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dark_horse

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Fellow Hellenic Citizens of the world...

This is how the Play Offs work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_Wor...FA_Second_Round

- with Ukraine beating England, Croatia is now highly unlikely to make 2nd position

- This means Greece is very likely to be seeded

- the FIFA rankings will be revealed / updated 16 October after all Qualifiers are done and dusted.....right now Greece looks like being seeded with Russia, France and Portugal..

We are likely to draw one of Ireland, Bosnia, Slovenia or Ukraine...

:box:

:tup:

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I ADDED A SIMILAR POST SOME TIME AGO

QUESTION:

WHY OUR LEAGUE SIDES EG, OLYMPIAKOS, PAO ETC DO NOT WEAR THE GREEK FLAG SOMEWHERE ON THEIR SLEEVE OR CHEST AS OTHER PROUD EUROPEAN CLUBS DO???

I WAS WATCHING IRELAND V ITALY, THE ITALIANS ARE VERY PROUD OF THEIR FLAG ON ALL TOPS, BOTH DOMESTIC, EUROPE AND NATIONAL...AS DO THE DUTCH...

OK, ONE CAN ARGUE OUR ETHNIKI ESSENTIALLY WEARS THE FLAG...

AEK HAD THE GREEK FLAG ON THE SLEEVE, HAS THAT BEEN REMOVED ALSO????

THIS IS NATIONAL PRIDE PEOPLE....

:angry:

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http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/...ullranking.html

You're right Hellene I've just seen the rankings again and I'd made a mistake. The Ukraine are ranked above us in the UEFA rankings, but in the FIFA rankings we're well ahead of them (God know how that works out).

Let's hope that Ukraine beat Andorra so we can secure our spot. To understand how much of a bonus being seeded is, consider this. If the Ukraine were ranked above us (as they are by UEFA) they would be the team we'd be praying to draw (rather than Portugal, France or Russia). Now the Ukraine (along with Bosnia) is the one we want to avoid! :P

Ukraine are a solid team that does not concede many goals and they play in front of a difficult home crowd. They're good on the break would be a major obstacle.

Bosnia are filled with frightening attacking talent (Dzeko, Misimovic and Ibisevic) but they can be a little wobbly at the back. Nonetheless I'd be a little scared of them.

Ireland have had an excellent campaign but they are only slightly better than Cyprus. They do have numerous excellent individual players though, Keane, Given and O'Shea to name a few. A serious Greece (with the proper selection!) should beat them though. Having said this, Ireland are unbeaten in this qualifying campaign.

Slovenia are solid and a neat passing team but not as good as Greece.

So overall our prospects are good.

Hellene, as far as I'm aware the only Greek club team I can think of that wears the badge is Xanthi. I agree with you, it should be a standard feature.

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I dont care who we play... Valte mesa ton Nini.... What Pliatsika kai trixes katsares..

We need to improve offensively.. and he puts in a DM and takes off Kara... How do u think that makes Ninis feel. Watching some average bloke like Pliatsika get on the field....

Bollocks

Ninis should get at least 45 mins vs Luxemb.. and we better pot in at least 4 or ill be dissapointed.

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I dont care who we play... Valte mesa ton Nini.... What Pliatsika kai trixes katsares..

We need to improve offensively.. and he puts in a DM and takes off Kara... How do u think that makes Ninis feel. Watching some average bloke like Pliatsika get on the field....

Bollocks

Ninis should get at least 45 mins vs Luxemb.. and we better pot in at least 4 or ill be dissapointed.

You know what I can't understand, Pliatsikas was shocking for Greece U21 against England. He was hands down the worst player on the pitch. Yet he's the one handed the chance today ahead of the a kid that's been one of the best Greek players in the league this year. You know why? Because he plays in Germany and Otto watches him, as opposed to our league.

Tzorvas was also appalling today, what on earth made Rehaggel pick him? He's only PAO's number 1 because Galinovic has been so poor. He's essentially a reserve club keeper that's Greece's number 1. Can anyone actually argue that Tzorvas is better or in better form than Chalkias or Chiotis?

People are raving about the 2nd half performance and I actually can't believe it! We were poor, but they were poorer! They are no better than a lowly Superleague team. Do you guys honestly believe that Latvia would beat PAS Giannina or Kavala?

The team is disjointed (i.e. no link between the lines - defence and midfield, and midfield and attack). It lacks pace and positional awareness. The front line doesn't have the correct balance and the midfield is too immobile. This team is shambolic! Tziolis and Tzorvas have no business on the team. Samaras on the left doesn't work (he may have played well tonight against a village team but against decent opposition he'd get eaten out there). Gekas is too small to play as a lone front man, we saw in Euro 2008 that that does not work. In other words, not only are Otto's selections wrong, the formation he picks cannot work either.

Perhaps it's not practical to sack him now, but as long as he's at the helm we will always be mediocre. He was a great manager but he's too old now. He doesn't travel the world to watch Greeks (in Britain & France... he doesn't even travel to Greece!) because of his age. He has to move on.

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I agree with your comments Euro2004...having said all that boys, the Play Offs will be a totally different ball game....clean sheet, turn the page stuff.... Those 4 teams mentioned, will also fear coming to a absolutely packed to the rafters OAKA or Karaiskaki....kyrgiakos and spyropoulos did not play today and yes, Latvia were weak and Greece played to a low quality game in large patches and areas of their game...

Ukraine should beat Andorra, who are winless, ensuring our seeding...

I agree with Euro2004, all the unseeded teams are dangerous, but Greece is capable of beating any on their day..you would rather be playing Bosnia or Slovenia over two legs rather than Russia or France any day!!

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dont know if anyone mentioned this.....because group nine has one less team, all the points the runners up collected against tthe last place team in theior division dont count..............so the four pointe we got against moldova (who is last) dont count againt our total points.......same goes for all the other runner ups....therefore, since we can expect that most of them did get 6 poin against the last place team, it may change the way the seeds go....................

either way, lets see how it shakes out after teh last game since the totals are not final yet....

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Ijust finished watching the game now, well some of you need a lesson in keeping the faith....I KNEW WE WERE GOING TO SCORE!!!! I BELIEVED WE WOULD FIGHT BACK......F***EN TAKE A BOW GKEKAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is a national treasure we must enjoy!!!!

BTW all you who thought bahrain would "destroy" NZ, let me tell you that they played like frightend spider monkeys and put 11 back....0-0. Come November 14 in NZ the all whites will dominate bahrain and win 3-0 and will join Greece in SA2010...

till luxembourg people

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Brilliant performance from Gekas and should of been given the opportunity at Portsmouth. The penalty gave us a boost to score more goals. If only we had beaten Moldova, we would of had a chance of winning the group. Here's highlights from the match.

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QUESTION:

WHY OUR LEAGUE SIDES EG, OLYMPIAKOS, PAO ETC DO NOT WEAR THE GREEK FLAG SOMEWHERE ON THEIR SLEEVE OR CHEST AS OTHER PROUD EUROPEAN CLUBS DO???

I WAS WATCHING IRELAND V ITALY, THE ITALIANS ARE VERY PROUD OF THEIR FLAG ON ALL TOPS, BOTH DOMESTIC, EUROPE AND NATIONAL...AS DO THE DUTCH...

OK, ONE CAN ARGUE OUR ETHNIKI ESSENTIALLY WEARS THE FLAG...

AEK HAD THE GREEK FLAG ON THE SLEEVE, HAS THAT BEEN REMOVED ALSO????

THIS IS NATIONAL PRIDE PEOPLE....

:angry:

:off:

WHO CARES

Tzorvas was not appauling, people really are being a bit ridicuous. He had a shaky moment first half, and the goal.......Honestly, the guy received a quick shot from inside the box and does whatever anybody can to get to it, it happened to fall to an unmarked player. Its part of football, blaming him??? He could do better, but this is not justifying "appalling" comments.

As for the 2nd goal you cant' seriously fault the keeper for that, keepers never stop those efforts, only in miracles.

We are also calling the offense horrible? The ethniki was making chances all game long, 1st half too, and we had 5 goals, and we were pressing like crazy, had posessions, and making series of chances. That's nowhere close to horrible, not on planet earth anyways. We are way better without Xaristeas, and with some space to attack. OAKA is a bigger pitch, and it did us quite well.

Euro2004 your just unbeleivable. 2nd half was poor??

We had so many chances and 3 goals. What the F**** do you want? Honeslty? Latvia crawled back into this group contnetion and we smashed them 5-2. Give the ethniki SOME credit, eleos! As for PAS Giannina and Kavala, these are teams that held AEK and OSFP so enough already.....

I agree Otto makes bad decisions and shouldn't be future coach, but seriously, he does not deserve to be sacked. The team came out and hit 3 goals second half.

Critizing Pliatsikas coming on ? We needed him more than Ninis, as we need our holding mids to be NT ready. We were up 4-2 and having no shortage of offense whatsoever.

As for playoffs, Bosnia worries me the most, Ireland I'd prefer although theyre very tough too.

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I would like to chip in. I think we did well and if we make it to the world cup we can't judge our chances on how we got to the world cup. We scored more points in the euro 2008 qualification, but where did that get us? Three defeats in a row.

What was stunning was the difference in both campaigns, we believed in ourselves no matter how down things were in 2004 and in 2008, we played like we had a yoke around our necks.

In regards to the play offs, I think we can deal with Slovenia or Bosnia. Ukraine we have a very poor record against and Ireland is dangerous. I can't see us get past anyone unless we replace avram. He has gifted Switzerland with two victories against us and if he didn't exist, I'm certain we would not be talking about play offs.

The things we need is to tighten the defense and invite Giourkas to attack more like he did in 2004.

Once we get to the World Cup, who knows, but let's get there first.

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I'm just enjoying this for whatever it's worth. Hopefully Greece will qualify for the World Cup. However, I don't have higher hopes than that. I don't want to see another repeat of the last euro, 3 straight defeats (deservingly so).

Otto should have retired a few years ago.

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couple of things....

first, its more than clear that haristeas is finished as a starter....he is now useful for a defensive forward to protect a lead....thats it....

second, the importance of a good #10 to set things up and feed the guys up front;

how much involvment did karagouni provide? he was very active

the problem with otto (and al coaches for that matter) is the ability tobridge the gap between his "older, trusted players" and the "young, inexperienced but future players".....some ciaches do this way better than others and you hardly notice a big dropoff in performance. Otto on the other hand stuck with his tursted guys too long, did not arrange enough friendly games to test the young guys and as a result whatever team he puts out there has no "chemistry"....

better teams have that, an identity and a chemistry where everyone understands where tey need to be, when and under what circumstances....soccer is not only about running fast and chasing, its about off the ball tactics, positioning, support play.....the 04 team had it....one style, everyone understood it, and the abilities of those players fit that style....

now with new skills available form new player, creating unity requires the same guys over and over - otto missed the boat on this ......

so now we are struggling to qualify when, i believe if yesterdays lineup was implemented last year (w/ kyriakos/spy) moldova would have been 4-1 at least, and our showings vs. swiss would have been better (in mu humble opinion)

dont get me wrong, i dont mean to suggest we would be a powerhouse nation if these thigns did happen....but i do believe we would have qualified already in this weaker group....the difference between 1-1 in moldova and 5-1 was very slight...

otto did not give the team confidence to pay more offensive ball....he kept his defensive priorities and the signal that sends the team is "you guys arent good enough to play that way"......so the team continues to try and find itself and establsh an identity....thats why the performances have been so inconsistent and uneven.....

and.......how the hell can we put 5 goals in latvia and only 1 in moldova.....??????

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Tzorvas was not appauling, people really are being a bit ridicuous. He had a shaky moment first half, and the goal.......Honestly, the guy received a quick shot from inside the box and does whatever anybody can to get to it, it happened to fall to an unmarked player. Its part of football, blaming him??? He could do better, but this is not justifying "appalling" comments.

As for the 2nd goal you cant' seriously fault the keeper for that, keepers never stop those efforts, only in miracles.

WHAT???? Tzorvas was terrible! What are you talking about? Did you even watch the game? When Galinovic was a joke against Atletico you were also saying he was good. So I've realised that either you know nothing about goalkeeping or you're blinkered because they play for PAO.

Tzorvas was poor for the first goal. The ball has to be parried to the side, not up and in the middle! He also flapped at numerous crosses and spilled a couple of simple saves (like the low, harmless shot in the 2nd half that resulted in a goal mouth scramble). Tzorvas is not good enough for international football. He's been poor every time he's played for Greece it's as simple as that.

We are also calling the offense horrible? The ethniki was making chances all game long, 1st half too, and we had 5 goals, and we were pressing like crazy, had posessions, and making series of chances. That's nowhere close to horrible, not on planet earth anyways.  We  are way better without Xaristeas, and with some space to attack. OAKA is a bigger pitch, and it did us quite well.

We played with an awful lot of crosses into the box. Many of these crosses came from Karagounis, Torosidis and Seitaridis. Many of these crosses came from quite a way out, 35 yards from the goal-touchline for instance. Any good quality team will deal with those crosses with ease, Latvia were unorganised though and not placing any real pressure on our wide players. A better team (like one we'd play in the play-offs) wouldn't be troubled by this. It's not as if we played free flowing football that opened them up. We were actually quite unimiganitive but had a top class striker at the top of his game at our disposal that tore them apart.

Critizing Pliatsikas coming on ? We needed him more than Ninis, as we need our holding mids to be NT ready. We were up 4-2 and having no shortage of offense whatsoever.

There was no way that they would get back into the game. We didn't need anyone on. It was simply an exercise in giving someone some experience. Pliatsikas' poor performances for the U21s means he hasn't earned his chance.

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I thought yesterday was Tzorvas first start for Ethniki... other than the friendly vs Italy.. which he was fantastic in.

As for yesterday... it showed he was nervous but no way was he horrible

HE made some fantastic saves... As for the first goal.... you cant blame him for not directign a diving save a certain way.. especially after the piss poor defensive play by Toro beign directly responsible for that goal..

Ninis shouls play over pliatsikas no matter how many DMs are hurt.

Kara, Kats, Pats and Tziolis are all ahead of Pliatsika at DM/CM depth chart. Ninis is 19.. Let the Kid play

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Did you even watch the game? When Galinovic was a joke against Atletico you were also saying he was good. So I've realised that either you know nothing about goalkeeping or you're blinkered because they play for PAO.

Tzorvas was poor for the first goal. The ball has to be parried to the side, not up and in the middle! He also flapped at numerous crosses and spilled a couple of simple saves (like the low, harmless shot in the 2nd half that resulted in a goal mouth scramble). Tzorvas is not good enough for international football. He's been poor every time he's played for Greece it's as simple as that.

We played with an awful lot of crosses into the box. Many of these crosses came from Karagounis, Torosidis and Seitaridis. Many of these crosses came from quite a way out, 35 yards from the goal-touchline for instance. Any good quality team will deal with those crosses with ease, Latvia were unorganised though and not placing any real pressure on our wide players. A better team (like one we'd play in the play-offs) wouldn't be troubled by this. It's not as if we played free flowing football that opened them up. We were actually quite unimiganitive but had a top class striker at the top of his game at our disposal that tore them apart.

There was no way that they would get back into the game. We didn't need anyone on. It was simply an exercise in giving someone some experience. Pliatsikas' poor performances for the U21s means he hasn't earned his chance.

Euro 2004, you have absolutley no clue about goalkeeping man. I've played keeper and I was damn good too.

The guy was in no way horrible. He had a shaky instance or two but thats not horrible.

Did you even watch that first goal? I'm sorry man, he parried a quick shot out of nowhere, and theres a slim chance a quick rebound will be saved when your tracking over like that. Even the British commentator on Setanta claimed there was nothing he could do. Watched it again. Youre out of your mind or you don't have one to begin with if you call that his fault, or calling that horrible keeping even.

As for the parry, watch again and check the angle. That was high and to the side, as much as the guy could to in a split second. Sometimes you can only react so fast to get anything to it, generally your better off parrying OVER in this case. The shot came in the blink of instant because of an amateur clearance by Torosidis.

Verpakovskis was waiting on the side unmarked and with enough space to perform and overhead kick.

As for the 2nd goal, if you think was his fault, then you've lost the plot.

Blinded that they're PAO? No, I don't do that. I have no problem criticizing ANY PAO player, thats something quite clear, I am accused of doing nothing but critisize those guys, thats why I'm not bothering posting in the PAO thread anymore.

BTW, I never said Galinovic was good vs Atletico. I just didn't blame every goal on him, because they werent all his fault. Your just a pretty poor judge of keepers is all.

Tzorvas just didn't do anything wrong to put the team in jeopardy.

2 goals he had no chance on. He had one instance with Verpakovskis beat him to the ball because he froze and didn't commit, that was a very shaky instance that would have been his fault had Verpa scored. Other than that he was fine man.

NikosVazelas, Pliatsikas/Ninis are different positions... I mean Pliatsikas needed that time and played the position Rehagel wanted on...I think if were 2-0 up on Lux Ninis should come on, if he hits ethniki/PAO form further than he'll be handy in the playoffs.

Edited by drakos13
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Drakos if your judgement of goalkeepers is anything to go by I really doubt that you were a good keeper as you claim.

I never blamed the 2nd goal on him. If he'd saved that it would have been a great save. But he should have done more for the first goal. Yes Torosidis is more to blame, but just because the clearance was crap doesn't mean a goalkeeper is automatically excused. He also parried at a few standard crosses, not just one. And if they're high balls you move your feet! He's a goalkeeper ffs if he can't handle high balls he shouldn't be in goal!

You've consistently backed Galinovic and Tzorvas and I'm sorry but that proves your clueless about goalkeeping.

@ Nikosvazelas, Tzorvas also played a half against Denmark. He's been shakey in every game he's played. You say he was great against Italy, do you remember a high-ish ball that he tried to catch and spilled it and the ball fell just wide? That would have been an error of major proportions if they'd scored. All it takes is for a keeper to make one mistake and you lose. If a given keeper is making 1 or 2 big mistakes a game then he isn't capable of being a top level keeper. A goalkeeper doesn't have to be spectacular, but he must be solid and consistent. Tzorvas is none of these things. I simply don't think he's good enough, my friend thinks he's talented but too small, my cousin thinks he's inexperienced, and you're saying it's just that he's nervous. Whoever is right, it's clear that he isn't ready for the NT.

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Clueless about goalkeeping? Oh sure...... Right. You are calling Tzorvas horrible after 1 goal on a rebound, I'm not sure you've ever had a shot come at you before. Often what you have are just your reflexes. Tzorvas did correctly, but it fell straight to a player. It happens that you don't always get the parry you want. Its not like he spilled, that shot came out of nowhere it was quite a stretch, you don't always get control of your parry, esp on reflex saves. Personally it is better to tip it over the bar for

Tzorvas is a fine keeper and he will grow into the role. He hasnt had any blunders of note, in the likes of Nikopolidis and Xalkias, for PAO or for Greece. Oh he dropped a ball in his first Ethniki appearance with Italy. Drop him indefinitley, :LOL:

I agree the best thing a keeper can do is not create goals and mess things up. But Tzorvas has not done this yet. You want to see an example of terrible keeping, see Nikopolidis Euro 2008, and also quite a few of his ethniki post 2004.

Also, Tzorvas has been solid for PAO so far. Probably the only Greek keeper out there other than Sifakis and Xalkias. Sifakis is really the only rival to the spot, and he's not any more stable, at least Tzorvas will grow into it.

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I really like this guy Pliatsikas! What a talented individual!

Here's a look: :tup:

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type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="340" height="285"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

Where does he find the time to practice, play football and do concerts?!! :rolleyes:

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Bravo Hellas for winning big yesterday against Latvia puting 5 behind the Latvian net. Great to see Greece march on and keeping the deam alive for a World Cup qualification which is vital for Greek football. Good to see heroes step up and lead the way in very frustrating and difficult times. What a break through night for Gekas.. scoring 4 goals yesterday.

But this does stop the fact that we do have visible problems on the pitch and we need some changes to improve as a unit and play to our full potential. Torosidis ball movement and 'in and out' cutting of the ball were spectacular to see and he must bring this energy to the current very slow moving central midfield we have and not at left back. Spyropoulos should play at left back. Also, having Latvia score two goals at home is unacceptable, and our flaws are exposed.. i`m sure being down 2-1 at half time to a much weaker latvian team did not sit too well for anyone writing in these forums especially conceding two goals at home. Thank god we were able to bounce back and win.. a controversial and very lucky penalty given to us early in the second half did turn the game around playing at home. This completely depleted the latvian team.

Then we had a perfect 'right footed cross' from torosidis playing unorthodox football at left fullback..was clutch what a beautiful cross but ironically from his right foot and not left foot. Unacceptable marking and mental mistakes from Latvia`s defence led to the final 2 goals. The usual horrible Karagounis low struck corner kick and a horrible defensive latvian clearance.. led to a second Karagounis cross which led to the Samaras spectacular bicycle kick finish. Horrible defensive clearance on that goal and mental error from the latvian defender. Finaly, the poor goaltending clearance/punch from the latvian keeper led to 5th greece goal that Gekas made no mistake and finished.

In the World Cup.. in a major tournament though.. playing against world class opposition, Greece can not afford to play inconsistent football and the marge of error is nothing to none. One mistake can end your world cup campaign. And Greece will not have the breaks it saw last night versus a weaker Latvian team. That being said.. lets beat the hell out of Luxembourg on Wednesday and built on this Latvian victory.

Good luck to Hellas ! :gr: :tup: :gr: :tup: :gr: :tup: :gr:

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