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NikosVazelas Superleague.


NikosVazelas

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Ive been doing some thinking recently and started looking around other leagues and how they play out.

Its Obvious that AEK OLY and PAO are tough to pass in this spuerleague system. but what i was thinking to improve our league is adopting a system somewhat like the one in the SPL ( Scottish Premier League)

In Scotland, there are 12 teams. They each play against eachother 3 times per season and after the 33 games the league is split up into two seperate categories.

The first 6 teams and the last 6 teams. And they each play eachother one final time to complete the schedule.

Lets take this and break it down.

First off, lets say we are to relegate teams and end up with 12.

we would do so by say, playing out a season relegating the three teams that end last. thats 13 teams... then take the following 3 teams and the first place team of B division and make them play a playoff series with the winner being in the super league and the other 3 falling down. So there, we have 12 teams.

Lets hypothesize and say those teams are the following.

Pao,Oly,Aek, Aris, Larisa, Asteras Tripolis, Paok, Panionios, Xanthi, Iraklis,Ofi, Pas Giannena

All this is hypothetical but rather important to continue my argument.

so like now, at the beginning of the season a draw would be made and a schedule will be completed. each team plays eachother 3 times. again by draw, Home field advantage would be delegated.

So after this draw, lets take for example PAO. they have 11 teams to face. 3 times each. lets say, after the draw, Pao are forced to play at home against oly once and twice at karaiskaki. Against AEK, we will play two home games and one game at OAKA. etc etc.. all this is done by draw.

After the 33 game schedule, lets say the standing are the following.

PAo

Oly

Aek

Aris

LArisa

PAok

Pas Giannena

Asteras Tripolis

Ofi

Iraklis

Xanthi

Panionio

Again all this is hypothetical. so we take the first six teams put them in a group and the last six teams and put them in a group.

PAO OLY AEK ARIS LARISA PAOK in one group

PAS GIANNENA, ASTERAS, OFI, IRAKLIS, Xanthi, PANIONIOS in the other

PAO OLY AEK ARIS LARISA and PAOK each face eachother once and the other six all face eachother once.

SO pao in the regular season played oly twice in karaiskaki and once at home against oly. so the final game will be played at Leoforos. Agaisnt AEK we played twice at home and once at OAKA in the regular season, so this game will be played in OAKA. And so on and so forth.

This will happen with everyother team. playing there adversaries etc til the end of the season which will be 38 games.

What this does is gives hope for teams in the bottom to play for their right to avoid relegation and teams in the first six to play for UEfa or CL.

Again with the previous example, Pao at the end of the 33 game schedule is 2 points behind OLY. however because they played twice at karaiskaki, there is a chance for oly to lose points at leoforos and for pao to gain the advantage.

this example goes for teams in thhird place as much as it does for teams fighting relegation.

If the last three teams are all one point behind eachother respectively, but the last place teams faces the follwoing two teams ahead of them at home, it gives them a chance to avoid relegation by playing thos teams and not having to lose against pao or oly in the final match of the season to stay up.

And at the end of the 38 games, you would have the first few teams in Europe and the LAST team being relegated. Sort of like now, where there will be a playoff but without playing two EXTRA games. This way everyone plays the same number of games and has equal chances to finish first or avoid relegation.

I see the SPL in scotland and every year, Celtic vs Rangers is obviously the big Derby. two years ago, Rangers had lost twice to celtic in the regular season and won once and were two points behind celtic at the beginning of this FOURTH round.

The last game was played at IBROX and Rangers won that game. They went on to win the championship. Not to mention the extra 8 games per season for every team and the revenue that would provide, but i think, undoubtedly, the quality will rise as with more revenue, teams in the Superleague will have to do everything to avoid being relegated.

Truth is right now, with all these teams, you have teams that will never progress as they know they will lose that ultimate game against oly or paqo in the end and be relegated. but now, say a team like Iraklis has the luck to play Oly twice in thessaloniki and pao as well, if they could win those game they could really advance and make an effort for finishing in the first 6.

Either way with this playoff system, the top three will be PAO OLY AEK in whatever order, but at least, adopting this syatem will give us more games and more revenue.

Think about it this way. If during the regular season, PAOK and IRAKLIS play two home games agaisnt oly and pao by luck of the draw, thats 2 games more with 30k people more per game. At least an average of lets say 15 EU per ticket, u r talkin about 9 million dollars of ticket sales. In the long run, this can help the littler teams progress and maybe even make an impact.

Something to think about.

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NikosVazelas for president :tup:

I like the idea. I specifically like the 12-team league. Even though this year there is a bit more parity, there are always two to four teams that everyone rolls over. I would love to see more games played among the top teams. A system that would pair the best teams in a playoff scenario on level ground would be awesome.

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It is not that the players are crap, it is the fact they have to play under crap conditions.

Half the stadiums in the SuperLeague are not approved by FIFA. There are better grass field in my community that are open to the public for soccer than you can find in Greece's first division.

There is no consistency in terms of facilities to train and perform in.

The stadiums are not user friendly. Most of the world, when you go to a soccer game, you will see parents with kids. In Greece that is seldom the case because you got yahoo hooligans that act like a bunch of .........

The officiating is subpar.

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Well i wasnt talkin about the quality of facilities and training grounds. Either way, with this hypothetical system or the current one, nothing is different on the field.

What this system offers is the possibility for the smaller teams to advance by making money on multiple home games against the more popular clubs.

Take for example Asteras Tripolis. They beat AEK Oly and PAo at home this season and the buzz around the team is extremely high.

Imagine a team like say for example.... Kalamaria. lets say hypothetically they play two home games a year against PAOK, Oly and AEK. thats 3 home games more where attandance isnt 1750. This season, the season attendance for the games excluding PAOK , ARIS and oly is 1350. with oly they had 22000 and with paok they had 19000. if u add a couple of games more.. that totals about 40000 tickets more sold every year. we are talkin about 4 or 5 million dollars more every season of income. If u want to take a percentage from every team from that money, like a 8 or 9 % for transfers and a 8 or 9 % for youth developpement, that can be worked in. But the way our superleageu system works now, it is nearly impossible for teams to progress. Especially when bigger teams win games on paper agaisnt little teams as punishment for those little teams playing players that the league approved in the first place.

Aside from developpement etc, id liek your thoughts on the actual system discussed. etc.

thank you.

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i want 20 teams in SL cuz i want more teams from "perifereia" but i like your idea.. the only thing SL with 12 teams its kinda... dont know... liges omades na to po.. kai oi pio polles tha einai apo athina..

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fetos exo athina. its normal but i think over times, teams like larisa, giannena asteras, xanthi ofi etc would improve with the income etc...

i hope we can see diagora rodou soon!!! :tup:
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My understanding is that Rodos is close to getting up there. prob B ethniki next season and from there on anything can happen.

I like the 12 team league with one team being automatically relegated and the 2nd to last team maybe playing a playoff against the 2nd place team from B ethniki.

This will make it more important to be a good team, etc....

i think the most important of all is that smaller teams will play a possible home games against teams like pao oly and aek.. which means 2 or 3 more full houses..

a teams like larisa, whos stadium hold 13k would mean 26 or 39k more tickets sold every year... that can mean approx anywhere from 4 to 8 million euros more in ticket sales every season.

Its hard to compete in europe when u have only 15 home games a season and most of those against teams like ergotelis, levadia and veria.

U need to have smaller teams play against teams like pao oly and aek more often.

even a team like veria, whos stadium holds 4k. they average 2200 this season but the games against oly aek and oly were sellouts.

if they hypothetically played those extra 3 games.. thats 13000 tickets more sold in one season.

not to mention that there is only one team dropping down for sure.... so the position in the standings isnt as negative as it is now. but 13k tickets at 15 euros (which is really low for games against pao and oly) is close to 2 million dollars. not to mention every frappe sold in the stadium... :)

im just saying its more beneficial for the teams financial survival over a longer period of time.

As for the money being used in the right way, i guess teams wont have much of a choice to use it properly.

For example, in a 12 team league, one team drops. say hypothetically that team is veria.

Veria will drop down to b league and have to finish first the following year in order to get back up to the superleague.

This will somehow force most of the teams in b and g ethniki to have younger more fit players with potential instead of 33 or 34 year old playing for them., this will also give more exposure to the younger player as they are tryin to take their team into the superleague.

With all the competition of tryin to make it into the Superleague, Teams and managers will be forced to use the money wisely, say in youth developpement, transfers or whatever, in order to try their best to make it to the top.

itll be 3 times harder for teams to make it into the superleague and itll attract an interest for the fans as they know support and teams backing will give more money to the owners who can then try and do their best in transfer periods etc. Now most owners are content in playing their cards and hoping their teams squeak out a few 3-2 or 2-1 victories to get them in the top 3 at the end of the season and jump into superleague. and once they get there, they get slaughtered or are forced to play 5-5-0 systems not to conceed goals and put on a really crappy show.

A team in B ethniki can scrape together deals for say, loans of young,bright stars from the bigger teams, which will help improve those players etc.

For example, lets say that was the case this season. and only one team would come up to a 12 team league. A team liek Ionikos or panserraiakos could of ask for players on loan from teams like AEK or Oly or PAO.

During the jan transfer window, we could of seen players liek Darlas, Matsoukas, Pavlis, Dimoutsos, Tsigkas,Mitroglou being loaned out to say ionikos or kallithea or whatever team is close to the top. that would definately improve teams and would be sort of `star` player coming to the B league.

Imagine what kind of stir it would make for a team like Panserraiakos or Ionikos if a player like dimoutso or pavlis from aek was loaned out to their team for 6 months. it would be sort of a smaller manucho effect to the fans.

I just think it would help smaller teams imporve over time. At least more so than now.

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I disagree with my buddy Niko here. Lessening the amount of teams hasn't helped the SPL, why would it help us?

The Superleague has made great strides this year & the new play-off system at the end of the year gives everyone hope. I think we should stick to this process for a few years and see how it works out.

As for malking money, tickets should be half the price they are now! If each club doubles their attendences but makes the same amount of money because of the fall in profit from tickets, that will still bring other benefits. (1) Increased attendances brings better atmospheres and more prestige. (2) More people will buy, as Niko says, Frappes :) which brings more money. (3) Those same fans will buy merchandise which again brings more money.

That's the only immediate change that should be made imo.

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Aside from developpement etc, id liek your thoughts on the actual system discussed. etc.

thank you.

i give you a thumb's up for taking the time to think about how greek football can improve itself.

i just hope you don't think i'm pissing all over you and your idea...your ideas and comments are appreciated by me and others, and it's ok for people to have different views. the problems are objective, the answers are subjective.

Very well put.
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Alright i accept all ur rebuttles and ideas. I just have two things to say.

First off, for the smaller team home games. I used Veria as an example when it comes to attendace but i had Iraklis in my head when it came monetarily.

Veria played 3 games this season at home against the big 3. Only one wasnt a sellout but the average for those 3 games were nearly 4000. if u take away those three games, the average attendance is 2100. Or take xanthi, yesterday against pao, they had nearly 6000 fans. 1700 were pao fans but nonetheless. if they had 2 or 3 more of those games per season, thats 12 to 18000 more tickets sold. thats money. im saying its a start and when u take away most of the teams in a 16 team league and cut it down to 12, it automatically keeps ur best 12 starting 11`s in the superleague, instead of having 16 starting elevens. Its a numbers game but for some reason it makes sense in my head.

Take the NHL, before we had 21 teams and now we are over 30, the quality of players has diminished and most teams play with a shortened bench to keep up with the richer teams. Team parity starts from the top. Or we can try a revenue sharing agreement like in baseball or the NFL. In the NFL u have different teams making the playoffs every year.. or pretty much. sure u have the same 3 or 4 that are always there but thats a given. as for the 200 or 300k extra, maybe itll help veria or levadia keep that extra player instea dof selling him IN greece and stay up an extra year and sign or try to developp that young player.

As for Dudes comment with the SPL, i agree. but in one way. Yes most of the teams are crap in the SPL but thats because they are too busy selling their players to england. look at the number of transfers from the bottom 8 teams in the past 5 years that have gone on to england or the top 3 in scotland. You cant expect teams to keep fighting if they keep giving away their best weapons.

As for ticket prices being too high. I completely disagree. Here in canada, i go to the bell centre to watch the montreal canadiens play at least 7 or 8 times a year. There are 41 home games every season, not including playoffs, and average ticket prices are 75 to 80$. they have sold out 210 consecutive games now.

In greece you are talkin about 15 home games at an average ticket price of 15 or 20. thats peanuts. I like what these two arianoi were talkin about on the radio the other day. They said, what teams should do is the following.

Keep an average ticket price of say.. 15 or 20 dollars for their home fans. But say Aris is playing PAO, charge Pao fans 70 or 80 dollars and vice versa. When Aris went to play in Bayern, some fans paid over 100 euros per ticket. thats monstrous. for greek standards. But hey its a way to make a profit.

As for revenue sharing, the big fish should always help the little fish. but go try explaining that to Kokkalis and Tzigger.

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Guest TheLegend

I understand you "help the little people" idea but if the US government doesnt do it, no sport associatons do it, why in all countries would GREEKS do it! lol...

Anyways you gota see it their way. If you were a billionaire would you wana give money to your competition?

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Think about it this way. If during the regular season, PAOK and IRAKLIS play two home games agaisnt oly and pao by luck of the draw, thats 2 games more with 30k people more per game. At least an average of lets say 15 EU per ticket, u r talkin about 9 million dollars of ticket sales. In the long run, this can help the littler teams progress and maybe even make an impact.

I think you're doing your math wrong man..15 euro x 30,000=450,000 euro with two games is 900,000 euro...not 9 Million but .9 Million

somewhere else down there you make the same mistake

Big difference

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ok i suck at math,, but if there is a difference from 900 000k to 9 million then there must be a difference from 0 to 900 000k.

Im talking 900000 k for little teams. not teams like pao or aek. that wont make a difference. Although two more home games at leoforos. at 40 euros tickets is an extra million. doesnt hurt right. But forget all that. Im talkin about helping the little teams make a difference in the long run.

Lets say there is a potential buyer for Veria who has a few million dollars. not someone who is willing to break even. well if he sees that next season he will play 6 home games against pao oly and aek instead of 3, he doubles his revenue. he knows that hell make 2 instead of 1 million. or whatever. my point is that, if he knowingly knows that staying in the superleague means an extra million or two just from 6 home games... he will do anything he has to to solidify the futur and making sure, to the best of his abilities, that his team stays in Superleaguye. This means, no selling of young talent to the big three, the prospect of bringing IN young talent from 2nd or 3rd division teams, possibly expanding the stadiums to attract higher crowds and the posssibility of one day expanding his youth program, etc.

If nothing changes, things will stay the same.

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I think you're doing your math wrong man..15 euro x 30,000=450,000 euro with two games is 900,000 euro...not 9 Million but .9 Million

somewhere else down there you make the same mistake

Big difference

besides, the average ticket price for games agaisnt oly, pao and thessalonikian derbies is higher than 15 EU. its probably closer to 25
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