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Ten Cate: GO BYE BYE


Clover22

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I am absolutely 100% certain that if this guy leaves as soon as freaking possible, all the better, we will NOT suffer without a guy who doesn't know step 1: which players to field. You know when Peseiro left I thought Donis with the little experience he has, would have been better. And he would have! They can find someone available who knows what they're doing. Hello, uefa Cup!

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If I were advising TK, I'd tell him this is the moment to tell everyone what he's trying to do. Seriously and honestly. And, answer a couple questions, like:

Who was mainly responsible of making up the roster of players.

Does he need time & how much to build a team with consistency and decent play?

We don't need to hear any more BS. I think part of the failures of the 2,897 coaches that came and left in the last few years has been the lack of a clear long-term planning and strategy.

I've said the problem with this club has been systemic, not just people. I hoped that the new owners/managers would change this. I know the pressure to succeed right away is huge, but you can't built anything unless the foundations are sound and strong!

I'm not asking for TK's oust now. I want a clear statement of his mission, his goal in 1 year, and in 4 years.... and how he's going to get there. I also want to know who's in charge so we can hold him accountable.

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If you sack him now, your team goes to ruin. He is an excellent coach. Are you going to blame him for the autogoal? Or the poor marking? I dont think so. He doesnt play. It seems to me that they counter attacked quite well and once the auto goal was in PAO were so surprised that they let their guard down for #2.

What I am saying is, I dont think the tactics were the issue here.

But as an AEK fan... please sack him... then we have to worry about one less team....

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he better start to field a consistant team or im on the firing bamdwagon

what is Ivansich doing on the bench??? Where is Ninis???

we all felt that we upgraded this offseason, with no results...

If we dont WIN vs Bremen, its all over boys, no hope, maybe no uefa cup!!!

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I am absolutely 100% certain that if this guy leaves as soon as freaking possible, all the better, we will NOT suffer without a guy who doesn't know step 1: which players to field. You know when Peseiro left I thought Donis with the little experience he has, would have been better. And he would have! They can find someone available who knows what they're doing. Hello, uefa Cup!

So HTC is to blame because he has an inept squad? He can't lead this "omadara" to European glory so he must be sacked right? If Donis had signed instead of HTC and PAO were performing like Donis' team now what would you be saying?

Congratulations on the worst post of the century so far.

These views epitomize the cancer of Greek football.

LONG LIVE THE REIGN OF HENK TEN CATE!!!!!!!

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I have to agree with dude on this one. This has to be the most untimely and hasty thread opening of all time. Not even an issue at this point. And I agree with Athinaios - in fact, I already said that elsewhere in this forum: we need to know what the plan is. The sooner the better.

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So HTC is to blame because he has an inept squad? He can't lead this "omadara" to European glory so he must be sacked right? If Donis had signed instead of HTC and PAO were performing like Donis' team now what would you be saying?

Congratulations on the worst post of the century so far.

These views epitomize the cancer of Greek football.

LONG LIVE THE REIGN OF HENK TEN CATE!!!!!!!

DUDE is Right! :nw:

HTC is a great coach. If the guy cant get the team going - who the hell can? I think HTC has had some big flaws though - Vyntra and Sareigui instead of Nilsson and Simao/Melissis - these are just mistakes, that should never be made.

Also Lazaros instead of Ivan was a retarted decision. Ivan charactarizes whats the only things that are good and productive about this PAO, and even if he doesnt have agreat game (which isnt that common) he will still offer great free kicks. Clayton, Karagkounis blow ass at freekicks. Free kicks are the lucky breaks for PAO when hes on the field. If were going to play like s%$#!- we might as well increase our chances of scoring on a freekick no?

The problem is the MANAGEMENT. YES, it is AGAIN their fault. They came in cocky, with a lot of money, no idea how to spend it, and thought they could blow off players and act big and not submit to their wage demands. There is very much, somebody who is responsible for the atrocious team set before HTC.

They are the MORONS who blew this season before it even began! How they can "try" to sign CB's for 3 MONTHS and not land one is pathetic. How you can sent away Morris, and not buy a single replacement is pathetic. Honestly, I never thought we would be regretting sending Morris away. I think if the management has half a brain, they will recall the player IMMIDIATELY. The defense is in an EMERGENCY STAE thanks to the negligence and s%$#! talk of geniuses like Antoniou, and psoniares illithious like Nikos Pateras.

3 million a year on Gilberto a CM in a posisiton that was our STRONGEST position on the team depthwise- Mattos, Simao, Tziolis - We didnt even NEED a DM (Simao IS very much adequate in that position Btw and when he has played DM this season he has been better than Gilberto even)

Gabriel - honest question, what was the point of signing this player? Hes not quite an RM, hes atrocious at defending as an RB...... :blink: now that we have Bryce Moon who is a better version of a positionally challenged player, Gabirel is basically obsolete. Not to mention we also have Ninis and Salpiggidis Karagkounis and Clayton who can play that same wing position.

Sousa - he came WAY overpiced, hes strong, point forward, I dont mind him. but PAE got taken for a ride and overpaid him.

Melissis - 2 million Euros - for a backup player?????? Eiste Kala;;;

and NOTHING for Givet!

They sent idiots to Latin America, Rocha sadly was a good coach 10 years ago- never mind hes been coaching 8 year olds the last 10 years....

Velic was one of the worst people in the technical field, totally incompetent.....then we sent him to Latin America..WHY!?! WHY NOT REPALCE YOUR IDIOTS!

The only things did correct this transfer season:

Ivanschitz reknewal (me to zori of course)

Mattos staying

Clayton

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If anyone bothered to read my posts during the last few years, I was NEVER in favor of firing the coaches we had in the last 10 YEARS except Schum. I was always the first one to come out and post about this problem: you can't build a team that way. But Ten Cate is making amateurish mistakes and for those of you who think he's a "great coach" what did he do to prove it? Because he was an assistant at Barca? What did he do at Ajax? He had a chance to remedy this problem against Anorthosis and he went right ahead and did the same thing. So sit back and enjoy the rest of the season.

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DUDE if you think this squad is "inept" then maybe you should go get yourself checked out. LONG LIVE THE REIGN OF DUDE (and his boneheaded opinions)

By CL standards this squad is indeed inept. With the exception of Ivan who is a good player, and Gilberto who brings a wealth of experience, who else does this team have that can compete consistently at the top level? Cleyton is good and Karagounis is still fairly good too, while Ninis is a hot prospect but there's no one else. I'm not saying they're all rubbish, Mattos is decent and Goumas is average, but overall this squad is inept. Sarriegui? Lazaro? Souza? The team has no wingers, no goal scorers and no dekari. On the Anorthosi-PAO topic I said that PAO need numerous players, not just 1 or 2 at centre-back as many here are suggesting. Everyone is blaming PAO's defence for the defeat, how about PAO as an attacking force? The team dominated possession against both Ano and Inter and failed to generate any chances (except Cleyton's shot against Inter and Moon's deflected shot). When did they manage to breach the backline of either team even once? This is because the players aren't good enough to do this. Even the good players are misused, i.e. Ivan is NOT a left winger. He plays there though because who else can be used in that position? Lazaro? This squad is inept.

PAO need, at the very least:

- Sosin (Anorthosi) = A great target man and I'm sure he would combine well with Salpi. He also scores goals for fun, at any level. He's also got 2 goals in 2 caps for Poland. For 2m or 3m Euro you can't go wrong.

Tavlaridis (St Ettiene) = The ideal centre-back would have been Kyrgiakos but Tzigger is an arsehole for burning those bridges. PAO have to look elsewhere and unfortunately unless PAO go for a Greek I can't see a top centre-back signing. The very average Givet as a target pretty much highlights that. So someone like Tavlaridis would be great. He's a bit flat footed and a hot-head but his European experience would solidify the central defensive position. I don't know how much he'd be available for but Luisao (Benfica) and Cleber (CSKA) would also be great targets. Whoever is signed, we all know that PAO is inept in that position and players are needed.

Seitaridis (Atletico) = He isn't having a great time there and could be tempted back for a cut price. If he could stay fit he'd end PAO's right full back problems.

Aloneftis (Omonoia) = Apparently he had offers from other Bundesliga clubs but decided to return to Cyprus because he's just had a little girl and wanted her to grow up in his home environment, i.e. llearn Greek, etc. Hence, I'm sure PAO could prize him away. He's very fast, works hard, is a traditional left winger (that PAO lacks), and he gets goals. PAO NEED this sort of player, someone who'll hug the touchline and strecth defences. When PAO has to defend he's a counter-attacking outlet and when PAO has to break a defensive team down he gets into great positions. I'm a HUGE fan and his fantastic season at Larissa shows he has the ability to destroy any given team in the SL on his day.

D'Alessandro (Internacional) = This sort of player is VITAL! Although Ivan is a very good player he doesn't quite have the world-class dribbling and creative ability to unlock a defence by dribbling past 3 players and shooting into the top corner. D'Alessandro is that sort of player. Ever since Eki Gonzalez lost his form due to injuries PAO hasn't had this sort of player. Remember what Eki did to Arsenal and Rosenberg? That's what this guy would offer. He's still only 27 and the fact that he's in Brazil means he could be attracted to the club.

These 5 or 6 players would cost quite a lot of money collectively altough not an astronomical amount, and all are realistic targets. Imagine PAO were travelling to Bremen looking like this:

-------------------------------------------Galinovic------------------------------------------

Seitaridis--------------------Luisao--------------------Tavlaridis-------------Spyropolous

----------------------------Mattos-----------Glberto--------Ivanschitz---------------------

D'Alessandro------------------------------Sosin-----------------------------------Aloneftis

That's ALOT more like it. This isn't a CL winning team, but they are solid enough defensively and creative enough going forward to cause anyone problems. AND that would allow young players like Moon and Ninis to develop without the pressure of too much expectation on their shoulders. It would also leave players like Salpi, Goumas, Ninis, Cleyton, Moon, Karagounis, etc on the bench, so it would be a pretty deep squad in terms of quality, enabling a healty rotation system in the SL to keep players fresh. Now if HTC had this squad and wasn't performing i could understand why you'd be calling for his head. As things stand however his squad is nothing special in the SL and downright inept by CL standards.

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DUDE if you think this squad is "inept" then maybe you should go get yourself checked out. LONG LIVE THE REIGN OF DUDE (and his boneheaded opinions)

Name one defensive line in PAO's last 10 years worse than this one. Honestly I cant. This one tops it......I cant remember a season where PAO has had without even contest the worst defense out of the big 3, and some other clubs like PAOK are showing to be better in the back. We had a massive budget this season, and were an open house in the back.

Tell me, what was great about our signings telika;

Gabriel :LOL: useless signing, who can occasionally cross and make overlapping runs from the right side.

Sousa....not impacting a whole lot

Rukavina....... oh yeah he dribled that one game vs Panthrakikos never seen him since

Melissis - probably good, but not making the team. 2 million euro backup

Clayton, ivan mattos - the only good signigns.

HTC was not perfect, but why the hell dont you look at the management , who are directly responsible for all the useless transfer season...... ?

There was no way any coach was going to go very far with this team. a team that has a defense that bad is going to find itself struggling in nearly every single game of the season. League and Europe - Im not kidding.

Honestly, if the management had done something about the defensive issue (and 3 months IS time, no excuses) we would be flying about PAO. I dont think with a solid/quality back line, we would have lost in Cyprus, or with AEK, and at least had a much better shot at equalizing or even beating Inter.

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^ Could not agree more,

Greek fans have to be more patient. The teams need to learn how to build a team. Chemistry is the most important thing in football. Look at how ferguson builds a team for example. Imo Giggs and Scholes arent that skilled, but no one can say they arent good players. Ferguson has kept Scholes, Giggs and Neville at man United for ever, and built of them. You have to have a core group of guys where you stick too who are hard working, loyal players, and you add some talent to that. Manchester is the perfect example. Ferguson is smart. Why do you think teams like Real Madrid have been failers during their billion euro shopping spree? They didnt build a team! They just threw a bunch of talent together and expected it to work. Imo thats why the Prem does better then the rest these days. Its the same problem for OLympiakos. They just throwplayers togther and expect it to work. Fans have to be patient. Htc shouldnt be going anywhere.

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every team can have bad games. i mentioned before the ano game that luck plays a vital role in any matchup.

the sariegui own goal went in and i knew the game was over. i can sort of understand an own goal under pressure but THAT was embarrassing.

This same team went into harilaou where no team in the past 3 years looked good in and played an excellent match. 9 of the same 11 players that were on against ano.

In cyprus everything went wrong.

My only problem with HTC is playing Ninis. 18 year old gaining cl experience is vital.

no one said this team is the greatest ever. but they are not as bad as everyone says.

Patience and faith.

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If anyone bothered to read my posts during the last few years, I was NEVER in favor of firing the coaches we had in the last 10 YEARS except Schum. I was always the first one to come out and post about this problem: you can't build a team that way. But Ten Cate is making amateurish mistakes and for those of you who think he's a "great coach" what did he do to prove it? Because he was an assistant at Barca? What did he do at Ajax? He had a chance to remedy this problem against Anorthosis and he went right ahead and did the same thing. So sit back and enjoy the rest of the season.

are you kidding me???

10C lost the champion for one goal with ajax... when he left from barca i omada pigene kata diaolou.. and its a very big deal to be assistance to barca, chelsea

polloi tha ithelan ton 10C gia proponiti... let the guy do his job..

PS. this topic is useless..

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10C lost the champion for one goal with ajax... when he left from barca i omada pigene kata diaolou.. and its a very big deal to be assistance to barca, chelsea

Exactly. On top of that, Avraam Grant is strictly a manager, he's renowned for picking the team, making tactical decisions and substitutions, dealing with the players' personal probs, etc. BUT he doesn't coach/train the team. So HTC was brought in by Grant to coach the Chelsea team. When Mourinho left Chelsea were further behind Man Utd than they were by the end of the season. Hence, HTC's players, in effect, won the Premier league. They also made the CL final, a game in which they dominated, particularly in the 2nd half, through both physical and technical superiority. So HTC has not only worked with the best players in the world in his rich career but he's also adaptable as a coach, able to improve teams technically and physically. If PAO keep HTC for a few years and support him by bringing in the right players, he is capable of giving us the best Greek team we've had since PAO made the European Cup final.
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... The ideal centre-back would have been Kyrgiakos but Tzigger is an arsehole for burning those bridges. ...

I have said before that Kyriakos would have been a good signing, but there is no reason to keep mentioning Tziger as the reason for burning bridges.

Kyriakos wanted to leave for abroad and negotiated his own move. Panathinaikos claimed that he was the product of the academies and therefore he could not transfer without PAO being compensated. I don't know all the details but after a couple of years in courts Kyriakos had to pay PAO compensation. I think Kyriakos is the one who burned his bridges, and it came back to bite him. This season he waited on the block for a big team to make an offer, but no one would pay him the money he asked for. Panathinaikos was among those who were not interested in making him rich after the antics he pulled last time with the transfer. His move to AEK was the best he could find.

There are plenty of better stoppers than Kyriakos. He is good, but I would not call him "ideal". Maybe we can put this issue to rest.

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luisao? isnt he a forward?

You're confusing him with Luizao (a Brazilian striker). This guy is a centre-back and a superb one at that. He's big and strong and can even play football.

@ Cyberfish: I disagree re: Kyrgiakos' ability. Imo he's one of Europe's best defenders. Aerially unbeatable, physically unplayable, fantastic at pressing, and superb in the tackle. The only limitations he has are his poor ball distribution skills and his hot-head, apart from that I can't fault him. I love him, def my favourite player so imo he'd be the ideal signing.

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