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2010 World cup qualification -- UEFA Second Round


as5664

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So far, this is the provisional seeding for the play-offs; and assuming neither Ukraine, Slovenia, Ireland, or Bosnia jump more than 10 pts in the ranking (which is unlikely), it seems the seeding below should be expected.

Assuming Otto doesn't field lineup we had in the past month, I think we have a pretty good chance of qualifying. The obvious choices are Bosnia and Slovenia. Otto must NOT screw up another qualifying opportunity handed to us on a silver platter!!!

Seeding and draw

The matches will be played on 14 and 18 November 2009, with a draw for the ties to be held in Zürich on 19 October. The eight teams will be seeded according to the FIFA World Rankings to be released on 16 October. The top four teams will be seeded into one pot, with the bottom four teams seeded into a second. A separate draw will be conducted between each matchup, to decide who will host the first leg.[5]

Pot A

Team Rank

Russia 6

France 10

Greece 12

Portugal 17

Pot B

Team Rank

Ukraine 25

Republic of Ireland 38

Bosnia and Herzegovina 46

Slovenia 54

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I'm going to give Otto some credit.

He has managed to get us to two Euro's and now has us on the verge of qualifying for the World Cup (yes I know we should have already qualified in a weak group)

When he took over in 2001 we were a disgrace. He reinvented the side and ended up pulling off the miracle of a lifetime.

Now he has once again reinvented the side again with the introduction of some new blood. In Gekas, Samaras, Papastathopoulos, Sifakis, Torodsidis, Karagounis, Katsouranis, Giourkas, Spyropoulos and Ninis we have the nucleus of a very good side.

I honestly feel Sifakis is a huge find. He's loud and looks very shore of himself.

Our biggest liabilities are Moras and Avraam. Both are F*CKED!!! With Kyriakos out he needs to find a partner for Papasthathopoulos at the back.

Kyriakos Papadopoulos?? Too young maybe but I have faith that Otto will come good.

Does Dellas at 33 have two good games left in him? Knows Papastathopoulos game well from their time together at AEK. Bring back the Colossus of Rhodes!!!

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rogue, did u find it curious that in the Lux game, an obviously crucial game, he put 7 new guys in? This made no sense to me....if he cant turst new guys in less meaningful games, how can you do it in such an important one...?

Who were the 7?

Otto is making changes as he is looking for answers and running out of time. He knows changes need to be made but we don't have the players. It's not like we have huge pool to choose from.

Maybe the loss to the Swiss and draw against Moldova was the straw that broke the camel's back.

He played Chalkias who let him down, gave Tsorvas a shot and he was awful, went with Sifiakis bingo.

Why do you think he is persisting with Avraam and Moras??? The poor bastard has no options!!!

I think Otto made a huge error in Euro 08 by moving away from the wing back system of 04.

He seems to have moved back to that which pleases me no end, we look so much more dangerous in attack. For me Giourkas and Torosidis are as good as any overlaps backs in world football. I'm not BS you. Even Spyropoulos looks good coming forward which mean we can push Toro into the midfield.

Sort out our CB's and we'll be worthy of our ranking as the 12th best team in world football.

Don't forget against Lux we were missing 6 players due to injury or suspension - Samaras, Giourkas, Katsouranis, Amanatidis, Charisteas and Papasthathopoulos

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rogue, good points as always...

regarding players i personally think haristea and amanatidis have a much diminished role....is it any coincidence that they look a little better on offense with these guys out?

as far as 04 vs. 08 we did not have the skills to replicate teh 04 system...i mentioned this prior to 08 euro, that we were not as tight defensively and w/o zagoraki/tsiarta/vryza the transition game was much slower (basina / a clueless kastourani and several out ofposition players)

todays team lacks what all dangerus offensive teams seem to have - mids that can play box to box and quickly transition form d to o before the other team has the chance to react...every now and then deniro can drive teh team forward but he needs help..torosid and kastourani for me are the keys here....some spped, some skill and no fear to play deep....if u dont think this is true, just consider that its not unusual for greek players, especially forwards, to lead their foreign leagues in scoring....why? becuase they get the support form the mids who push up the play and feed them the ball....so, gekas / samaras / even salpi can score if they get the supoort of BOX TO BOX play form the mids....

will otto permit this? does he but the team does not do it? i dont know.....it ultimately the players who make the coach look good....its otto job to assess talent and skills and creatre a system that puts theplayers IN THE POSITION to SUCCEED...he cant kick the ball into the net for them...you know?

now again, he does some inexplicable things, but if we could finsh moldova game would have been 5-1.....and this whole conversation would be very very different....

i think we have the ability to beat any team we play in the playoff round if we bring our A game.....superior teams can bring their B game or even C game and still win....but Greece needs to be on match day, and further they need to maximize their abilty on the pitch....

an old basktball coach once told me "getting the most out your talent is in itself a talent"...if the team maxes out and plays hard and virtually mistake free i really think they will have a relatively easy time in theplauyoffs......and, if you read my posts, you will see that I am very tough in my opinions about this squad, but the right scheme wih the right mix of players, i think they wuill be ok...

this is the main citicism i haev of otto.....chemistyr in the pitch, especially when you are trying to create a new identity and ilk for a team, its critical....you dont start making htese types of substituions in your final three games of qualifying........

you play more frinedlies, ge the new guys in then, play the guys you call up instead of sitting them on the bench, and keep a new core in tact....i mean that s what is logical, dont you think?

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My take on the playoffs.

This will be the first time ever that Greece will try to qualify in a major tournament from the UEFA playoffs. In our own right, Otto and the boys have to look deep and say why did they make this qualifying campaign look so hard? Look at the brightside to this, we get to see 2 matches that mean something in November that only 7 other countries have that same privledge. We cannot always get a free pass like Greece have done in the past. You got to work hard and earn your badge to play in a major tournament like the World Cup.

I have some good news in regards to Sotiris Kyrgiakos, his injury is not as severe as first thought, it's a deep bone bruise around his knee. He will be out about 4 to 5 weeks instead of 4 months as first indicated. Chances are he could be back for action in the second leg of the UEFA playoffs.

In the upcoming draw this Monday, I personally do not care who we take. Every team in that group (Bosnia-Herzegovina, Ireland, Ukraine, Slovenia) are tough and we should all know better that there are no weak teams in that group. Bring on anybody, I know I have the faith and courage to believe this Greek team will show up and fight ever ounce of sweat, blood, and tears there is in our guys.

MOLON LAVE ! :gr: :nw: :gr: :nw: :gr: :nw: :gr: :nw: :gr:

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Well they're finally starting to play like an organized team since a good choice of players were used in the last couple of games (and Toro in his natural position against Lux - astonishing) so at their best they can beat any of these guys but I think the easiest would be Ireland or Slovenia.

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if moldova can tie us, then really ANY team can beat any team on any given day.....

the problem with greece right now is they have no identity....what are they? a powerhouse offensive team? no...a rock solid defensive team? nope....a counter attacking donkey ball team? maybe...

in 04 the team had a brand...rock solid defense with danger in the counter attack...not so much any more....otto, in my opion, waitied too long to mold teh squad into something definable, waiting too long to abnadon the formula that worked in 04....

so, now we are struggling to find out who we are...why is this important? well because as a team you have to know what you are good at and then, only then can you execute that style over and voer and make it work in a game time environment...you are confident, and you can IMPOSE YOUR WILL ON THE OTHER TEAM...

greece NEVER did this until euro 04...that team did a few things and did them well...defense and a good counter....now they cant impose their will becuase they dont know what they are good at..thats the way i see it.....

this is ottos fualt...he took too long to re shape the team and in teh process teh teams psycology drifted from trying to replicate 04 style, which they arent good enough to do, to trying to be more offensive, which brazil they are not.....

sorry for the long winded analysis, but ithow i see it.....

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M21,

"as far as 04 vs. 08 we did not have the skills to replicate teh 04 system...i mentioned this prior to 08 euro, that we were not as tight defensively and w/o zagoraki/tsiarta/vryza the transition game was much slower (basina / a clueless kastourani and several out of position players)"

100% agree!! Our biggest problem since 04 has been our inability to score goals. Stack our midfield and defensive - and then try and score on the counter or from a set piece. No Tsiartas, Nikolaidis, Gianakopoulos, Zagorakis etc.. has left our attack looking bare.

The biggest issue I've had is that we changed our system to accommodate for the loss of these players. We started Euro 08 playing with 5 defenders!!! Embarrassing.

This is why it looks like we don't have that quick transition, there was no one to transition too - our forwards where isolated due to our new defensive formation.

Otto had has reason for doing this - lack of quality to choose form??

In Karagounis, Katsouranis and Toro we have three midfielders who can play box to box.

I think our inability to directly qualify has been a blessing in disguise!!! He has finally gone back to 4 in defense with our left and right backs overlapping (Spyro and Giourkas) and all of a sudden we have options.

Samaras must start. Otto's reluctance to start him has been very frustrating. What people need to realise is that Samaras is not an out and out striker. He is a forward who can play deep and that's one hell of an asset to have. Again I agree - Charisteas and Amantidis have a diminished role.. and granted they don't have the quality of Samaras but again they can play slightly deeper offering the team options.

Gekas on the other hand is a poacher, leads the line beautifully.

I can't blame Otto for making changes with 3 games to go. He tried things and they didn't work. What can you do. I think the changes have been very positive. Greece was going nowhere with Chalkias or Tzorvas in goal.

I'm confident we can qualify... and once we do let the cleaning up of od the dead wood begin - Tzorvas, Avraam Pap, Moras, Fotakis, Salpi?

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I have some good news in regards to Sotiris Kyrgiakos, his injury is not as severe as first thought, it's a deep bone bruise around his knee. He will be out about 4 to 5 weeks instead of 4 months as first indicated. Chances are he could be back for action in the second leg of the UEFA playoffs.

I do not wish injury upon anyone but Sotiris Kyriakos is a liability. I've posted this several times. Greece won Euro 04 cause he was injured at the time.

He lacks the composure, intelligence and positioning of a Dellas

If you don't believe me go watch his performance in Euro 08 against Sweden. Here is a player who got caught out playing for the foul instead of trying to win the ball which directly led to Sweden's second goal. He then feigned injury trying to cover up.

Against Israel he created 3 chances for them by unnecessarily slide tackling every blade of grass, missing every time instead of staying on his feet.

We have one quality option at the back - Papastathopoulos

Dellas and Kyriakos Papadopoulos are our only other choices. Moras and Avraam Pap are disgusting.

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r, think we agree on most points...i was dead wrong about samara....i thought he was a "tsitsifiongo" and too soft....but i got that wrong....he is an asset for sure..he is not the next coming of ronaldo, but for sure he brings an elment we lack....

haristea, though u gotta luv the guy for sentimental reasons if nothing else, is atrocious for anyhting other than a well placed cross for aheader...other than that his work rate, hustle and passion - not to mention exprience - is valuable for late sub to protect alead....i have not seen anything from amanatidi to impresss me...in fact he has missed many good opportunities.....

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavvvvvvvvvvrrrrrrrrrrrrammmmmmmmmmm!! need i say more......

i think slapi can be effective, he is the kind of tough, rugged pain in the ars you hate to play against.....but our problem is midfield....de niro cant do it alone....i cant remember ONE TIME where the box was crowded and the ball gets passed back to the top of the box (where its always wide open with toms of space) for someone to smash home what amoutns to a penalty shot.......never....its always set oiece, donkey ball, headers, etc....we tried alittle short passing vs Lux, and although i dont expect brazilian soccer, i cant see why we cant move up ou mids and push the paly to the opposition that way....maybe i am mssing something "soccer related" since i did not paly organized soccer....but i play ice hockey and its similar as far as teams moving throug the transsition zone together or seperate.....

i mean what does it take? having to run back? they not fast enough? or not confident enough to play that style....

anybody can explain?

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Mangas21 good posts; but lets not forget the reason we tied Moldova: bad formation/tactics. I think our midfield and attack has potential even if our defense won't be as good as it was in 04. But then who had a defense as good as ours back then?

The problem for the longest time was Ottos 4-3-3 thing which obviously didn't work. Now you saw in the last couple of games they're not using that anymore and voila! Its great we have players w/ dimension: Kats and Toro can be defensive but can also attack and score; VERY important for us. We can keep Haristeas as a sub for Gekas if things are going well. Remember he was one of the better players in Euro 08 so he can rise to the occasion. But he has stay down the middle; he's not an attacking mid and he's not a #11.

Ever since the locker room argument things have changed for the better. That looks like an indication that the team is self confident.

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thnx c....look i think we have enough skill to get to the WC and to advance a round, or two....i am this teams worst critic, and a crazy fan at the same time, like all of us....but i can and am objective for the sake of a meaningful discussion...

we have enough guys...the problem is this team lacks chemistry...witout it there is no trust, and without that there is no propensity to take chances....all u need to do is use the 04 team as an example of how far you can go with unity, effort, chemistry and trust.....

for us, off the ball tactics, rugged physical play and confidence in the way we play is key.....04 team had the same guys time after time...they develop a rythym, a chemistry, everyone knew what the other guys were gonna do in every given situation that came up, instantaneously and without hesitation.....at this level a split second delay in making the pass or picking up the man, or shooting is all it takes....this team is still in second gear trying to find itself....otto is to blame for not bringign young guys in earlier and creating CONSISTENCY among the [players and an identity that they can collectively practice and eventually execute....

any team sport is disrupted when u are constantly chnaging personel.....i hope the next two games will show a more unified squad.....i dont really care about offensive soccer defensive soccer thats all garbage...winning soccer is what matters, and if w had the gys to play like 04 then sure....but we dont...

i thnk with this squad we need to push the mids up (toro/kast/de niro) and put a little more pressure on the other teams defense....this way we force them to counter...if you force the other team to make the perfect pass or the perfect long ball then if they do it, hats off...but more oftent hat not they dont.......

just my opinion.....

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i absolutely LOVE the approach this guy is taking - its what we need to do......

Bosnia coach prays for France play-off draw to avenge Croatia defeat

Bosnia coach Miroslav Blazevic said he wants his team to draw France in the European play-offs for the 2010 World Cup to avenge Croatia's semi-final defeat in 1998 when he was in charge.

confidence boardering on cockyness....u better belive Serbia will go for the juggler...none of this "pray for the weakest team nonsense".....its more like "bring it on, we will beat anyone, and we especially would like to crush France "

awesome...

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i absolutely LOVE the approach this guy is taking - its what we need to do......

Bosnia coach prays for France play-off draw to avenge Croatia defeat

Bosnia coach Miroslav Blazevic said he wants his team to draw France in the European play-offs for the 2010 World Cup to avenge Croatia's semi-final defeat in 1998 when he was in charge.

confidence boardering on cockyness....u better belive Serbia will go for the juggler...none of this "pray for the weakest team nonsense".....its more like "bring it on, we will beat anyone, and we especially would like to crush France "

awesome...

Serbia? :blink:

Careful what you say because the board is liable to be flooded by Bosnians and Serbs to set you straight :P

He says that but in reality they are all praying for Greece.

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Tardelli (Trappatoni's no.2 at Ireland) also said he wants to get Greece. On Goal.com, BBC Sport and on FIFA.com fans are leaving messages to declare how they hope to get Greece. I hope our prima donnna players (Seitaridis, Katsouranis, etc) are offended by this and get their fingers our their arses for the qualifiers. Let's send a message!

The draw is at 2pm CET. Fingers crossed.

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euro, one thing i can tell u about the irish, they will DEFINATELY give 100% effort - Keane is a real hot head - talneted and hotheaded - i dont think he would let them lose....call me crazy but I much prefer, as a fan, slovenia france, serbia/ireland. In a playoff will wins very often....its not like the irish have no skills.....they do...but they hustel their asses off...as a culture their social interaction is much more "anal" about effort than we are......they are dangerous for us because our skill level is not that much higher than theirs, but they will outhuslt us......

we really need to come together, and MUST push and paly box to box....if not then its a shooting gallery on our defense.

actually the deniro i would prefer for these games is the one from Cape Fear.....jajajajjjaa

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euro, one thing i can tell u about the irish, they will DEFINATELY give 100% effort - Keane is a real hot head - talneted and hotheaded - i dont think he would let them lose....call me crazy but I much prefer, as a fan, slovenia france, serbia/ireland. In a playoff will wins very often....its not like the irish have no skills.....they do...but they hustel their asses off...as a culture their social interaction is much more "anal" about effort than we are......they are dangerous for us because our skill level is not that much higher than theirs, but they will outhuslt us......

we really need to come together, and MUST push and paly box to box....if not then its a shooting gallery on our defense.

It's funny you say that because I really fear Ireland. Like you say, they're passionate. They're also good aerially which nullifies our aerial threat. They were also undefeated in qualifying. That really would be a battle of wills and like you say they have heart.

Having said that the Ukraine are a better team and travelling there in November will be like playing eskimos in an igloo stadium! Getting a result away in the Ukraine is certainly harder than getting a result at Croke Park.

Bosnia are also tough, let's not forget that they pipped Turkey to the post. On top of that they have Dzeko, Misimovic, Rahimic, Ibisevic, etc. They are full of attacking talent and are better than Ireland. However Ireland's style of play causes me more concern than Bosnia.

Slovenia are neat and solid but we'd take them if we're serious.

All in all my first choice would be Slovenia, 2nd choice Bosnia (simply because I fear Ireland's style of play), 3rd choice Ireland, and we have to really hope we avoid the Ukraine.

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Bosnia are also tough, let's not forget that they pipped Turkey to the post. On top of that they have Dzeko, Misimovic, Rahimic, Ibisevic, etc.

They're good but let's not overrate them. Last year (or was it 2007?) we beat them (over two games) 7-1 ...
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