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Toumba Stadium


Ziaka

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14 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Interesting. Is Savvidis really going to go with Populous (https://populous.com/) to build the new Toumba? Really good choice if he is.

Wonder who leaked this, since the watermark says "internal use only".

hmmmm interesting, i just did a count from memory and in the two dozen architectural offices I have worked in, none ever  put a watermark like that on any of their images

 

EVER

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19 hours ago, pash said:

Big grain of salt here:

 

It was leaked from a mysterious user with a single drive-by post on skyscrapercity.com (probably the biggest architecture related forums online). The user disappeared afterwards. Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened. 

I actually orginally reposted that image from skyscrapercity.com and tweeted populous and paok, asking them it is real, hoping that they will give more information. I then also tweeted it to various greek sports sites hoping that they'll somehow get to the bottom to it, and then that guy came along and tweeted it taking it from my twitter handle, then paokvoice got made an article about it using that guys tweet.

Its a really poor design, it's imposing, boring, generic looking. It would look like a giant hangar in the centre of Thessaloniki. I think there's a high chance that this design was scrapped, judging by the constant delays with the stadium.

That watermark is though absolutely horrible though unless they decided to send some sort of presentation to many different 3rd parties. Definitely an overkill. Unless the leak was a scanned document, and these watermarks only show up when the document is scanned or photographed with flash. 

However, I doubt it's fake as it is clearly a high budget physical model in the photo. Definitely not something one or two people can make.

I presume the leaker was either butthurt that the designed he worked so hard was canned or the design is absolutely horrible, and it would be a tragedy for the area, so he hoped to cause an uproar from before. Or it could be someone who received the presentation and wanted to give Paok fans a small glimpse.
 

Edited by Nilaul
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6 hours ago, Nea Bafra said:

hmmmm interesting, i just did a count from memory and in the two dozen architectural offices I have worked in, none ever  put a watermark like that on any of their images

EVER

At the company I work for, all our design documents have watermarks until they are officially released into production phase.

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8 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Could also be a fake photo shopped image. 

The model is real, there's an actual physical model of a stadium that doesn't match up to any other model or known stadium. Models like these are expensive to produce and it's not something one or two people can do, it most likely required a 3D printer too, and at that scale, it definitely puts its past amateur level.

So its definitely real but there is a chance that the design was meant for another team and some guy just snapped a photo and thought it would be funny to cause a stir. Also, the stadium might come out looking completely different, this may be just one of the many designs they proposed for Paok. When your getting paid thousands, you won't mind making a few of these models. 
 

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8 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

At the company I work for, all our design documents have watermarks until they are officially released into production phase.

Some companies also use security papers for printing, it looks fine until you try to scan it and then the whole page is watermarked.

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12 hours ago, Nilaul said:

It was leaked from a mysterious user with a single drive-by post on skyscrapercity.com. The user disappeared afterward

 skyscrapercity.com 

I presume the leaker was either butthurt that the designed he worked so hard was canned or the design is absolutely horrible, and it would be a tragedy for the area, so he hoped to cause an uproar from before. Or it could be someone who received the presentation and wanted to give Paok fans a small glimpse.
 

204875.png

 

Luuuuccccyyyy, you have some explaining to do....?

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10 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

At the company I work for, all our design documents have watermarks until they are officially released into production phase.

What I mean is, internally assuming this guy is from populous, they would have access to the pre watermarked image. So it's either a PAOK leak [doubtful, because god knows you wouldn't send a client and certainly not Ivan an ugly watermarked image] or from a sub consultant. The sub consultant is my bet if this is legit.

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13 hours ago, Bajewy said:

204875.png

 

Luuuuccccyyyy, you have some explaining to do....?

That was when a subcontractor of Paok basically downloaded my model of SketchUp and did a recolouring of it, a few changes and presented it on TV a few years ago. Nothing to do with this project. Paok wasn't at fault, this issue has been settled with the relevant party.

I'm not involved with this project in any way, The leaked design would definitely not be the direction I would take Toumba in.

Edited by Nilaul
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I was actually just gonna ask what happened with that. I remember that model was badass. It's a good thing you didn't send Gate 4 after them; we don't need more penalties and fines thank you very much.

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Για γήπεδο δεν ακούγεται τίποτα επίσημο... Μακάρι να μην κολλήσει η φάση, αλλά μάλλον και του χρόνου στην Τούμπα θα είμαστε! Δεν πειράζει, να μπούμε και ομίλους Τσουλού στην Τούμπα και μετά να γκρεμιστεί!

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Concerning new Toumba, don't forget there will be elections in Greece in few months and the whole Toumba project might be blocked (or made difficult) by the new government (both national and local).

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7 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Concerning new Toumba, don't forget there will be elections in Greece in few months and the whole Toumba project might be blocked (or made difficult) by the new government (both national and local).

I reckon that Syriza might want to push this through before the elections and if possible get the contracts done and settled. They need the votes.

I reckon the new government won't want to be blamed for blocking this, they'll need the votes in 4 years time.

Greek politics is a mess, not as big of a mess as the current British government but still a big mess.

Edited by Nilaul
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7 hours ago, Nilaul said:

I reckon that Syriza might want to push this through before the elections and if possible get the contracts done and settled. They need the votes.

I reckon the new government won't want to be blamed for blocking this, they'll need the votes in 4 years time.

These two paragraphs basically sum up the problem of worldwide politics. Nobody cares about improving the present. It’s all about winning the next election and the one after that.

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You cant just let someone with money build whatever you. Let's welcome all the investors wanting to build a skyscraper infront of the Akropolis. 

The fact is that there's going to be a new stadum, as long as its under 42m (aparantly).  Right now I imagine they are conducting research on the ground, foundations, light studies and how to make the area function with 40,000+ stadium and whatever other investments will need to be done. This ain't just going to be a stadium, it's most likely going to be some infrastructure works. All of this takes months. 

Having investors build whatever they want however they want is a recipe for disaster for cities. 

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1 hour ago, PAOTHEGREAT said:

Nobody is saying build whatever you want and where.  what I'm saying is....if it takes 2 years to get projects approved in normal countries,   it takes 10 years in Greece....we are discussing normal projects here....not reconstructing Athens and building in front of the Akropolis.    A stadium and infrastructure work in the area.  Is that too difficult to handle?

Wasnt the research team selected this year or late last year? They changed the law so this stadium could pass already. However, this has a long way to go, I don't even think there is a design to send to the ΣτΕ for approval.

I don't think the government here is at fault, Tsipras has been very cooperative. 

Edited by Nilaul
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For all we know, Ivan pitched a fit when he saw a design and ordered everything scrapped etc etc. The team has kept tight lipped on this whole process, apart from little George (rarely) posting instagram pics of other stadiums.

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The current government approved changes so that small patches of land that belonged to Greek military could be used in the new Toumba project. It was a very small percentage of land that was needed for the project. PAE PAOK now has to get all the necessary construction permits before old Toumba tear down begins. The permits could become the sticking point that will delay the project. Specially if Mitsotakis becomes the new prime Minister and his designated puppet Tachaios becomes the new mayor of Thessaloniki. They are both on record sa being anti-Savvidis.

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1 hour ago, pash said:

For all we know, Ivan pitched a fit when he saw a design and ordered everything scrapped etc etc. The team has kept tight lipped on this whole process, apart from little George (rarely) posting instagram pics of other stadiums.

 

To be fair that is exactly what I think that leak was, a scrapped design.

The delays I think are entirelly cause of Paok and its design team/s.

 

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