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He plays for the best team in Scotland, in a league that (if you take out Rangers) is on a par with the Cypriot league.

how good is the greek league if you take out oly aek and pao ?

how good is the dutch league without psv ajax & feyenoord

how good is the portugease league minus porto benfica & sporting

you underestimate the spl soto and fyssas benefited playing there and if the spl is so bad why didn't pao smash rangers 5-0

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i dont understand all the dellas bashing to be honest. he is a great player and a leader on the pitch. he is better at building up our play from the defense than any other defender currently available and much better than antzas in any case.

i would also like to add that lympe isnt exactly a better pick than samaras at the moment.

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Guest TheLegend

i dont understand all the dellas bashing to be honest. he is a great player and a leader on the pitch. he is better at building up our play from the defense than any other defender currently available and much better than antzas in any case.

i would also like to add that lympe isnt exactly a better pick than samaras at the moment.

because dellas was this back in 2004 and in 2005-06. Now hes not. As you can see since you watch AEK anytime a player with average ball control and speed goes up against him hes done. This isnt playing with Veria anymore. You all uner rate spain sweeden and russia.

Antzas has played very well this year in the CL also. Both games against Chelsea him and cesar played great. So just because he is on Olympiacos isnt a good enough reason to say he sucks ;)

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i dont understand all the dellas bashing to be honest. he is a great player and a leader on the pitch. he is better at building up our play from the defense than any other defender currently available and much better than antzas in any case.

i would also like to add that lympe isnt exactly a better pick than samaras at the moment.

because dellas was this back in 2004 and in 2005-06. Now hes not. As you can see since you watch AEK anytime a player with average ball control and speed goes up against him hes done. This isnt playing with Veria anymore. You all uner rate spain sweeden and russia.

Antzas has played very well this year in the CL also. Both games against Chelsea him and cesar played great. So just because he is on Olympiacos isnt a good enough reason to say he sucks ;)

Antzas vs Dellas Forum??

i totally disagree if you think antzas could do more damage to forwards than dellas..

torosidis on the other hand is a fine player and deserves to be on the NT despite what club he plays for...

But this is a Samaras forum.. lets keep it that way please

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how good is the greek league if you take out oly aek and pao ?

how good is the dutch league without psv ajax & feyenoord

how good is the portugease league minus porto benfica & sporting

you underestimate the spl soto and fyssas benefited playing there and if the spl is so bad why didn't pao smash rangers 5-0

Larisa (a team that survived relegatikn by 1 point last year(!!!!!!) KO'd Blackburn.

Aris failed to qualify because of a 93rd min equaliser from Stelios at Bolton.

Panionios made the group stages and if it wasn't for some VERY dodgy decisions on the goals vs Galatasary they may have qualified.

Who in Scotland could match these acheivements? Hibs? Hearts? Motherwell?...

you underestimate the spl soto and fyssas benefited playing there and if the spl is so bad why didn't pao smash rangers 5-0

PAO should, and could, have smashed Rangers 5-0. They completely dominated. But bear in mind, I said the SPL is s%$#! WITHOUT the top 2. Rangers are a decent team. But go and check the head to head record of Scottish teams vs Greek teams.

Sorry, but a guy that says "The Greek league is awful", followed by "The Scottish league is ok" knows nothing about football... I'm guessing you either live in England or Scotland? That would explain you typically British logic when it comes to football.

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Who in Scotland could match these acheivements? Hibs? Hearts? Motherwell?...[/b]

PAO should, and could, have smashed Rangers 5-0. They completely dominated. But bear in mind, I said the SPL is s%$#! WITHOUT the top 2. Rangers are a decent team. But go and check the head to head record of Scottish teams vs Greek teams.

Sorry, but a guy that says "The Greek league is awful", followed by "The Scottish league is ok" knows nothing about football... I'm guessing you either live in England or Scotland? That would explain you typically British logic when it comes to football.

i'm critical of the greek league because back in 1996 pao nearly made the euro cup final winning in amsterdam and losing in athens, it frustrates me that we have gone backwards since then. bolton didn't have their strongest line up vs aris and when it comes to the knock out round we continually do nothing in europe, our attendances are abysmal. frankly samaras is better off at celtic than in greece. you compare scottish football to cypriot football and then say i know nothing about football.

all i want to see is our teams challenging in europe.

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Who in Scotland could match these acheivements? Hibs? Hearts? Motherwell?...[/b]

PAO should, and could, have smashed Rangers 5-0. They completely dominated. But bear in mind, I said the SPL is s%$#! WITHOUT the top 2. Rangers are a decent team. But go and check the head to head record of Scottish teams vs Greek teams.

Sorry, but a guy that says "The Greek league is awful", followed by "The Scottish league is ok" knows nothing about football... I'm guessing you either live in England or Scotland? That would explain you typically British logic when it comes to football.

i'm critical of the greek league because back in 1996 pao nearly made the euro cup final winning in amsterdam and losing in athens, it frustrates me that we have gone backwards since then. bolton didn't have their strongest line up vs aris and when it comes to the knock out round we continually do nothing in europe, our attendances are abysmal. frankly samaras is better off at celtic than in greece. you compare scottish football to cypriot football and then say i know nothing about football.

all i want to see is our teams challenging in europe.

Anorthosis completely outplayed Rangers a couple of years ago and have put in some great performances since. I guarantee you they would finish 3rd in the Scottish league. Teams like St. Mirren are no better than teams like AEL. So yes, I can compare the Cypriot league to the Scottish league.
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Anorthosis completely outplayed Rangers a couple of years ago and have put in some great performances since. I guarantee you they would finish 3rd in the Scottish league. Teams like St. Mirren are no better than teams like AEL. So yes, I can compare the Cypriot league to the Scottish league. [/b][/color]

ok so i can compare la liga to the turkish league because fenerbahce beat seville ?can i using your logic guarantee that fenerbahce will finish 3rd in spain
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Guest TheLegend

Why would any team wana have to pay a majority of any gain from transfers to EPO. Bad idea... will make things worse..Its not even the acadamies people.... All the world class players want to play in England,spain, etc. More money, more competition, better players...

Even if you were to have acadamies try holding a good player in greece.... No one has the dream to play in Turkey, Scotland, Greece, etc for their careers... people wana play for Barca, Madrid, Man utd, Arsenal, etc.

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ok so i can compare la liga to the turkish league because fenerbahce beat seville ?can i using your logic guarantee that fenerbahce will finish 3rd in spain

No of course not, but at least I've used empirical evidence to make a statement. Apart from listening to British football pundits, what evidence do you have that would suggest that the Scottish league without the top 2 is better than the Cypriot league? Their amazing record in Europe? The amazing quality of football? The superstars that have come out of the mid-table Scottish teams?
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No of course not, but at least I've used empirical evidence to make a statement.

anorthosis had a good game vs rangers a few years ago, great evidence. i could say aberdeen got further than any cypriot team in europe.

as for the greek league HOW DOES BARNSLEY BEAT CHELSEA AND WE ROLL OVER AND LET THEM SPANK US. it frustrates the hell out of me, we should be doing better

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look at the uefa ranking of Scot clubs -- the teams that aren't Rangers and Celtic are useless - the numbers don't lie

top 200 teams

29 Glasgow Ranger

42 Celtic

107 Hearts FC

130 Aberdeen

150 Hibs

vs

OLY 39

PAO35

AEK83

PANIONios 104

Aris 111

PAOK 126

Aegaleo 148

Larisa 168

Hraklis 168

Xanthi 174

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look at the uefa ranking of Scot clubs -- the teams that aren't Rangers and Celtic are useless - the numbers don't lie

top 200 teams

29 Glasgow Ranger

42 Celtic

107 Hearts FC

130 Aberdeen

150 Hibs

vs

OLY 39

PAO35

AEK83

PANIONios 104

Aris 111

PAOK 126

Aegaleo 148

Larisa 168

Hraklis 168

Xanthi 174

the teams that are not OLY PAO AND AEK are also useless. the numbers don't lie
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agreed but a little less uselsss than the scots

leagues are similar -top heavy, with good teams in the capital --

their top 2 have a better record in UEFA than ours -slightly

our #3 is MUCH better than theirs

our rest is better than theirs

thier crap teams are all scots -while we get the garbage of Brazil and Eastern Europe to elevate ours

according to another site - if you compensate for the league sizes - our league's players are 30% more valuable ($$) than theirs if they were all transfered

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@loup

your post in the samara thread regarding spl being a better spring board to a bigger league is a valid point, thats why i'd rather see emerging greek talent play in scotland rather than in greece, like you said in that thread the leagues are pretty similar.

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@loup

your post in the samara thread regarding spl being a better spring board to a bigger league is a valid point, thats why i'd rather see emerging greek talent play in scotland rather than in greece, like you said in that thread the leagues are pretty similar.

agreed --- Samaras is in the better place for him --- if a 24 (??) year old comes back to Greece I'd say he'd stay in Greece --- for some Papadpoulos from PAO -it may be a good decision and I tyhink it was good for Zagorakis ---but Samaras and the othersethniki members not playing in Greece have a lot more to show abroad (except for Basinas)--- and most will return like a Kara to finish up their career
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The problem with Greek football is simple-there is no infrastructure.

Greek football clubs try to build a house from the roof down and not from the foundation up.

In some cases, its understandable.

Case in point-Olympiakos.

OSFP is stuck in a position where they will never be able to economically compete with Euro giants like Chelsea, Milan, Barca, ManU etc., yet they will always have more money and resources than the remaining Greek clubs.

Net result- a club that can dominate at the domestic level yet never even so much as make a dent internationally.

Why?

Well, if Oly is always stuck buying B and C grade foreigners, they will never be able to make a dent in the CL. As impresssive as the likes of Galletti, Ledesma, Lua Lua, and Kovacevic are in the SL, the fact is, they are second tier (at best) and below on an international scale. They basically are leftovers from mid level Euro sides. Oly never stands a chance competing against the big boys with these type of players.

The only other solution is to develop your own players (as is done in Holland). Domestically. But why should Oly do this when they can poach the likes of Torosidis, Galitsios, Stoltidis, Antzas, from mid level Greek clubs for relative peanuts and provide themselves and their fans with instant gratification? The psyche of the club and their fan base mandates this approach. No way in the world would your average Oly supporter go for a plan that, for instance, would pour the 16Mil Euros (or a big portion of it) they received for Castillo in youth development. They want results NOW. And Kokkalis provides that for them. He knows that signings like Toro and Antzas not only will help win domestic championships but also keep the turnstiles moving. Thats what its all about. But when he goes up against a Chelsea or a Real, paei mexri tin Drapetsona kai pathainei lastixo. Oh well, such is life. Protathlima na pairnei o Olympiakos, kai Agios o Theos. Meanwhile, the state of Greek football is in disrepair.

Sadly, most greek football fans are not fans of the game but only of their team. O noon noeito.

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I don't really see the relevance in comparing all the European leagues.

For me, they are 4 major leagues: Premier League, Bundesliga, Calcio and La Liga.

There use to be a league that was improving a few years ago - la Ligue 1 - The French league but French people confess that with the collapse of PSG and Monaco along with the supremacy of Lyon, the league is below par.

The Swiss, Scottish,Belgian, Portugueuse, Greek, Turkish, Russian etc... leagues are roughly at the same level. Yes, Greek teams did well in the UEFA this season. What will be interesting is to see if that momentum can keep going for the next few seasons which I very much doubt...

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I don't really see the relevance in comparing all the European leagues.

For me, they are 4 major leagues: Premier League, Bundesliga, Calcio and La Liga.

There use to be a league that was improving a few years ago - la Ligue 1 - The French league but French people confess that with the collapse of PSG and Monaco along with the supremacy of Lyon, the league is below par.

The Swiss, Scottish,Belgian, Portugueuse, Greek, Turkish, Russian etc... leagues are roughly at the same level. Yes, Greek teams did well in the UEFA this season. What will be interesting is to see if that momentum can keep going for the next few seasons which I very much doubt...

It's interesting to read the perspective of someone who's neutral. I have to say, I disagree with you though. I think there are 3 elite leagues, followed by the Bundesliga. Then Ligue 1 & the Portuguese league are on a par, followed by the Greek and Dutch leagues. The rest are lower imo. I don't think it's possible to place the Belgian & Turkish league in the same category as the Portuguese league, no way.
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It's interesting to read the perspective of someone who's neutral. I have to say, I disagree with you though. I think there are 3 elite leagues, followed by the Bundesliga. Then Ligue 1 & the Portuguese league are on a par, followed by the Greek and Dutch leagues. The rest are lower imo. I don't think it's possible to place the Belgian & Turkish league in the same category as the Portuguese league, no way.

My feeling is that outside of "my" top 4, these leagues are roughly dominated by 2 or 3 clubs with the rest being very random teams...
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I think there are 3 elite leagues, followed by the Bundesliga. Then Ligue 1 & the Portuguese league are on a par, followed by the Greek and Dutch leagues. The rest are lower imo. I don't think it's possible to place the Belgian & Turkish league in the same category as the Portuguese league, no way.[/b][/color]

i wish i shared your faith in the greek league, i think the dutch are way ahead of us, also a few years ago teams like pao could compete with arsenal i remember when arsenal were playing their champions league games at wembley and pao were unfortunate to lose there, greek teams used to give a good account of themselves in europe thats no longer the case. i think psv ajax feyenoord benfica sporting porto celtic rangers would all fancy their chances against a top greek side. would olympiakos pao or aek fancy their chances against fenerbahce besiktas or galatasaray, i'd say it would be pretty even.

:(

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i wish i shared your faith in the greek league, i think the dutch are way ahead of us, also a few years ago teams like pao could compete with arsenal i remember when arsenal were playing their champions league games at wembley and pao were unfortunate to lose there, greek teams used to give a good account of themselves in europe thats no longer the case. i think psv ajax feyenoord benfica sporting porto celtic rangers would all fancy their chances against a top greek side. would olympiakos pao or aek fancy their chances against fenerbahce besiktas or galatasaray, i'd say it would be pretty even.

:(

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think you just don't watch enough Greek football, and just base your opinions on hearsay. Olympiakos & PAO are in a different class from Besiktas and Galatasary. Fenerbahce are a good side and that would be an interesting contest.

As for the others you mentioned, I would be VERY confident against Benfica, Celtic, Sporting, PSV, Rangers (which we've seen against PAO already this year), and Porto. And I am 99% sure (only because you can never be 100% sure in football) that Oly and PAO would beat, and are better, than Ajax and Feyenoord. While I believe that teams like Aris & Panionios are better than teams like Heerenveen and AZ. So That's why I feel that the Greek league is better than the Dutch.

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