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regardless of what happened with Villa, people sure better be hoping that PAO does not slack and takes that 2nd Place this year.

Its the best hope at getting Greece points next year.

PAOK and AEK go to UEFA and win what they can. PAO would be a much bigger favourite get to the group stages again.

Yes AEK don't ever seem to do well in Europe lately while PAOK don't have the strength to make an impact so hopefully PAO makes it (of course I'm biased here but still) :P

js1000 where are you now to say the portuguese league is better than the greek league? :P

olympiakos 5-1 Benfica

Bayern 12-1 Sporting (on agg.)

porto and braga are doing well though

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js1000 where are you now to say the portuguese league is better than the greek league? :P

olympiakos 5-1 Benfica

Bayern 12-1 Sporting (on agg.)

porto and braga are doing well though

yea, lisbon got spanked that was horrendous, but i wish greece still had representation in the champions league and also the UEFA cup.

maybe this time next year but i won't bet on it :(

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  • 4 weeks later...

regardless of what happened with Villa, people sure better be hoping that PAO does not slack and takes that 2nd Place this year.

Its the best hope at getting Greece points next year.

PAOK and AEK go to UEFA and win what they can. PAO would be a much bigger favourite get to the group stages again.

Yes AEK don't ever seem to do well in Europe lately while PAOK don't have the strength to make an impact so hopefully PAO makes it (of course I'm biased here but still) :P

js1000 where are you now to say the portuguese league is better than the greek league? :P

olympiakos 5-1 Benfica

Bayern 12-1 Sporting (on agg.)

porto and braga are doing well though

Sporting still made it into the 16 didnt they. Bayern was in great form, Sporting went into an away league and one embarassment carried on the next.

Porto are miles above any Greek team. Braga are stronger than any Greek UEFA Cup team this year.

Benfica had an off year. Sporting made it to the final 16 of the CL.

But let me guess. The league with 1 UEFA Cup team that made it barely past the group stage, and 1 CL team that made it to the final 16, is simply better than the Portuguese League. :LOL:

Also, in recent years has the Greek League any final appearances? Any semifinal appearances? any cups? NO.

Portuguese league is BETTER than the Greek league.

Coefficients, quality, Cups, european performance, history, talent pool...all stronger than the Greek league.

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  • 8 months later...

It's now 3 years in a row that a Greek team has managed to make the last 16 of the CL :gr:

It's also 3 years in a row that a Dutch team has failed to get out of the group stages.

Interesting. We need the others performing too not just PAO and Olymp

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  • 1 year later...

february and we have zero greek teams left in europe, the dutch still have PSV, ajax and fc twente and portugal are represented by braga, porto and benfica, even rangers in scotland are still in, and fc copenhagen are still in the european cup, yet greek teams flop once again.

we have a poorly attended league riddled with violence and full of second rate players and almost every team in our super league has already changed coach this season. :angry:

Edited by js1000
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february and we have zero greek teams left in europe, the dutch still have PSV, ajax and fc twente and portugal are represented by braga, porto and benfica, even rangers in scotland are still in, and fc copenhagen are still in the european cup, yet greek teams flop once again.

we have a poorly attended league riddled with violence and full of second rate  players and almost every team in our super league has already changed coach this season.  :angry:

yes but up until last season we had a greek team in the last 16 of the CL for 3 years in a row, and for 3 years in a row the dutch didn't. So this is the first season in 4 where they've out performed us, big deal. So I don't understand where the idea that Greek teams "flopped once again" comes from. Even then it was only a flop in the CL.

This was a bit of a freak season for Greek football. 9 times out of 10 Olympiakos wouldn't go out to Maccabi Tel Aviv, it's just one of those things. PAO were very poor, no excuses there. AEK shot themselves in the foot in the Europa League while PAOK and Aris did exceptionally well. PAOK beat the likes of Villareal and Fenerbahce and were VERY unlucky not to qualify against CSKA Moscow, a team that reached the last 8 of the CL last season and only went out to eventual champions Inter. While Aris qualified from a champions league quality group - Atletico, Leverkusen and Rosenborg - and knocked out Atletico, the holders, by beating them home and away.

In real terms Aris and PAOK have been alot better than Braga this season therefore. Braga only finished above a winless Partizan in the CL (a team that would finish anywhere between 6th and 9th in Greece) and then scraped past a decent Lech Poznan team.

The fact is PAO's terrible CL season was a disgrace and Olympiakos' freak defeat is the only thing the prevented Greece from having another great season. In the Europa League the teams did really well

Edited by Euro2004
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there's that greek mentality again which deems reaching the last 16 of the champions league a success, i expect more than just getting out of the group stages. As for the europa league teams yes PAOK were unlucky and aris had a tough draw but lets face it, there's no greek representation left in europe, and the mentality that says thats good enough is the reason a greek club has never and will never win anything in europe.

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there's that greek mentality again which deems reaching the last 16 of the champions league a success, i expect more than just getting out of the group stages. As for the europa league teams yes PAOK were unlucky and aris had a tough draw but lets face it, there's no greek representation left in europe, and the mentality that says thats good enough is the reason a greek club has never and will never win anything in europe.

I most certainly do not have the typical Greek mentality. After PAOK lost at home to CSKA the Greek media had an "oh well, CSKA are very good" mentatity. That's unacceptable. It's not as if they were playing Barca. When Greece played Brazil and the players and Otto were making out as if it was an honour just to be on the same pitch as them, i was so annoyed. However knowing your limitations and setting appropriate targets is just about being realistic.

The money in football has meant that a certain number of teams have become untouchable. 99% of the time the elite teams in football will beat, and destroy, the 2nd rate teams. Man Utd beat Roma 7-0 a few years ago, Bayern beat Sporting 11-1 on agg, Arsenal beat Shakhtar 4-0, Chelsea beat Porto 4-0, etc. Those elite teams are Barca, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and in European competition Bayern. This season we can add Real Madrid to that list. That's 6 teams that are untouchable and it's almost a guarantee that they'll be in the last 8. That leaves 2 spare places that everyone else competes for. The likes of Valencia, Spurs, Inter, AC Milan, Lyon, Porto, Roma, Shakhter, PSV, CSKA Moscow, Marseille, Benfica, the Greek teams, Turkish teams, etc, all compete and fight for these 2 spots. It would take an extraodinary effort to out do those teams. So making the last 8 would be an exceptional achievement, anything further than the last 8 than that is a dream season. So realistically the best we can hope for to consider it a successful season is last 16. That shouldn't be the long term goal, but building a team good enough to really have a chance of winning the CL would take years and even then it's almost impossible. Look how good Porto and Lyon are and they have very little chance. When Porto won it football was still different, now money rules the game with players on

Edited by Euro2004
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  • 3 weeks later...

there's that greek mentality again which deems reaching the last 16 of the champions league a success, i expect more than just getting out of the group stages.

Well now the last 8 has been determined too let's point out that the likes of Arsenal, Lyon, Roma, Milan and Valencia couldn't make it past the last 16, and it's the first time Real Madrid have made it past the last 16 in 7 years. So I think that reinforces my belief that the aim should be for our clubs should be as follows:

PAO and Olympiakos:

CL = last 16.

Europa = Last 8 should be the minimum to be considered successful, but winning it should always be the aim.

PAOK and AEK:

CL = At least 3rd place in the groups should be the aim.

Europa = The very minimum should be a group stage appearance, then should def be competitive with regards to getting out of the groups.

Aris:

CL = just getting there would be immense

Europa = Getting into the groups.

The rest:

CL = pipe dream

Europa = Getting into the 2nd round would be good but getting to the groups would be great

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last 8 of the eurpoa league includes braga porto and benfica, i don't think greece will ever have 3 teams in the last 8. the portugease league is way ahead of ours.

besides our teams get jittery when they reach the latter stages, PAO beat roma last season and then went to pieces in the next round against inferior opposition. greek teams don't play with any belief :angry: :(

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last 8 of the eurpoa league includes braga porto and benfica, i don't think greece will ever have 3 teams in the last 8. the portugease league is way ahead of ours.

besides our teams get jittery when they reach the latter stages, PAO beat roma last season and then went to pieces in the next round against inferior opposition. greek teams don't play with any belief  :angry:  :(

Wait a second, what are we discussing here? Aren't we talking about the Greek league without Olympiakos and PAO? Porto are much better than any team in Greece. Benfica and Olympiakos are more evenly matched in my opinion, but they have a better mentality and perform better in Europe on a more consistent basis as a result. If PAOK played Braga or Sporting I'd bet on PAOK over 2 legs. So let's consisder the rest of the Portuguese leage which is what we're discussing here.

Aris vs Pacos de Ferreira?

Kavala vs Uniao de Leira?

Atromitos vs Rio Ave?

Larisa vs Naval?

The Greek teams can be more than competitive. They'd also be competitive with the Dutch league. I'm not necessarily saying the Greek league is better (i've never said that in fact), but it's certainly competitive. I'd bet ALOT of money that the Greek teams would win more games against Scottish opposition though, it's most certainly better than the SPL. It's also better than the Turkish league, Belgian league, Danish, Norwegian, etc. In fact, the only leagues that are clearly better than the Greek league are the big 4, french and russian. The rest are fairly evenly matched or just below the Greek league.

Edited by Euro2004
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I'd bet ALOT of money that the Greek teams would win more games against Scottish opposition though, it's most certainly better than the SPL. It's also better than the Turkish league, Belgian league, Danish, Norwegian, etc. In fact, the only leagues that are clearly better than the Greek league are the big 4, french and russian. The rest are fairly evenly matched or just below the Greek league.

yea the standard of the SPL has certainly slipped over the last 5 or 6 years it has declined steadily every year, they used to have money and attract top players in the SPL - no longer the case though.

my own personal view is that we're behind - as you've mentioned - the big 4 french and russian, but i'd add to that list the ukrainian league and i still feel portugease and dutch league's are ahead of ours, we're probably on par with the turkish league with the swiss not too far behind

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yea the standard of the SPL has certainly slipped over the last 5 or 6 years it has declined steadily every year, they used to have money and attract top players in the SPL  - no longer the case though.

my own personal view is that we're behind - as you've mentioned - the big 4 french and russian, but i'd add to that list the ukrainian league and i still feel portugease and dutch league's are ahead of ours, we're probably on par with the turkish league with the swiss not too far behind

Unfortunately I believe the greek league is about to enter years of decline that it might never recover from because of UEFA's introduction of their new expenditure limits. Greek clubs just won't have the revenue to compete because attendences are low, tv money is abysmal, and the economic climate in Greece will filter on to the pitch. It has already been widely reported that players like Vierinha will leave (to one of Benfica, Porto or Zenit) and Scocco (linked with numerous Italian teams). The likes of AEK and PAOK won't replace them with players of the same quality. PAO won't replace Cisse effectively either, while Olympiakos seem interested in mediocre players.

Edited by Euro2004
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Interesting point but i disagree. Look at Czech football as an example. The Czech league is poor and yet so is their national team. 10 years ago their national team was stronger and so was their league. Look at Spanish and German football, strong national teams and strong leagues. Our clubs have to be strong but at the same time we should give youth a fair chance. I believe the media has a big part to play in this. When Rommedahl signed for Olympiakos for example the media were potraying him as a major coup. The guy is not Olympiakos material though. Imagine a young Greek player of the same level was signed, he wouldn't receive half the hype.

Our league needs to be strong but we also need to improve our youth system.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In real terms Aris and PAOK have been alot better than Braga this season therefore. Braga only finished above a winless Partizan in the CL (a team that would finish anywhere between 6th and 9th in Greece) and then scraped past a decent Lech Poznan.

In the Europa League the teams did really well

yea but braga reached the semi finals and may even go further, 3 out of the 4 left are portugease teams.

can you imagine 3 greek teams in the semi final of the europa league, i'd be thrilled if we had one (even if it was olympiakos :P )

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