the best goal difference out of Argentina, Korea Republic and Greece.

- and Korea Republic fail to beat Nigeria, then Argentina and Greece go through with goal difference deciding who finishes top.

If Greece ties:

-and Nigeria beat Korea Republic, Argentina finish top and Greece second. (their best chance at passing, I think)

- and Korea Republic beat Nigeria, Argentina finish top and Korea Republic second.

If Greece loses:

- and Korea Republic beat or draw with Nigeria, Argentina finish top and Korea Republic second.

- and Korea Republic lose to Nigeria, Argentina finish top with second place going to the side with the best goal difference out of Greece, Korea Republic or Nigeria.

If both matches end in draws

- Argentina finish top with second place going to either Greece or Korea Republic (as both Greece and Korea Republic will have the same goal difference, second place will go to the side scoring the greater number of goals in all group matches).

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gcp,

Time for the omnipotent gut check. Very few of us, if any, would be critical of the NT players if they were to give it their 100% for 90-95 minutes, at every game. More than anything else I question their work ethic and their mental attitude. If they were to tweak these two aspects great things can be achieved. Believe in thy self, work hard, and your dreams have a much better chance of becoming reality. Those of us that live abroad understand this well because the systems we live and prosper in reward such attributes. Greece on the other hand rewards corruption and connections to get ahead. Such attitudes can't help but trickle down into the individual psyche and to most aspects of society, to include of course sports and our NTs. That's why we don't do well at the international stage"

this is one of the most insightful and deeply penetrating comments i have encountered on this thread....excellent....i allude to this often, and its nice to see another sensibility idnetifying the deeper issues.....excellent GCP.....

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I don't know for the rest of u guys supporting Greece but I would be extremely pissed if Greece don't make it through because of the number of goals scored. Since they should of taken advantage of the game with Nigeria and try to score as many goals as possible or even one more since they were a man up for the most part of the game.

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I don't know for the rest of u guys supporting Greece but I would be extremely pissed if Greece don't make it through because of the number of goals scored. Since they should of taken advantage of the game with Nigeria and try to score as many goals as possible or even one more since they were a man up for the most part of the game.

I mentioned this during the game in that match thread. I didnt get any support for that thought at the time. If we'd put in another goal during the nigeria game we'd be in the driver seat to get through to the next round. Now the pressure is on us to score a goal or two against argentina and Korea can sit back and control the results a bit. Tricky situation!
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If Greece ties with Korea on points, Korea DESERVES to go through. They beat us. So I don't really care about number of goals scored. The FIFA rule is stupid.

Goal difference as a tie breaker is one thing, but head to head should definitly go before total goals scored - thats ridiculous.

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I mentioned this during the game in that match thread. I didnt get any support for that thought at the time. If we'd put in another goal during the nigeria game we'd be in the driver seat to get through to the next round. Now the pressure is on us to score a goal or two against argentina and Korea can sit back and control the results a bit. Tricky situation!

Guys from what I remember the Nigerian Keeper stopped Gekas point blank,Samaras on the header,Samaras got cleared on a bangbang .....How could we be angry about not SCORING enough??? If we don t qualify it rests on Otto's plate he had 2 months to prepare his team for game 1...that will be the pisser if we dont pass.

Back to topic this tournament has shown that surprises are out there. If Otto can tweak his lineup and especially his formation/tactic. Leaving Soto by his lonsome on the left....the Argentines will carve him up. For those who tell you we have no chance remond them...YES remind them of 04 and this group went to Ukraine in the dead of winter...BELIEVE!

......................Tzorvas............................

Toro.............Avraam..............Soto..........Spyropoulos

...............................Socrates...................................

.....................Tziolis......................Katsouranis..........

................................Karagounis...............................

...................Salpi................................Samaras

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Greece coach Otto Rehhagel has admitted that his team's chances of beating Argentina in their final Group B match are slim.

The Greeks have to better Korea Republic's result against the Nigeria on Tuesday to progress. That will be no easy task against the South Americans, who have won both their matches, even if coach Diego Maradona intends to rotate his squad.

"Argentina are a top-class team, far superior to Greece," said the 71-year-old. "They will clearly be better than us and we have got to see how to cope with them. We all know the Argentine team is of extraordinary quality but we are happy to have a chance to qualify."

Source.

"They will clearly be better than us" ... :tdown: True or not you keep that to yourself as a coach and make your players believe ! ! !

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rarely have i heard otto praise his team.......rarely.........on the one hand you need your coach to be realistic, but on the other you cant come out and say stuff like that...

better to say something like " on any given day anyone can beat anyone....arg are a class team but when we play our game properly so are we.....so its up to the players to show they belong in this tournament.....you measure yourself against your opponent, and if the players want the respect they feel they deserve, its right in front of them.....its just a matter of how badly they want it"

my old basketball coach would tell us stuff like this all the time....and it would be nice ot hear that nazi bastid say something encouraging for a change...enought with the austere, authority figure crap...

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"They will clearly be better than us" ... :tdown: True or not you keep that to yourself as a coach and make your players believe ! ! !

It is fine for him to say that, BUT he must follow it up with "If we play our game we can upset them just like other nations have upset powerhouse nations......
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No it's not fine for the German to praise everyone but his team. Leonidas didn't praise the Persian numerical superiority, to contrary he knew he didn't have a chance and yet the molon lave sufficed for the ages. But what can one expect from the King who while his team was losing to Sweden instead of him guiding his own, as a coach that makes 1mill a year ought to do, he was busy high-fiving the Swede fans. What is wrong with us Greeks, accepting the unacceptable and viewing it as the norm?

Has anyone been monitoring the brutal criticism against the English NT by their own fans? You don't see them crybaby likes ours do because oi oures tous einai vregmenes, to kseroun kai to voulonoun. Bradley, the USA coach, didn't file a complaint with FIFA for his team being robbed from a winning goal, would we Greeks do the same? Hell no, we'd be wining from here to eternity. Simple lessons in behavior that seem to always elude us.

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look everybody and their grandma has a theory about "why" the NT produces the results it does.

it could be as simple as "we just ain't that good"..........if thats the case then 2004 was a miracle, beating a lackluster 10 man nigerian side was a tremendous accomplishment, and anytime we beat any team other than san marino, we should all "party like its 1999.

but if we maintain that posture and dont adjust expectations, both form a fan persepctive and the team/its handlers and coaches, then we will never get the respect in the international footballing community... and thats ok - so long as you dont want it both ways..

becuase alternatively, if u deem the team to be a good team, then small yet important acomplishments should be taken in stride as stepping stones to build a strong team year after year...the press influences this, the fans with their turnout, and the team - most importantly with their EFFORT........not necessarily winning every game but leaving it all the field every time....if they did that i think we would get the same if not better results, the press would be friendlyier, the players would feel more appreciated and we as fans would be happy with the teams effort....

but as GCP and others have said, the conditions surrounding he team are not conducive to this type of development.....rather its almost the opposite.....greeks have always had a "hit and run" mentality......and its this mindset that permeates and influences almost everything that goes on - economically, socially, and everything else......

NT teams do in fact take on the character of their nations popolous.....and with us its no different........capable of brilliant things, but woefully inconsistent and erratic.....

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manga, file mou, "leave it into the field and hit & run" sums it all up! If we were to ever meet our conversations would be much too boring as we think too much alike :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: . Thank you for the kind words btw!

New Zealand's putting up a fight and I'm proud of them for doing so. The talent's not there but the guts and effort abound.

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I am somewhat confused, did I blink & Messi became our NT's coach while Rehagel skipped to Argentina?

Thank you for the reality check Messi, good on you! And no it does not escape me that the more you praise your opponent the sweeter the victory.

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boring???? jajaja...

there are many levels that you can think about this.....the simplest of which is we are not that good....if we were, then we win more games...period.....

now, why we are not that good, well thats gets us into the "grey" area and all the theories startflying....all are interesting, all have valid points....but, in the end, it simple..

win and your a good team ...lose and you arent.....its quantifiable....and all the other kafenio subject matter is all qualatative......

lets see what team shows up on tuesday...

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New Zealand's putting up a fight and I'm proud of them for doing so. The talent's not there but the guts and effort abound

gcp - two of the most impressionable statements for me, and ones that i always hold close :

1. getting the MOST out of your talent is in itself a talent......

2. "I am not smarter than anyone else, I just stick with problems alot longer than most people" - Albert Einstein

on game day it does not matter who is faster and who can dribble and who cant and whose has what reputation.....skill level does matter obviously, but what matters is who wants it, and who is willing to do more than the other guy to get it......GUTS and EFFORT...and if you fall short u can still hold your head high and everyone else will respect you for it....

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thrylo this is precisely why we all blow a gasket when otto kills our chances with his unyielding "play not to lose" system.....

no fukcing reason why we play like that vs. SK.....i think if nigeria plays their game they can beat them easily...

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thrylo this is precisely why we all blow a gasket when otto kills our chances with his unyielding "play not to lose" system.....

no fukcing reason why we play like that vs. SK.....i think if nigeria plays their game they can beat them easily...

i'm still interested to find out why papastathopoulos and kyrgiakos were truly left off.

THAT IS THE REASON WE LOST TO S.KOREA

And no, it was not Avraam's fault

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Thryle, maybe one day we'll be officially told the obvious, i.e. that Otto is a dictator that clings to "my way or the highway" principle no matter what the cost?

Well, our household is now officially ready for the Brazil game (my wife being the influence here). Brazilian food, drinks, attire, and spirit ought to make this an interesting 90+ minutes. Lets hope they bring on their "jogo bonito" and the samba girls cause they are both a pleasure to watch :tup:

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