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dark_horse

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you gotta love the guy (haristea) but his time is done as a started and focal point....just the way i see it

True. No one will forget his 2004 gift to all of us. But true, his time as a starter may well be over.

The way I see it, but you guys obviously know way more than I do when it comes to the tactical schemes and elevens, we lose too much speed up front with Charisteas in the eleven.

Salpingidis, Samaras and Gekas are all relatively fast compared to Charisteas for sure, when he plays things get slowed down and as you said mangas, he's not creative enough ...

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Why do you bother posting when you've obviously got no idea. How many games have you watched Giourkas actually play since 04? Sit down.

FYI - Giourkas is out injured, major blow.

I've seen him play many times since 04, and unless you're popping pills, its obvious he doesn't play anything like he use to. You might want to watch some of his games w/ someone who understands the sport, then go sit on your thumb and think about it.
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Since 04 - compared to Avraam, Moras, Kyrgiakos, Antzas, Vyntra, Goumas - Giourkas has been God like!

Happy to watch any game you recommend that proves me wrong. Just watch the last two qualifiers - he was playing without a club and was one of our best.

That's ridiculous. Kyrgiakos was an absolute rock in the qualifiers of Euro 2004, not to mention the top scorer! Antzas I thought was crap, but his performance in Turkey was top class. Seitaridis' last good game for Greece was at home to Norway in the qualifiers for Euro 2008.
What are you smoking?

Kyrgiakos leading scorer for the Euro 2004 Qualifiers?? He has scored three goals in his entire career two against Norway and one against the Turks from memory - nothing to write home about and they were all in the 2008 qualifiers. Please do not mention Kyrgiakos and 04 - they just don't go together.

What don't you talk about the amount of goals we've concede due to his f*ck ups!!?

Antzas is s%$#!!!! What, one good performance?? Please. Rubbish.

According the Greek press Otto has hinted that the backline will be;

Vyntra (Rubbish), Kyrgiakos (Rubbish),

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Haristea is ok when used properly. He's big and aerially capable. Down the middle in a 3-5-2 with Gekas and he'd be fine. Samaras is clearly a very good impact player but isn't effective for 90 mins so he should be the sub, not Haristeas.

I agree he's okay when used properly but definitely not with Gekas up front; either one or the other since they both play the same position and can't play anywhere else. Haristeas is only effective when he stays down the middle and we have a system that feeds him the ball - thats when he's dangerous. But thats absolutely IT; if he's used in a 3 pronged attack w/ Gekas and Samaras or Salpi, you can kiss the WC goodbye. If we're up 2 or 3 -0 in the 80th and he wants to take out Gekas and put in Hari, thats fine. Anyhow he's already been used in this 4-3-3 nonsense and it was a disaster.

I also don't think starting Salpi up front with Gekas and Samaras is a good idea at all since he lacks control and creativity: the qualities that make Ninis a good player. So Vyntra and Hari make me a bit nervous and unsure about Saturday but the good news is Ninis, Mitroglou, and Pliatsikas. IF, if if IF we use a line up formation like we had in the last 2 games WE WILL ADVANCE.

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Why do you bother posting when you've obviously got no idea. How many games have you watched Giourkas actually play since 04? Sit down.

FYI - Giourkas is out injured, major blow.

I've seen him play many times since 04, and unless you're popping pills, its obvious he doesn't play anything like he use to. You might want to watch some of his games w/ someone who understands the sport, then go sit on your thumb and think about it.
So the team looked better when we lost to Switzerland and drew with Moldova in September then it did in October against Latvia.

Please tell me Giourkas was not one of our better players last month.

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According to the reuters

Greece (probable): Kostas Chalkias, Loukas Vintra, Sotiris Kyrgiakos, Evangelos Moras, Nikos Spiropoulos; Giorgos Karagounis, Kostas Katsouranis, Alexandros Tziolis; Giorgos Samaras, Theofanis Gekas, Angelos Charisteas

Ukraine (probable): Andriy Pyatov, Vasyl Kobin, Yaroslav Rakytsky, Oleksander Kucher, Olexiy Gay, Sergiy Nazarenko, Ruslan Rotan, Anatoliy Tymoschuk, Evgeniy Hacherydy, Artem Milevskiy, Andriy Shevchenko

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if that is the lineup then otto is definately resorting to teh same tight, play for tie, play not lose mentality that will definately NOT payoff....i dont understand what more he needs to see....the element of surprise was as much of a factor in 04 as was anything else....otto is basically showing ukraine the same greek team tehy have already beaten and which they know well.....

bench haristea, go full out on the offense with g,s,s, up front push the mids up deniro, k, ninis and tell teh defense they better their heads out of their asses because they aint gettin any help form the mids.....show ukriane a look and style THEY HAVE NOT SEEN, that thye dont expect and which they will ahev to figure out in the momment.....your palying at home, shock and awe, right off the bat and force ukriane to adjust to the new tactics..........you can always resort to "loser, donkey ball" later.....

Edited by mangas21
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sorry euro...i normally agree with most of yur pints, but with this one i have to 100% unequivocally disagree.....

haristea has two left feet....he cant dribble at all, cant create anythign on his own, cant pass - aerially sure, but if they dont feed him a perfect header HE IS RELATIVELY USELESS....and when you put him in you are committed to a whole different offensive scheme - good ole donkey ball - which we cant play as well as we did in 04 and we saw what the results were after that with him in there.....

samara creates, and with a three pronged attack (him, gekas, salpi) you get much more movement off the ball since and that can put more pressure on the other teams defense.....

you gotta love the guy (haristea) but his time is done as a started and focal point....just the way i see it

Mate you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying I rate Haristeas as being a better player than Samaras but each player has certain characteristics and a team needs to have a good balance. If I have 11 Rivaldos the team won't work.

I think we would all argee that Gekas is a guaranteed starter. So who plays with him depends on the system. In fairness to Haristeas he has been used mainly as a right-forward, that's not fair because it's not his natural position. If he played up front with Gekas though in a 3-5-2 he might be weapon with his aerial ability. Let's not forget that during Euro 2004 he was def our best forward, in 2008 he also played well. Against Swtizerland in Greece he had a good game and he played in the centre.

Samaras has been very good in some games and anonymous in the others this season. What do the games in which has played well in have in common?

Turkey away,

Israel home and away,

Switzerland away,

and for Celtic:

Dinamo Moscow away,

Hapoel away,

Hamburg away.

He came on as a sub in all of them.

Then consider the big games he's start in the last few years and you'll see that he disappears for alot of them. He's an impact player and needs to be used in that way.

I disagree with you about Samaras working in a 3 pronged attack. It might work against the likes of Latvia but he doesn't have the attributes to play as a wide forward. One of the reasons Greece was in such a bad way in Euro 2008 is because we played a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 system without using the correct players for it. Samaras was highly ineffective in the one game he started as a wide left forward. He has to play behind the front man or as a front man in a central position.

As for the predicted line up. I will say this. If Tziolis plays then forget booking a trip to S.A.

Edited by Euro2004
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euro, thanks for the reply...i am not misunderstanding you....i dont want to get into a debate about who is better...it dont matter...what i am saying is that if you play Haristea, you are SEVERLY limiting the bailty for the offense to generate ANY firepower and you are commitng the team to same boring, tight, play not to lose tactics that embarassed us in 08....

again alot of what you have said here is very true, and i agree with it....and, i was a samara detractor for a long time...but honestly, he has made the most improvement as aplayer and as someone that can generate somethng remotely resembling an initial offensive rush....even on the left side with salpi (who has not had much scoring but is a royal pain in the ass to play agaisnt) and gekas that allows for SOME fluidity (if i can say fluidity and greek soccer in the same sentence) up front.......BUT, all this is useless IF THE MIDS DONT PUSH UP AND PLAY BOX TO BOX. there is ssssssssssssssssssoooooo much space at the top of the box every time greece has the ball on th wings and if the mids would trail the play and push up they would not only have a clear shot at teh goal but enough space to do something else......but they rarely ever do.....

haristea needs the ball perfectly place on his head....we dont have tsiarta/zago/etc to feed him like that...and if we continue to waste offensive rushes with donkey balls in the center in the hope of haristea getting his head on it, then we are doomed.....othe than that all he offers is a big heart, hustle and experience...a perfect guy to protect alead, who is dangerous on the counter when the other team is pushing for a tying goal....

so my point is, if you comit to haristea, it is a symbolic gesure tht you are comitng to the 08 style that embarrassed us......i dont remember if played well, but i remeber we lost, and i remember seeing hiom lose at least four golden opportunities right in front of the gaol, two of which he tripped and one where he shot wide with only the goalie to beat......

Edited by mangas21
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According to the reuters

Greece (probable): Kostas Chalkias, Loukas Vintra, Sotiris Kyrgiakos, Evangelos Moras, Nikos Spiropoulos; Giorgos Karagounis, Kostas Katsouranis, Alexandros Tziolis; Giorgos Samaras, Theofanis Gekas, Angelos Charisteas

Ukraine (probable): Andriy Pyatov, Vasyl Kobin, Yaroslav Rakytsky, Oleksander Kucher, Olexiy Gay, Sergiy Nazarenko, Ruslan Rotan, Anatoliy Tymoschuk, Evgeniy Hacherydy, Artem Milevskiy, Andriy Shevchenko

Yes nice lineup...BUT Otto will roll out..

Sifakis , Vyntra,Moras,Soto,Spyropoulos,Karagounis,Katsouranis,Pliatsakas,Samaras,and YES his boy Charisteas ...laugh now but just WATCH.

WOW I'm playing the LOTTO tonite...If I had known Tziolis was ont he squad I would have hit everyone but the Keeper.[/b]

Good LUCK to the EThniki....I read the Stadium will only be 1/2 full or 1/2 empty

Sifakis

Socrates,Moras,Soto,Spyropoulos

................Katsouranis...............

Ninis..................................Koutsianikoulis

..................Karagounis...........................

.......Gekas...........................Samaras...

DARE TO DREAM

could that be our new SLOGAN...PAIDIA all hands on deck the PIRATIKO sets sail for south africa TOMMORROW.

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watch those videos.....then count who we lost, and who we now have.....

also the second video @ 2:00 to 2:10.........when was the last time we had four guys touch the ball with 5 seconds?

rock solid "d" was th foundation and giannakopoulos / zagoraki / deniro pushed it forward with no fear of counter

you think we have ANYTHING remotely similar to that ?

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At Sportfm.gr they say 3-4-3 is the system that Otto will play. It may make sense because the Ukrainians have few strikers and heavy middlefield so we would need to pack the middlefield but also be attacking, so 3-4-3 seems best. But which 4 in the middlefield?

Some say the following:

______________________Tzorvas______________________________

--------------------Moras-----------------Kyriakos-----------------------------

--------------------------Papasta8opoulos-------------------------------------

---Vyntra-------------------------------------------------Spyropoulos--------

-------------------Katsouranis---------Karagounis----------------------------

---------Xaristeas------------------------------Samaras----------------------

------------------------------- Gekas-------------------------------------------

Me Xaristea kai Samara na epistrefoun sto kentro otan amynomaste.

8a protimousa to e3hs:

------------------------------- Tzorvas

-----------------Moras-------------------------------Kyriakos----------------------------

----------Vyntra ---------------------------------------------- Spyropoylos-------------

------Xaristeas--------Katsouranis------Karagounis-------Samaras-------------------

-------------------------------Ninis--------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------Gekas------------------------------------------------------

Me tous Xaristea kai Samara na katebainoune otan epiti8omaste. Xreiazomaste paixtes sto kentro, ekei einai dynatoi oi Oukranoi alla na mporoume na perasoume kai mpalies mprosta me Nini.

8a ginei megalh maxh, elpizw na tous thn kanoume giati mas paizoun polla trick me ta thleoptika kai to ghpedo toys.

Edited by geok
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At Sportfm.gr they say 3-4-3 is the system that Otto will play. It may make sense because the Ukrainians have few strikers and heavy middlefield so we would need to pack the middlefield but also be attacking, so 3-4-3 seems best. But which 4 in the middlefield?

Some say the following:

______________________Tzorvas______________________________

--------------------Moras-----------------Kyriakos-----------------------------

--------------------------Papasta8opoulos-------------------------------------

---Vyntra-------------------------------------------------Spyropoulos--------

-------------------Katsouranis---------Karagounis----------------------------

---------Xaristeas------------------------------Samaras----------------------

------------------------------- Gekas-------------------------------------------

You're right, this is the team we'll see but Vintra will play at centre-back and Papasta as right wing back.

It's too negative. Away from home not bad (except for Haristeas playing on the right, that's a joke!) but Otto and Katsouranis are talking about a 0-0 being an ok result. What is wrong with them? We must keep a clean sheet but a goaless draw is not good enough. 1-0 may not even be good enough!

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Look we don't really know the line up until tomorrow, right? I would go with a 4-4-2, you know, whats the problem with that? We don't have 3 strikers that can play together and communicate up front. Thats why we should only start w/ 2: Samaras and Gekas. With Kats in there as a defensive mid but also with the ability to score surprise goals, we can be good.

Lets give support and be as positive as possible from here on out because the team has talent and the possibilities are there in front of us. Which means forget about the past games w/ Ukraine, they mean nothing, ZERO, we have to concentrate on whats happening NOW. So, the good things we can count on: Gekas will start. Samaras, right? DeNiro, Kats. That right there is fine. Spyro...Kyriakos...Papas? I like Sifakis but will he be ready psychologically for this ridiculously important game? Tzorvas maybe better? Ninis should start but we won't get that...which probably means Salpi. You know my opinion on him...if I had to, I would pick him over Hari since he can actually play on the right. Hari CAN'T play ANYWHERE except in the middle. And Gekas is already there...

So I think we have a good chance to see a decent starting line up. Positive support for this very talented team we have! Altogether now guys, ooooooooooommmm... I really think they can do this. :)

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Haristea is ok when used properly. He's big and aerially capable. Down the middle in a 3-5-2 with Gekas and he'd be fine. Samaras is clearly a very good impact player but isn't effective for 90 mins so he should be the sub, not Haristeas.

He was years ago. Hes been simply awful, and a huge setback for the national team, as him playing comes at the cost of a better player playing, which we have many. Also when Rehagel uses him, its almost always full 90 minutes, and never anything to show for them.

One of the biggest flops in Greek football history - post 2004 he was absolutley nothing for his clubs or country.

Aerially, it is a total stereotype based on his Euro 2004 goals and a few scraps.

Unquestionably, the best Greek aerial player is, and WAS Fanis Gkekas. That man is the only true magician with his head in Greece. At club and country level - the guy gets NO credit for what is quite obvious his strength that is totally superior to Xaristeas. Also, Mantzios is a much more formidable aerial player than Xaristeas has been the last couple years, but he's not in the picture.

One of the biggest failures of Rehagel is his blatant favouritism for Xaristeas who has done next to nothing at all for years now. When Rehagel leaves, there is no way in hell a serious manager is going to give the guy undisputed 90 min games every possible match...

It should be obviously Gkekas, Samaras, and Salpiggidis. they are the best we've got at the moment.

Mitroglou, will not obviously not play, so his call up is basically meaningless in my opinion. He hasnt played senior level, so its not happening, although for the past 4 years after young players are called up people somehow seem suprised and angry when they don't play.

For Tommorow:

As for "3-4-3", I think thats a bit of a lie of what is actually going to be a 5-4-1.

5-4-1/3-4-3 are basically the same formation. Just depends on the height of the wide players, which lets be honest, we know Rehagel will keep them low.

The lineup is horrible. Vyntra on the right? Xaristeas as RF (because thats been effective :LOL: )

I think were not going to win tommroow, well tie, and were not going to the WC2010. Rehagel using 5-4-1.....Bah...Odds are against us, he's setting us up for mediocrity. We will not win in Ukraine (for sure - they have a tougher climate, fans, better team) so if hes not playing to win tommorow, then forget it. Probably be a night to forget.

Greece 0-1 Ukraine tommorow.... :tdown:

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HERE IS WHY SOCCER IS A FUNNY GAME....

WATCH HARISTEA SCORE TWO GOALS TOMORROW AND ALL US HARISTEA DETRACTORS HAVE TO EAT CROW......IT CAN HAPPEN....AND IF IT DOES WAS IT THE RIGHT DECISION?

I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT......I STICK WITH MY INITISL PREDICTIONS....

2-1 LOSS MANANA AND 3-0 LOSS IN UKRAINE........THATS HOW I SEE THE VIBE AND DYNAMIC OF THIS DERBY......

HOW AWESOME WOULD IT BE TO HAVE MITRO/PAPA/NINIS/ READY WITH SEVERAL MATHCES AND FRIENDLIES UNDER THEIR BELT TO GIVE UKRAINE A DIFFERENT LOOK? QUICKER, MORE DANGEROUS.....BUT OTTO IS TO BLAME FOR CALLING THESE GUYS UP AND BURYING THEM ON THE BENCH.....WHATS THEPOINT?

HE HAS DONE ALOT FOR GREEK SOCCER, BASICALLY SHOWING THEM WHAT ITS LIKE TO WIN A BIG TOURNAMNET.....ONCE YOU WIN ONE, IT BECOMES MUCH MORE REAL AND ATTAINBLE TO EVERYONE ELSE....BUT HIS WORKING NEW YOUNG GUYS IN THE LINEUP SO THEY COULD BE READY FOR BIG GAMES HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY AWEFUL......

WITHOUT CHEMISTRY THE TEAM CANT DO BIG THINGS....AT THIS LEVEL IT HAS TO BE INSTINCTUAL ....GO BACK AND WATCH EVEN THE TWO UKRAINE CLIPS ....THE TEAM WAS FLUID, AND KNEW WHAT TO DO IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION WITHOUT HESITATION OR DOUBT....THATS CHEMISTRY.....WE DONT HAVE IT DUE TO THE SUILLY CALLS UPS, SILLY SUBSTITUTIONS, AND LACK OF PLAYING TIME WITH EACH OTHER......

ALL OF US HAVE BEEN YELLING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS....WELL HERE WE ARE, GET OUT TEH OXEGEN TANKS

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Greetings everyone,

well tomorrow is a big game, I think we should expect to see Greece sitting back like we have never seen. In fact we probably wont even try to attack and in all fairness I think this is the best approach. However, Greece needs to sit back and keep posession, you cannot chase the ball for 90mins, nothing moves faster than the ball and it is triring trying get it back all the time only to send up the field back to your opponent. I think Greece needs to play strong defence and keep the ball on the ground! If we can do this perhaps we will get a draw or even better a lucky 1-0 win.

Greece cannot afford to attack, infact most of the games they lose they have lost becuase they are going for goals and are not fast enough as a team to stop a counter attack. In addition, if you watch Greece play closely when they pass the ball to another teamate, they do not follow their pass and close down the space. This is one way of preventing a counter becuase the ball cannot be played back into teh open space in which it was passed. Our players tend to look at their passes when they attack and do not attack the space after the ball is released. Soccer is not only a game of skill, ball movement and defending, often it is about attacking and occupying spaces where the ball can be played.

Most top teams do an excellent job of attacking space that is why they always seem to have a team pinned back with the defening team not able to string a pass.

Since Greece has not employed the tactic of attacking space like they did in the past their offense has become very flat, therefore we must hope our defense can grind out a result.

If Greece can stay tight in the back and keep some possesion I feel that is the best thing we can do with players we have. There is no Zag, Tsarta, Giannkopoulos, Basinas or Vryzas to drive the team forward and play smart football.

If you watch the highlights of Greece 1-0 Ukraine Zero you will see what I am talking about. Anyway, if Greece can do those two things I mentioned above I belive they might have a chance.

My last point, I noticed that in every sucessful qualiyfing campaign Greece has one big break out game in 04 it was vs spain, 08 it was vs turkey, at home, lets see if Greece suprises us tomorrow!!!! You never know they are crazy like that!

possible line up (ps rehaggel always has a suprise up his sleeves for these games)

___________________________Tzorvas__________________________________

(stay back Defender) Libero CB might help attack

Vyntra ___________Moras_____Kyriakos__________Papastathopoulos_____

Man mark sheva Cut balls out

_____________________Katsouranis________Tziolis________________________________________Salpi________________________Karagounis______________

(speed on wing close down defenders) (hustle)

___________________________Charisteas________________________________

(chase ball around play D)

(finish a flukey goal)

_____________________________Gekkas_______________________________

this is not my strategy nor what I would like to see this is what I think we will see and how rehaggel will play.

cheers boy :gr: :gr: ellas ole 1) tight D 2) keep the ball = possible qualification to wc 2009!

Edited by IRAKLIS
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Geok, Moras instead of Papastathopoulos ... why?

Genome, this about Moras and Papasta8opoulos is what I call "radio arvyla" from sportfm. In my opinion this would be catastrophic because offensively the Ukranians are quite fast and the central defense of Greece would be very slow.

It may be a decoy from Otto to fool the opposition. As this game is one of the most important games ever for our squad, every trickery is allowed I guess!

As Clover22 said nobody knows the lineup until tomorrow (well perhaps Beate knows :LOL: ) and I think we should be positive because deep inside we all know that our team has the balls to pull this out, especially because Karagounis will give his life in the pitch, that is for sure, just watch him tomorrow, he wants to go to the world cup!

Back to the game: What happened is not important, just remember a couple of friendlies against Netherlands and Poland back in 2004 and then we lifted it. So that does not count. The balls of the players in these two games count. Kara and Katsouranis will need a lot of help up there as the Ukranians will pack the middlefield. Unfortunately we seem to have a problem there so perhaps for Otto to solve it he may need to pack the defense a little bit more. As for upfront, the strikers need "feeding" balls and only Ninis can do that. Because Ninis and Salpi know eachother well from Pao may it makes sense to use them both.

I agree with Charisteas, Gekas is more up to form and he must be the one playing in the centre. Charisteas should be on the bench, but Otto is the coach so....

I will be pleased if I see our team giving their 100% and whatever happens really, at least to see and to know that they did their best. We are a bit unfortunate because really with Seitaridis and Patsa we would have a couple of much needed solutions and Torosidis is also valuable.

I also agree with the insight of IRAKLIS, our team does not take advantage of the open spaces when attacking and it pretty much static in offense. That is why they must focus on defending well. Its also a strategy game and I am sure that Ukraine will be pleased with a 0-0 draw in the first game.

Lets see how Otto will solve this, true the odds are against us on this one and he has to pull something spectacular tomorrow to get through this. It will be a game of 1 goal, but if the Ukranians score first it may be more for them. It is important not to concede any goal. 0-0, 1-0 would be my expectation for tomorrow.

Does anyone know the weak points of the Ukranians?

I don't remember ever being more excited about a Greece game after 2004 as I am now!

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