Nikitas Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 ^nonsense. the 1-0 was mostly because of him. first he stumbled when trying to stop benzema and after that he came to late to stop ronaldo from scoring. for me he was one of the worst dortmund players today. they should have scored more also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akritis_1944 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Probably true, but generally both Sokratis and Manolas for so-called World class defenders do make some poor plays. They need to improve their concentration. They are both supreme athletes but they are prone to basic giveaways and concentration lapses. We see it too regularly for the NT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikitas Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 i understand what you mean greekfreak and i know thats dortmunds playstyle but as the new "abwehrchef" or leader in the back he should have done better. also i see to much miscommunication between the defenders when they play the offside trap. sometimes sokratis sets it and bartra or ginter dont use it. same go's for manolas , he also leader in the back for roma. i know dortmund has sort of a new team and coach and are still building. they will grow every match. and maybe i am a bit to harsch but thats how i see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 On 28/09/2016 at 3:55 PM, Akritis_1944 said: Probably true, but generally both Sokratis and Manolas for so-called World class defenders do make some poor plays. They need to improve their concentration. They are both supreme athletes but they are prone to basic giveaways and concentration lapses. We see it too regularly for the NT. There is a reason bayern picked up hummels and not sokratis, or why wenger got mustafi instead of manolas and why mourinho picked up bailli Sokratis and manolas are good defenders but they are not first tier talents. Between them, the only thing that's world class is manolas pace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akritis_1944 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 You ultimately might be right, but I rate both of them as good as good as, if not better than the players you mention. I think we are all disappointed at the inconsistency of both of them primarily for the Ethniki. They should be brick walls against the teams we've faced over the last 12 months but they clearly have been anything but and probably been our worst players. I think for both Sokratis and Manolas this season is where they need to lift their game to world class levels. Also I think they are at different stages in their careers. Like Pana97 said, the English commentators were singing Sokratis praises against Real. It's not like he was playing against Ingolstadt in the German cup. This was against the reigning Champions League winners and he was very good in my opinion. Manolas on the other hand has clearly been distracted at the hype of a big move and he's been erratic. I personally think he needs a new challenge to a bigger club in a stronger league where he's surrounded by better players. That would show good he really is in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akritis_1944 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I thjnk we're all guessing here but Manolas was definitely high if not THE priority on Wenger's transfer list (also for Conte at Chelsea) but like aek66 says they wanted him on the cheap and with thaf 50% sale clause, Roma was never going to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgelaz Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) there aren't that many defenders better than manolas and sokratis, that's for sure. but obvious one's are = chiellini, ramos, hummels, tiago silva, boatang there's a reason why these guys are known world wide and our boys not as many. you can only count on one hand that has a duo equivalent or better than our duo, namely = italy and germany Edited October 2, 2016 by georgelaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 ^^ On 30/09/2016 at 10:15 PM, aek66 said: i want to say the reason that wenger got mustafi is because wenger failed to get manolas at a discount price. It could be that wenger rated mustafi higher If roma's demands were what was been reported then they are ridicules to say the least, especially for manolas. If that's the case, then wenger did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 11 minutes ago, ThrylosG7 said: Bonnucci , Thiago Silva , Boateng , Chiellini , Pique , Ramos , Hummels , - are the cream of the crop Then you have the next level players - Like Pepe , Otamendi mangala ,Vertonghen, Koscielny , Barzagli , probably another 4 or 5 I have forgotten.. The question is do Sokratis and Manolas belong in the second group - no way re they in that first group... 1st tier) You are missing varane. He joins that elite group with ramos, hummels, bonucci and chiellini. I would take any of these guys over boateng as he makes silly decisions but he is still part of this group. Thiago silva has regressed, he is no longer part of that elite. 2nd tier)Pepe, barzali, godin, otamendi, bailli, alderwield etc 3rd tier) manolas, sokratis, mangala etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I forgot pique, he is still part of that elite. You can also argue that godin is part of this group as well, simeoni's tactics protect him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 On 2016-09-30 at 6:48 AM, val said: There is a reason bayern picked up hummels and not sokratis, or why wenger got mustafi instead of manolas and why mourinho picked up bailli Sokratis and manolas are good defenders but they are not first tier talents. Between them, the only thing that's world class is manolas pace It is well understood that Manolas and Sokratis are first tier, world class. Ask anyone in Italy and Manolas is in the same conversation as the 3 Juventus CBs. General consensus in Bundesliga is that Sokratis right behind Hummels and Boateng, very hard to argue otherwise. He is on their level there is no doubt and the reason Bayern got Hummels over Sokratis is because Hummels is a German with pedigree and the signing is perceived as more prestigious than signing the Greek. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 On 2016-10-01 at 11:26 PM, ThrylosG7 said: Bonnucci , Thiago Silva , Boateng , Chiellini , Pique , Ramos , Hummels , - are the cream of the crop Then you have the next level players - Like Pepe , Otamendi mangala ,Vertonghen, Koscielny , Barzagli , probably another 4 or 5 I have forgotten.. The question is do Sokratis and Manolas belong in the second group - no way re they in that first group... Manolas and Sokratis are better than any player you named in that second group. On top of that you say there are probably 4 or 5 you forgot...Ludicrous. They are solidly in the cream of the crop. It`s time to accept this and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 On 2016-10-01 at 11:37 PM, val said: ^^ It could be that wenger rated mustafi higher If roma's demands were what was been reported then they are ridicules to say the least, especially for manolas. If that's the case, then wenger did the right thing. Wenger is known not to overspend on players. If he felt that Manolas price was more than he was willing to spend and Mustafi, albeit a lesser player but with upside, came at a better price. then he would go for the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) On 2016-10-01 at 11:01 PM, georgelaz said: there aren't that many defenders better than manolas and sokratis, that's for sure. but obvious one's are = chiellini, ramos, hummels, tiago silva, boatang there's a reason why these guys are known world wide and our boys not as many. you can only count on one hand that has a duo equivalent or better than our duo, namely = italy and Germany I am not saying that our boys are better than the players mentioned above, albeit not far behind and arguably in the same class. What I will say is, referring to your point about these players` notoriety world wide is that they all grew up in massive footballing nations with top class academies which gave them the opportunity to stand out and the exposure to be scouted by top clubs. Our poor guys started at Apollon Petalidiou and Pannaxiakos before going to AEK in a Greek Super League with already little credibility in developing talent. I do not want to make this a topic about nationality, but there is a vivid contrast in the exposure our top talents get compared to that of players from Germany, Spain, Brazil, Italy, etc. Edited October 3, 2016 by Argy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 26 minutes ago, Argy said: It is well understood that Manolas and Sokratis are first tier, world class. Ask anyone in Italy and Manolas is in the same conversation as the 3 Juventus CBs. General consensus in Bundesliga is that Sokratis right behind Hummels and Boateng, very hard to argue otherwise. He is on their level there is no doubt and the reason Bayern got Hummels over Sokratis is because Hummels is a German with pedigree and the signing is perceived as more prestigious than signing the Greek. When you say "ask anyone" just this alone deters readers. State you opinion and not what you have read in a paper or website. Your last comment about bayern and hummels gave me a migraine. Like bayern care about what other perceive. They want to win so they go and get the best players. Hummels is the best defender in that league and it's not even close. Not only that unlike sokratis, hummels is also a footballer. What does this mean? Well he has a good first touch and can distribute the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Fair enough about the ask anyone, but point remains. That is my opinion and it is evidently a widely shared one. I am not saying that Hummels went to Bayern over Sokratis solely because he is German or because it is a more prestigious transfer, but even if they were carbon copies of each other, Hummels is the sexier transfer for Bayern in Germany. Edited October 3, 2016 by Argy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgelaz Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 hummels is sexy as F***, no homo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 ^^And they can distribute the ball. When the opposition sees defenders that can neither control the ball nor pass out of defense, they press them knowing they will win the ball back. But even if you would not bring this into the equation, hummels defends better. Sokratis and manolas struggle with their concentration and sometimes their positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) Sokratis was BVB`s best defender last season. Hummels being better overall can be thoroughly argued, but this is no clear cut case. BVB is an elite club, right outside the group of the Bayerns, Reals and Barcelonas, etc. which have a squad of 11 + world class players. An elite club, on their end, has a few world class players surrounded by elites. Dortmund has three world class, one in each third of the field: Aubameyang, Reus and Sokratis. Then they have about 6 or 7 elite players complementing them. Edited October 4, 2016 by Argy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikitas Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 he will be out for around 2 or 3 weeks. means he most likely will be ready for bosnia's match wich will be in around 5 weeks. "muscle injury to the adductor area". https://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sport.de%2Fnews%2Fne2458902%2Fbitter-dortmund-wochenlang-ohne-sokratis%2F https://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fussball.news%2Foffenbar-mehrere-wochen-pause-fuer-sokratis-reus-nimmt-mannschaftstraining-auf%2F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikitas Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 today i read that he recovered from his injury and travelled to lisbon with dortmund , but its unsure if he will start this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brklyngrk Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 He is starting and is the team captain for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikod Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 He was the only member of Dortmund's defense to play the full 90. Team won 2-1. Anyone know how he played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikitas Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 ^defending i thought he was solid but on the ball he was poor. 3 occassions were very dangerous where he lost the ball or gave a bad pass and sporting almost scored 2 times from that ball loss. to bad thats not uncommen with sokratis , looks like a concentration problem and tuchel and he should work on that even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I agree with Nikitas assessment, a couple of lapses when distributing the ball. Other than that he was top class as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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