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PAOK Women's Football Club


Ziaka

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Στην Ελλάδα τα αγόρια δεν παίζουν πια ποδόσφαιρο, περιμένεις να υπάρχουν κορίτσια που θα παίζουν ποδόσφαιρο; Το πρωτάθλημα των γυναικών είναι αστείο. Είναι ο ΠΑΟΚ και το χάος.

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(sorry to hijack the thread, but...)

 

Regardless of what's going on in Greece, the women's game in general is underfunded and still in the early stages of its development. The absolutely crazy swings in scores between teams is a good sign of that - you'd expect in an efficient system (with a base level of skill that comes from being coached, supported, etc) that teams would weed out outlier scorelines. In the women's game in particular, I feel you get mostly outliers.

I think if I have time this weekend I'll try to find some good historical data on various teams from men's and women's leagues and plot out the regression, as that is easier to see as a scatterplot. My claim/thesis is basically that if you look at it as a function of time (x-axis on a chart) that you'll see a tighter grouping of aggregate goals per game (y-axis) as a league or sport "ages." This is what is referred to as "regression towards the mean" for the statistically-minded among us.

 

If anyone has any ideas for good sources on that kind of goals-per-game data please feel free to share! The wider the set the better the results.

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On 1/31/2020 at 4:29 AM, pash said:

(sorry to hijack the thread, but...)

 

Regardless of what's going on in Greece, the women's game in general is underfunded and still in the early stages of its development. The absolutely crazy swings in scores between teams is a good sign of that - you'd expect in an efficient system (with a base level of skill that comes from being coached, supported, etc) that teams would weed out outlier scorelines. In the women's game in particular, I feel you get mostly outliers.

I think if I have time this weekend I'll try to find some good historical data on various teams from men's and women's leagues and plot out the regression, as that is easier to see as a scatterplot. My claim/thesis is basically that if you look at it as a function of time (x-axis on a chart) that you'll see a tighter grouping of aggregate goals per game (y-axis) as a league or sport "ages." This is what is referred to as "regression towards the mean" for the statistically-minded among us.

 

If anyone has any ideas for good sources on that kind of goals-per-game data please feel free to share! The wider the set the better the results.

no need for the apology. you are spot on. we have an example of that here. we have a fledling semi-pro national women's league in the aussie rules [about to start season 3]. The concept of promoting it and organising it is admirable and needed however the standard is horrid as the majority of players have not played continuously from a young age like the equivalent males. Also many of them have been poached for their athletic skills from other sports.

conversely we are now seeing in Australia in football that the almost two decades long consistent promotion for girls to play junior football is paying dividends in our WNT, that critical mass filters down to the junior levels. they are now scouting semi elite squads down to U12 for the girls and while some of them are treated just like money making devices regardless there is an increased training load and the girls skill acquisition goes up regardless.

for the PAOK women to get better on the continent they need their local competition to improve to give them a challenge [and to give them players to poach] they are doing something akin to what Oly have done in the men's comp over the last 20 years.

sorry for the long post

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  • 8 months later...
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On 11/5/2020 at 4:57 AM, Dutch Eagle said:

PAOK (W) - Benfica (W) 1-3. PAOK’s goal by Vardali.

Just to give you an idea of generally the state of greek football.

Benfica got mauled today conceding 5 goals in the first 55 minutes to Chelsea.

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I think when you're talking about relatively young leagues/new teams/new sports, those kinds of wild swings are not unheard of. There seems to be a "wild" period before results settle into statistically consistent patterns (better teams win more often, that kind of thing). Though I don't doubt that Chelsea's setup is better than Benfica's which is better than ours!

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I agree completely. The problem for areas with low participation levels is that the ability to ID and develop talent is much harder. 

I'd love to know what is any kind of pay the PAOK players get and what the numbers of registered juniors is.

For example my daughter's club is not an elite level [WNPL] club but it is the second biggest junior club in the state. It has multiple teams in every age group from u9 up to u16 and then two open age teams [seniors/reserves]. That's over 100 females playing, developing, competing from an early age. Does this happen in Greece?

Outside of the big clubs what is the competition structure like for juniors? 

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You make a great point. I think this is also why some of the powerhouses in women's NTs are not your traditional players (in the men's game). The USWNT are badass and they seemed to have put together a program that will actually identify and develop kids. This is even without the funding advantage the men's side gets. I guess that just shows you how far off Greece is from being respectable in this area?

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The US team is the perfect example of funding for development over funding of elite clubs combined with participation. The in built college system helps with the ID of talent.

I imagine the issue for the US system is as the European leagues expand outside of the traditional Sweden/France/Germany into the other major nations and beyond how does it retain talent. At the moment the US girls are going over, but I can see in the next decade EU will have enough homegrown talent to not require them.

Then as the US league is no longer a destination for players because everyone wants to play champions league, what do they do.

Also, I tried to go on the EPO's website to find out about junior football and all I could see was some national U12 tournament/competition. Nothing about women's or junior football. I'm not surprised, just saddened.

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EPO doesn't GAF about 'em, that much is clear.

All I'll say to the other leagues getting better - this is true, and in an ideal world, skill would become distributed like that. But if the men's game is anything to go by, there is nothing stopping a team from retaining its powerhouse status. If Germany can stay at the highest levels indefinitely, there's no reason the USWNT can't as well, right?

 

Ignoring all that - I wonder if women's development works out in other countries due to the different perceptions around the game? At least in the US, all too many people consider soccer/football to be for girls. It's non-threatening, not manly, so parents (rightly or wrongly) think it's better to send their little girls there to play. I'm sure there are all sorts of studies on this that I'm not even aware of actually.

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It’s a goal and dream of mine to go work over there with the women’s soccer federation and help improve it. I coach in the US at a high level for women’s soccer and I want to help create a feeder system between girls here and there that can improve the quality of play. 

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