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Werder- PAO


athinaios

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Realistically we're only shooting for the UEFA, but we should go to Werder to win, because a tie doesn't really do anything for us at this point. Better go out with a bang, and concentrate on the domestic league.

We'll lose most likely, but let me make a wild guess: we'll repeat the performance against Panionios.... W 1- P 2 :D

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Realistically we're only shooting for the UEFA, but we should go to Werder to win, because a tie doesn't really do anything for us at this point. Better go out with a bang, and concentrate on the domestic league.

We'll lose most likely, but let me make a wild guess: we'll repeat the performance against Panionios.... W 1- P 2 :D

Sorry, but if I was manager I'd put the bus in front of the goal and hope PAO hangs on because a 0-0 would be a tremendous result. I'm sorry to say that when considering a team that scores for fun (Weder) against a team without a defence (PAO) in Germany, then all I can see is an embarassing result.

Prediction:

Weder 5-1 PAO :(

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A draw will give us a chance for the third spot provided that Anorthosi don't take anything from the Inter game. In addition, we need to start rebuilding a good reputation in Europe as well as gaining some momentum before the OSFP game and a defeat won't help in that direction. Of course, even if we fail in Bremen, if Inter win in Cyprus we 'll still have another go at UEFA Cup. I want to see the same lineup - maybe with Salpi instead of Ninis. Very tough game, though - Werder is a strong favourite.

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I too would like to see the same lineup with Salpi in even though Ninis did an excellent job today.

Despite what many think, I am pretty sure we'll go to Werder with the same game plan as against Panionios. Ten Cate seems kind of reckless, and I think I like it B)

You probably already know my prediction, but in case you are new in these parts: 0-4.

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Realistically we're only shooting for the UEFA, but we should go to Werder to win, because a tie doesn't really do anything for us at this point.  Better go out with a bang, and concentrate on the domestic league.

We'll lose most likely, but let me make a wild guess: we'll repeat the performance against Panionios....  W 1- P 2 :D

Sorry, but if I was manager I'd put the bus in front of the goal and hope PAO hangs on because a 0-0 would be a tremendous result. I'm sorry to say that when considering a team that scores for fun (Weder) against a team without a defence (PAO) in Germany, then all I can see is an embarassing result.

Prediction:

Weder 5-1 PAO :(

our defense did look a lot better yesterday.

Maybe Werder will blow us out, i dont think were in store for a 5goals though no way. Id say 3 tops IF it goes sour.

I have a feeling were going to get a better performance from PAO then we expected... and maybe even steal the win if not deserve it...

The players have 90 minutes, to erase all these bad memories and games. Motivation should be easy. Werder are trying to find themselves too.

3 points is possible. We need a great game and luck. Like HTC said, we will need luck to return what it took from us earlier. Cant depend on it, but its possible.

IF, we do win, in which case im sure well all go crazy....

Wed be tied with Anorthosis, unless anorthosis gets points off an in form inter, which i beleive they can, but could be the case.

Then basically, wed need Anorthosis-Werder to tie in Cyprus, assuming we lose in San Siro, and then OAKA vs Anorthosis would be for going to the next round.

Massive game.....

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Yeah, last year Bremen scored seven or eight goals (I can't remember how many or against what team) a few days before they choked at home against Olympiakos. It doesn't mean anything. DUDE comes and tells us how PAO does not have talent and how we'll lose by 4 or 5 goals. I don't read his other posts but I bet he doesn't say that Anorthosis will lose by 4 or 5 to Inter, and doesn't trumpet that Anorthosis doesn't have any better talent than PAO.

Anyway, the 20-man squad was announced today. Ivan (injury), Sousa, Siontis, Petropoulos, Melissis, and Leontiou will stay in Athens.

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Yeah, last year Bremen scored seven or eight goals (I can't remember how many or against what team) a few days before they choked at home against Olympiakos. It doesn't mean anything. DUDE comes and tells us how PAO does not have talent and how we'll lose by 4 or 5 goals. I don't read his other posts but I bet he doesn't say that Anorthosis will lose by 4 or 5 to Inter, and doesn't trumpet that Anorthosis doesn't have any better talent than PAO.

I don't read his other posts but I bet he doesn't say that Anorthosis will lose by 4 or 5 to Inter

Well then maybe you shouldn't judge ;) I thought Ano would lose 4-0 to Inter even though the score finished 1-0.

Having said this, I have more faith in Ano than PAO. Not because Ano has superior individual quality but because the team has a much better balance. Unlike PAO, Ano can defend. When playing against stronger opposition this is essential (not vital but essential!). You mention Olympiakos' shock win in Bremen as an example. In fact, this doesn't support you argument, it goes against it, because Lemonis' Olympiakos team defended well and in numbers.

Anyway, to bring this back to the Ano-PAO discussion, a defensive team needs to also have a goal threat otherwise it's only a matter of time before they fold. Ano has Sosin, Dobrasinovic, and Taher. Are they better in terms of indiv talent than the attacking players PAO has? Probably not, but again it boils down to balance... All 3 of these guys are superb in the air. When you combine that with the amazing crossing abilities of Savio and Bardon then a threat always exists because Ano can defend well for 90 mins then it only takes 1 good delivery in injury time to lead to a goal. Whereas a team like PAO has to work very hard to stay in the game and then to generate the chances to win.

Why? Because PAO has no attacking balance. Where is PAO's attacking threat? Playing from the wings and crossing to a midget (Salpi)? Or relying on a lazy Mantzios to provide a moment of individual creativity for a team that is starved of it? So you see Cyberfish, football is not merely about "talent". It's also about organization and a balance/compatibility among the players. Example: Saviola is more talented than Emile Heskey, but Heskey would offer alot more to the Greece NT than the little Argentinian who'd be lost trying to make something out of Avraam's blind long balls into the box.

On a closing note, it's pretty arrogant of you to be so sarcastic and undermining of my prediction considering that (1) the last time PAO went to Bremen the game finished...? (2) PAO have recently conceded 2 at home to Iraklis and 3 at home to Ergotelis. 3 in Cyprus and 2 in each of the CL home games. So is 5-1 really that inconceivable against an attacking force as potent as Bremen's? If you think so, let's look at more stats, we've already discussed PAO's poor defence, maybe they can outscore Bremen? At home in the Bundesliga (which is vastly superior to the SL) Bremen have scored 17 goals in 6 games. Away in the SL PAO have scored 5 goals in 4 games. <_< Anyway, I pray to God that I'm wrong but all the stats point to a destruction of PAO.

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The way I watch games in the Champions League is like I am explecting yet one more historical win. My team has given me the right to expect those based on its history. All our defining moments in Europe have come against domestic form, and mostly out of the blue. It's in the green DNA. It doesn't always happen, but success in Europe (and especially in Germany) has come often enough to make me a believer.

I love games against teams like Werder and Inter and losing by big margins to them doesn't bother me all that much (as long as its fewer than 7). But I never think of losing before the game starts. That's just the way I am.

BTW, I am a statistics guru, and I keep my own stats of PAO going back to 97 (I had stats going back to 77, but I lost them in one of my moves). Statistics are cute and a lot of fun for me, but somehow in predicting the future they are useless. Right now I have another problem. I can't believe there is a whole day between now and the game.

Now for the game.

I have been busy looking to see what the best lineup will be.

I am pretty sure Simao will play as a CM. He did an excellent job containing this Diego guy last game an he has only good performances overall this season. The player next to him will probably be Gilberto. You can't go wrong with his experience, even though he hasn't blinded anyone with his performances. Mattos is a favorite player of mine and I would not mind seeing him play, but I don't want to go to Bremen with more than two CMs.

On defense, it would be nice to see the same lineup we saw at Nea Smyrni. But I would not be surprised to see Goumas-Sariegi as CBs and Vintra-Moon as the fullbacks.

Karagounis-Gabriel, and Ninis with his performance on Saturday are my favorites to start, even though a Salpi for Ninis swap would not make me upset.

Mantzios had one of the best games I have seen from him against Panionios, and even though he didn't score, he did exactly what you would expect from our CF in a 4-2-3-1 system. He showed poise, strength, and a ton of skill. He will be instrumental in our win at Bremen. If he can hold the ball on his feet as the rest of the AMs deploy, we'll have excellent chances to win.

The fact that Sousa is not even in the 20 makes me suspect that Ten Cate has made up his mind that he can't help.

Lastly, I don't want to forget about our GK. I watched the game against Panionios again. I was very disappointed to see so many Galinovic gaffes. He was very indecisive in claiming the ball in his vicinity, and worst for me, he spilled the ball towards the middle of the box. I would favor a permanent switch to Tzorvas beginning with the Bremen game. Tzorvas is not perfect, but I like how he smothers the ball or deflects it way out of danger.

Now if Galinovic plays and saves the 5 certain goals I won't complain. I'll go out and buy a poster of him :P

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Both of our keepers have good reflexes, but they lack the best judgment when they need to leave their post to come out.

Guys, we're having a discussion here even if we disagree. I'm sure no one wants to offend others, so let's give each other the benefit of the doubt since the written speech doesn't carry the tone of voice, inflection, etc.

Thanks for the input. :tup:

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well, if PAO wins this, Anorthosis disaster, Werder slip, are as good as totally erased. Even Ergotelis, will be long forgotten with new confidence and optimism. The win has a big payoff, and if PAO wins the next 2 games, it will be like a new beginning for us, that can help acheive what we feel is lost already. Two biggest games of the year, starts in Germany.

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I don't speak German but here is one of Bremen's forum. The guys there read Phantis it seems http://forum.werder.de/showthread.php?t=2126 It's probably Krousewitz :D

Anyway, here is the uefa review of the game, and the detailed press kit that tells us that PAO has committed more fouls than any other team this year (63) - which I think it's good, and that two players have participated in every contest (Vintra, Salpi).

UEFA competitions appearances: Goumas has 72, Karagounis has 78 and Gilberto 53.

CL all time appearances: Gilberto 47 (4 goals), Karagounis 41 (3 goals), Goumas 40 (3 goals). next in CL appearances is Vintra with 12.

For Bremen, just about he entire team has CL appearances in the double digits. Pissaro has the most appearances: 54 and has scored 15 goals.

Werder's heaviest defeat was 7-2 at the feet of Olympique Lyonnais in 2005. Heaviest home defeat for Brement 0-5 (Porto in 1994).

Panathinaikos' 10-year record:

2007/08: UEFA Cup – Round of 32

2006/07: UEFA Cup – Round of 32

2005/06: UEFA Champions League – group stage

2004/05: UEFA Cup – Round of 32 (having transferred from the UEFA Champions League group stage)

2003/04: UEFA Cup – third round (having transferred from the UEFA Champions League group stage)

2002/03: UEFA Cup – quarter-finals

2001/02: UEFA Champions League – quarter-finals

2000/01: UEFA Champions League – second group stage

1999/00: UEFA Cup – third round

1998/99: UEFA Champions League – group stage

Bremen's 10-year record:

2007/08: UEFA Cup – Round of 16 (having transferred from UEFA Champions League group stage)

2006/07: UEFA Cup – semi-finals (having transferred from UEFA Champions League group stage)

2005/06: UEFA Champions League – first knockout round

2004/05: UEFA Champions League – first knockout round

2003/04: UEFA Intertoto Cup – semi-finals

2002/03: UEFA Cup – second round

2001/02: UEFA Intertoto Cup – third round

2000/01: UEFA Cup – third round

1999/00: UEFA Cup – quarter-finals

1998/99: UEFA Cup – second round (having qualified as UEFA Intertoto Cup winners)

Net reported about 700 Panathinaikos fans will travel to Germany. Obviosly some Greeks in Germany will buy tickets, so about 1000 PAO fans should be in the stadium.

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