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This is the end


thrylos

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Well folks, I don't think it was as bad the result was. We could easily have had 3-4 more goals as Turkey could have had 2 more. If Stelios scores it is a 2-2 game. 1 minute later Turkey scores to make it 3-1 and game over.

Problems with the Ethniki.

1--Nikopolidis is at fault for the 3 first goals. He is not the same keeper as he was 1 year ago. His time is up (this from a big supporter of Nikopolidid)

2--Pace on the backs. Fyssas is too slow. Dellas is too slow. Greece won the Euro with speedy backs. Get back to it. Torosidis played well. Basinas, Stelios and Charisteas are done. They should be on the team but as subs.

3--The extra effort. Only Karagounis and Samaras hustled throughout. Most were trying to look too cute and not make the simple play.

4--No support. Why always look for the long ball. Bring the ball up. Keep possession.

Greece has so many young and fast players that it is time to bring 3-4 along. I don't know what Rehagel will do between now and Wednesday but there need to be changes. No longer can we win with status quo. We can compete but I don't want us to just compete. I want us to win.

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I have said on at least 10 occasions on the forums that if we are going to get crushed by 4 goals, then lets gut the the team with promising youth. If we lose by 4 then they will learn from that! This is not happening now with this group of players!

Why are we in this position? Otto worked wonders but he is a one trick pony.

He is continuously selecting players that are so past their prime that we are always going to be embarressed in these matches.

Nikopolidis thinks he can look at a ball going into the goal and by pure will he can see it miss the back of the net.

He is finished! So is Anatolakis, kapsis, Fyssas, Dellas, Basinas, Chalkias...

Sack Otto and gut the squad! Show some balls you MORONS at EPO!

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Changes should have been made right after the Confederation's cup...players, etc..I think EPO doesn't want to make major changes right now cause it's risky and it will fail us to to make it to euro 2008.

It's not the end of the world..This result was way overdue and coincidentally it happened to be Turkey to beat us in Athens. I'm glad we got the beating. Whatever, time for changes, hopefully.

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Today's performance, if you could call it that, was an atrocity. Almost unthinkable.... It's high time they thank the German and show him the door. Build him a statue if you like, but make him a thing of the past.... The problem with his approach (stubborness if the truth be told) is that he sticks with aging veterans and a now all-too-predictable game plan. The problem with this squad is that they are incapable of SUSTAINING an attack. Where's the technique? They've been reduced to playing that laughable long-ball style that the pathetic English are know for -- it's great in the Premier League, but fails miserably in international competition.... Scrap this entire squad, starting with Nikopolidis -- who has become a national embarrassment and his play a crime against nature -- and go with the younger players. Anchor the team around players like Samaras, who was the only player to show up today.... Maybe they should hire a Dutch coach and start taking risks out there.... I'm only glad that this didn't happen during Holy Week....

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Today's performance, if you could call it that, was an atrocity. Almost unthinkable.... It's high time they thank the German and show him the door. Build him a statue if you like, but make him a thing of the past.... The problem with his approach (stubborness if the truth be told) is that he sticks with aging veterans and a now all-too-predictable game plan. The problem with this squad is that they are incapable of SUSTAINING an attack. Where's the technique? They've been reduced to playing that laughable long-ball style that the pathetic English are know for -- it's great in the Premier League, but fails miserably in international competition.... Scrap this entire squad, starting with Nikopolidis -- who has become a national embarrassment and his play a crime against nature -- and go with the younger players. Anchor the team around players like Samaras, who was the only player to show up today.... Maybe they should hire a Dutch coach and start taking risks out there.... I'm only glad that this didn't happen during Holy Week....

You have articulated what I have been bluntly stating for the last 2 years.

Thanks for your clarity and common sense. I think we have finally got consensus amongst most posters on these forums.

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As I say, these results to happen. From what I heard, Greece could have been 3-1 themselves.

It is just about taking your chances. Both teams are pretty even. Certainly 1-4 was a bit flattering and I sure Terim would not think their side was that dominant on given the score.

What I do agree with is youth is lacking and this is a systematic in Greek football. Other than Ninis and a few others, does anyone know who else is coming through

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Guys, you really really have to calm down. you're going through the problems we went through in 2004 and 2005, in other words, the problems suffered by all the teams that are not accustomed to achievements when they get a success.

We also had the same problems after 2002 World Cup. Our team was strong but most players were ageing (Hakan Sukur, Umit Davala, Penbe Ergun, Ilhan Mansiz, Alpay, Bulent Korkmaz...etc) so in the 2003 FIFA Confederations Cup we inserted a batch of youngsters (Tuncay Sanli, Ibrahim Toraman, Balci Serkan, Selcuk Sahin --who killed Ronaldinho in the famous 2-2 game-- ). As that 2003 team got great resuts, we fell into a dilemma. Shall we stick to our 2002 team of ageing legends or shall we go on with the batch of 20 year-olds that sparkled in 2003?

We continued with our ageing team until EURO 2004 qualification and guess what?? We lost out to one of the weakest teams in Europe, Latvia and missed out on EURO 2004.

So, the old guys were all wiped out. There was no Davala, no Sukur, no Alpay, no Mansiz, no Penbe anymore and we replaced them with guys like Servet Cetin, Deniz Baris, Gokdeniz, Fatih Tekke and Altintop bro.s. The headcoach also changed. 2002 hero Senol Gunes resigned and was replaced by the most promising Turkish coach, Ersun Yanal who was well-known for his attacking knack.

A new team.. A new coach.. We were expecting succes. But it didn't come! We had three important rivals in our WC qualifying group, namely Ukraine, Greece and Denmark and we only managed to get 1 win over the course of 6 games with these teams. Thanks to some silly losses by Denmark and Greece, we luckily made it as the runner-up in the group.

Then, we saw what the right thing was! It was merger; convening available players from both parties. And the man to do that in the most successfull way was no other than menagerial legend, Fatih Terim. He got the NT spot and made instant changes. Despite criticisms, Sukur was back at the NT at 34, Alpay was called up after a break of three years, Akyel Fatih was called up after a long break, too. But he didn't only rely on the old credibles. He also gave chances to Demirel Volkan who took the gloves of Rustu Recber at the very critical moment, Yildiray Basturk who was way out-of-form, Akin Serhat, Necati Ates, Ibrahim Toraman and other youngsters.

We came to the brink of qualification for the WC but we failed to win over the lucky and under-FIFA protection-Swiss just on away goals rule in a tie which we simply deserved to run out as winners by some margin.

But we were on the right track and here we have 12 points from 4 games in our group and looking comfortable for qualification right now.

I know it is quite long but what Greece has to do now is pretty much the same thing. In this respect, Greece is one-step behind Turkey I believe, and that's because they didn't make use of the 2005 Confederations Cup for their youngsters. But it is not too late and only with a few changes to this line-up, this team can be a very strong contender again.

My view..

--------------------------------------SIFAKIS---------------------------------------------

--------SEITARIDIS------KYRGIAKOS-------TAVLARIDIS-----TOROSIDIS-----------

----------------KATSOURANIS-----TZIOLIS-------SPYROPOULOS---------------------

--------4 guys to select from-------2 guys to select from-------SAMARAS-----------

4 guys: Gekas / Salpingidis / Dimitris Pap / Giannis Amanatidis

2 guys: Mantzios / Charisteas

You can always have 30+ guys like Basinas, Kara, Stelios and Dellas sit on the bench to make their contributions when necessary and you can always give young guys like Leontiou, Ninis (maybe in a year or two I think), Arampatzis and Castigio (has he been neutralised yet?) the chance to show their explosive talents.

But of course, there are few guys on this team to farewell in my opinion. This group is led by the unlucky man of yesterday's match, Adonis Nikopolidis. He really has some reflex and decision problems very probably because of his age. To add to that, we all know he doesn't have the best handling and positioning skills in the world, so it's time to bring up someone else, and given the current condition of Greek goalkeepers at high level (Chalkias, Eleftheropoulos --even if I don't rate him as an even below-par GK, Fanis), it's time Otto gave Sifakis a chance.

The other guys to farewell in this team, in my humble opinion as an outsider, are Takis Fyssas who is really lacking any kind of pace that's exclusively needed in today's football in his position and also Michalis Kapsis, who hasn't done anything decent for a long long time and guys like Anatolakis and Vyntra who simply are not up to this high level. Otto seems to have a kind of grudge against him, but I think it's high time Tavlaridis had been called up.

Thank you for your patience. ;)

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Turk you dont understand, and the problems are very different and the result yesterday was one of the most disgraceful in our history, and it DID come from one mans inability.

This is a COACHING problem. Otto Rehagel is too old for this job, and is fiercely resistent to change in a changing in environment. Not using so many of the great players offered out there, and using players whose careers and ability are fading with their age is not anybody but HIS fault.

Forget 2004 for an instance. He did a horrible job following up on his success. Hes a nice guy Im sure but continuance with the SAME players in the bizarre circumstances regardless if they are out of form, coming back from injury, dont have a club even --- this is evidence of a bad coach. A good coach can acheive things - but a great one can adapt the team with the changes happening around him. Rehagel is an idol, but lets be honest and look at it from new perspective - Euro 2004 is finished - we are trying to defend that. Qualification is still likely in 2nd place (then who knows the playoff) but this team will go out in the first round of the Euro under Rehagel --- No doubt whatsoever, they are pretty bad, and he wont make changes and in circumstances he does, they are too late.

Its DEFINITLY time for a coaching change. It was ideal last year as well. We have a new generation of strengths, weaknesses and opportunities. If the coach wont mold to it, than you have a bad coach. For this new 'class' we need a new teacher. This is all Rehagel, and there is nothing that could be more clear.

Oh and realize the only reason Zagorakis isnt playing is because he retired himself. Otherwise I guarantee you he would have played yesterday. We cant prove that but we know its true. And thats part of the problem.

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Turk you dont understand, and the problems are very different and the result yesterday was one of the most disgraceful in our history, and it DID come from one mans inability.

This is a COACHING problem. Otto Rehagel is too old for this job, and is fiercely resistent to change in a changing in environment. Not using so many of the great players offered out there, and using players whose careers and ability are fading with their age is not anybody but HIS fault.

Forget 2004 for an instance. He did a horrible job following up on his success. Hes a nice guy Im sure but continuance with the SAME players in the bizarre circumstances regardless if they are out of form, coming back from injury, dont have a club even --- this is evidence of a bad coach. A good coach can acheive things - but a great one can adapt the team with the changes happening around him. Rehagel is an idol, but lets be honest and look at it from new perspective - Euro 2004 is finished - we are trying to defend that. Qualification is still likely in 2nd place (then who knows the playoff) but this team will go out in the first round of the Euro under Rehagel --- No doubt whatsoever, they are pretty bad, and he wont make changes and in circumstances he does, they are too late.

Its DEFINITLY time for a coaching change. It was ideal last year as well. We have a new generation of strengths, weaknesses and opportunities. If the coach wont mold to it, than you have a bad coach. For this new 'class' we need a new teacher. This is all Rehagel, and there is nothing that could be more clear.

Oh and realize the only reason Zagorakis isnt playing is because he retired himself. Otherwise I guarantee you he would have played yesterday. We cant prove that but we know its true. And thats part of the problem.

well said 100% spot on
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turkey was the better team... they looked very comfortable wearing the red in Kareskase... Bring in Kotsolis as the keeper... I agree with GS1905 defensive lineup for the near future... promising players are few... PAO has some good ones but they're several years away... Petropoulos from aigaleo i would start grooming from now...Bagevits is coming :ph34r: :(

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We also had the same problems after 2002 World Cup. Our team was strong but most players were ageing (Hakan Sukur, Umit Davala, Penbe Ergun, Ilhan Mansiz, Alpay, Bulent Korkmaz...etc) so in the 2003 FIFA Confederations Cup we inserted a batch of youngsters (Tuncay Sanli, Ibrahim Toraman, Balci Serkan, Selcuk Sahin --who killed Ronaldinho in the famous 2-2 game-- ). As that 2003 team got great resuts, we fell into a dilemma. Shall we stick to our 2002 team of ageing legends or shall we go on with the batch of 20 year-olds that sparkled in 2003?

still you gave the youngsters a chance at some point. our u-21 team constantly play somewhat attractive football but otto since euro 04 changed two positions on the team: kiriakos for kapsis and samaras for vryzas. remember kiriakos was in the squad before the euro, this makes it 1 change in more than three years!!!
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You see, when we calm down, we can have a very good conversation. You guys are making very good points. Mos agree that this team expired 2 years ago. It was a great feat to win euro 2004, but it became very obvious right after it that changes were needed, starting with Otto.

I love the man, but he's senile now. It's OK, we've got to start the rebuling process. It was a good thing we didn't go to the World Cup in my opinon because we'd have been humiliated in front of a billion spectators. I'm afraid the same goes for euro 08.

WHat we've done in the last 3 years is so stupid that those who can't face reality do. Kept wishing (like a bad gambler) that our bets would be rewarded.... except we kept losing a fortune (all the qualifiers, friendlies, etc)...

And, if we manage to beat Malta, people would say everything's OK!

Lastly, sports is not a the same as the nation, but they may reflect our national character.... Make your own judgment

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I agree with GS1905(prob the only Turk I have ever agreed with lol) We need to change now not next year NOW Honestly my line-up looked damn near similar to GS1905's except I still think Setlios deserves a starter role I think he is still very good but he needs a supporting cast. But sadly the same line-up will be put in for Wed we will win in a blow out and all these talks will never surface again and instead be swept under the rug because we won big. :tdown:

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Guys, you really really have to calm down. you're going through the problems we went through in 2004 and 2005, in other words, the problems suffered by all the teams that are not accustomed to achievements when they get a success.

We also had the same problems after 2002 World Cup. Our team was strong but most players were ageing (Hakan Sukur, Umit Davala, Penbe Ergun, Ilhan Mansiz, Alpay, Bulent Korkmaz...etc) so in the 2003 FIFA Confederations Cup we inserted a batch of youngsters (Tuncay Sanli, Ibrahim Toraman, Balci Serkan, Selcuk Sahin --who killed Ronaldinho in the famous 2-2 game-- ). As that 2003 team got great resuts, we fell into a dilemma. Shall we stick to our 2002 team of ageing legends or shall we go on with the batch of 20 year-olds that sparkled in 2003?

We continued with our ageing team until EURO 2004 qualification and guess what?? We lost out to one of the weakest teams in Europe, Latvia and missed out on EURO 2004.

So, the old guys were all wiped out. There was no Davala, no Sukur, no Alpay, no Mansiz, no Penbe anymore and we replaced them with guys like Servet Cetin, Deniz Baris, Gokdeniz, Fatih Tekke and Altintop bro.s. The headcoach also changed. 2002 hero Senol Gunes resigned and was replaced by the most promising Turkish coach, Ersun Yanal who was well-known for his attacking knack.

A new team.. A new coach.. We were expecting succes. But it didn't come! We had three important rivals in our WC qualifying group, namely Ukraine, Greece and Denmark and we only managed to get 1 win over the course of 6 games with these teams. Thanks to some silly losses by Denmark and Greece, we luckily made it as the runner-up in the group.

Then, we saw what the right thing was! It was merger; convening available players from both parties. And the man to do that in the most successfull way was no other than menagerial legend, Fatih Terim. He got the NT spot and made instant changes. Despite criticisms, Sukur was back at the NT at 34, Alpay was called up after a break of three years, Akyel Fatih was called up after a long break, too. But he didn't only rely on the old credibles. He also gave chances to Demirel Volkan who took the gloves of Rustu Recber at the very critical moment, Yildiray Basturk who was way out-of-form, Akin Serhat, Necati Ates, Ibrahim Toraman and other youngsters.

We came to the brink of qualification for the WC but we failed to win over the lucky and under-FIFA protection-Swiss just on away goals rule in a tie which we simply deserved to run out as winners by some margin.

But we were on the right track and here we have 12 points from 4 games in our group and looking comfortable for qualification right now.

I know it is quite long but what Greece has to do now is pretty much the same thing. In this respect, Greece is one-step behind Turkey I believe, and that's because they didn't make use of the 2005 Confederations Cup for their youngsters. But it is not too late and only with a few changes to this line-up, this team can be a very strong contender again.

My view..

--------------------------------------SIFAKIS---------------------------------------------

--------SEITARIDIS------KYRGIAKOS-------TAVLARIDIS-----TOROSIDIS-----------

----------------KATSOURANIS-----TZIOLIS-------SPYROPOULOS---------------------

--------4 guys to select from-------2 guys to select from-------SAMARAS-----------

4 guys: Gekas / Salpingidis / Dimitris Pap / Giannis Amanatidis

2 guys: Mantzios / Charisteas

You can always have 30+ guys like Basinas, Kara, Stelios and Dellas sit on the bench to make their contributions when necessary and you can always give young guys like Leontiou, Ninis (maybe in a year or two I think), Arampatzis and Castigio (has he been neutralised yet?) the chance to show their explosive talents.

But of course, there are few guys on this team to farewell in my opinion. This group is led by the unlucky man of yesterday's match, Adonis Nikopolidis. He really has some reflex and decision problems very probably because of his age. To add to that, we all know he doesn't have the best handling and positioning skills in the world, so it's time to bring up someone else, and given the current condition of Greek goalkeepers at high level (Chalkias, Eleftheropoulos --even if I don't rate him as an even below-par GK, Fanis), it's time Otto gave Sifakis a chance.

The other guys to farewell in this team, in my humble opinion as an outsider, are Takis Fyssas who is really lacking any kind of pace that's exclusively needed in today's football in his position and also Michalis Kapsis, who hasn't done anything decent for a long long time and guys like Anatolakis and Vyntra who simply are not up to this high level. Otto seems to have a kind of grudge against him, but I think it's high time Tavlaridis had been called up.

Thank you for your patience.  ;)

gs1905- a good post, you but you need to understand a fact or 2 about greek football.

greek football is not turkish football. the 'education' a young greek footballer has, pales in comparison to every other nation's, including turkey's.

the greek league is corrupt, there is no need or sense of urgancy for club sides to pour money into their youth academies and develope footballers.

panathinaikos is the exception- and that reason is obvious. it's better to have a decent 21 year old greek player making 3,000 euro a month than paying a good 26 year old greek player who has blossomed with pao 9,000 a month. the greek clubs will not compete with foreign clubs.

aek is trying, but, lacks the funds to make a short-term difference. maybe in the future, and that is ONLY if aek continues under this philosophy, by investing in youth.

olympiakos? no comment here. why would they pour money into a quality youth program and develope academies, when they win the championship every year..?

ask yourself this question, and then you will understand why there are not many answers in the u-21 greek side.

oh man..

don't you honestly think it's the same over here??

do you remember any players in Turkey for the last 20-25 years coming from Fenerbahce academies? they probably invest in hiring refs instead of youngsters.

Galatasaray try, and have over a dozen promising players on loan at other Superleague clubs.

Besiktas used to have a great youth system but it's gone now.

Turkey might have one advantage compared to Greece in this respect, and that is die vier Millionen Türke in Deutschland..

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Greek football missed the boat in the last five years when it comes to a major aspect of the game: speed.

The speed of the game involves several different factors

1) Player individual speed: Our players, even the ones we consider fast (and I can't think of many), look so slow when they play in Europe, it's depressing.

2) Passing: A speeding ball is always faster than a player. Passing the ball around quickly can make even a team with slow players look fast. It is the holly grail for the direct football that we want (and can't) play. It requires everyone to be in constant motion as to give multiple options to the ball handler, and also it requires excellent fist touch, and accuracy.

3) The pitch: Well, if you ever watched the kind of games that are played in the Superleague you would have noticed that the length of grass in many stadiums is more conducive to grazing than a fast play. I watched the Kerkyra-AEK game and it looked as if the players and the ball were constantly stuck on the long blades of grass that reached up to their angles. I suspect that smaller teams do this to gain an advantage but it's another example why short term gains have a negative impact on long term benefits.

4) Coherency: None of the starters yesterday play in the superleague (except Delas) any longer, but then again not many of them are regular starters for their teams in Europe (probably because they are slow). Fast play requires coherency but our players only see each other during NT practice before each game. Looking at our starting lineup against Turkey, we played 11 players from 11 different team spread in 7 different countries.

In the game yesterday our lack of speed was painfully obvious. The Turkish players collected just about every single loose ball there was. This was partly because they hustled more, and partly because they were always a step faster than our players in every line. Samaras and Gekas were the only ones who showed some individual speed but they were never served in position to threaten, and when they were in positions to serve, no one hustled enough to make themselves a target.

Anyway, that will take years and a new generation of players to correct.

In my mind it's more important to keep our eyes on the larger picture than to make sweeping changes in the heat of the moment (accepting that changes are needed).

Yesterday's loss was the worst in our history given the circumstances, but as I said before if we qualify and play well in Euro 2008 it's going to be a win for bragging rights only.

This is the time to show our legendary strength of character that served us so well for thousands of years, and to put aside some of the impulsive traits we have inherited in recent history.

I hope that players, coaches, fans, and officials realize that thriving in adversity is a noble goal and I think our NT needs to focus on that right now. It's time to band together and not to fall apart.

It's easy to look like a "looser" when you win (just look at some of the messages from yesterday's forum entries), but it's much more noble to be a "winner" even when you lose.

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Turk you dont understand, and the problems are very different and the result yesterday was one of the most disgraceful in our history, and it DID come from one mans inability.

This is a COACHING problem.

Greek listen,

this is not a coaching problem....you should be happy that Otto Rehagel powered up your football..... if Otto hadnt coached Greece , Greece would be the same like 1994.

Did you saw Turkey-Greece ? I bet you saw.... I saw a technical better playing turkish team and 9 of 11 Greeks plays in the best clubs in Europe..... Why? Is this a coaching problem? NO my greek friend ..... you dont understand....

Sometimes there are better teams than Greece this means not that Greece is bad or needs a better coach or new players this is all bullshit.... Turkey has technical better playing football players you will see Turkey will also get a cup in the next years ... LOOSING AGAINST TURKEY IS NOT A SHAME THIS IS NORMAL ..... Turkey is one of the strongest in Europe .....even before Greece won the cup in 2004

the problem is : All Greeks I know gave Turkey not 1% chance to win before the game ...the most greeks flow in the air like their team is unbeatable and then a better Team cames and played them to the wall ..even Stelios had scored for 2-2 Turkey played 600% better....

Greek team is not a bad team and Otto Rehagel is one of the best coaches in the world ok greek you havent understand anything after Greece-Turkey match.

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Turk you dont understand, and the problems are very different and the result yesterday was one of the most disgraceful in our history, and it DID come from one mans inability.

This is a COACHING problem.

Greek listen,

this is not a coaching problem....you should be happy that Otto Rehagel powered up your football..... if Otto hadnt coached Greece , Greece would be the same like 1994.

Did you saw Turkey-Greece ? I bet you saw.... I saw a technical better playing turkish team and 9 of 11 Greeks plays in the best clubs in Europe..... Why? Is this a coaching problem? NO my greek friend ..... you dont understand....

Sometimes there are better teams than Greece this means not that Greece is bad or needs a better coach or new players this is all bullshit.... Turkey has technical better playing football players you will see Turkey will also get a cup in the next years ... LOOSING AGAINST TURKEY IS NOT A SHAME THIS IS NORMAL ..... Turkey is one of the strongest in Europe .....even before Greece won the cup in 2004

the problem is : All Greeks I know gave Turkey not 1% chance to win before the game ...the most greeks flow in the air like their team is unbeatable and then a better Team cames and played them to the wall ..even Stelios had scored for 2-2 Turkey played 600% better....

Greek team is not a bad team and Otto Rehagel is one of the best coaches in the world ok greek you havent understand anything after Greece-Turkey match.

this is the worst, most exagerated, arrogant post on the forums.

Turkey was really not that incredible, its not a case of sheer domination and brilliance by any means man, take your red glasses off. And Turkey one of the best in europe? Thats a huge overstatement.

Nikopolidis was alone, under no pressure, and the ball was right at him on the first cross- why in Gods name would you punch it ???? It was right at you! And if you punch it - ALL professional goalkeepers no to opt their clearances to the WINGS and NEVER the center of the field. The other 2 goals were laughable.

Turkey were better team, but you are making them out to be superb because of this scoreline. Not at all accurate scoreline for one (after Greece misses how many open nets and posts only to get a bizarre, soft outside shot right at Nikopolidis for him to screw that up) and Turkey didnt play anything special. Greece was pretty awful, and if you really think Rehagel is still a great coach you live in the clouds. He is refusing violently to change a team in desparate need of changes.

There are so many talented players out there post 2004 who are getting hardly any chance if not any at all - and despite downright awful performances the last THREE YEARS he will not change out the players. Thats a HUGE problem, and that is NOT the sign of a good coach. Greece is still not making a future generation/squad after 3 years....that is, a pure disgrace and does not work - results and humiliations are PROOF.

Your trying to build Greece up (depsite 3 years of total misery on the pitch we have played maybe 1-2 good games)

Everybody knows Greece was awful, players were crap, coaching was crap , and goalkeeping was a total joke. With so many great in-form players (Gkekas, Torosidis, Ninis, Eleftheropoulos) being denied spots because theyre not on the original "plan" otto made 5 years ago is the stupidest thing ever - and it totally exists.

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I am impressed by GS1905, thank you for contributing to the quality of this website and congratulations to Turkey for a very well deserved win.

Otto has a serious problem and he cannot make radical reform of this team at this stage within the qualification; he will need a lot of friendlies and that is not the time to do it. He can do this after we disqualify, if he is still a coach.

So, my fellow greeks, don't believe that the squad will change. As long as these people are still alive, the same players will be called, unless they do the same thing that Zagor proudly did, declare their end from the national team themselves.

Otto and the players should know that this will not be forgotten so easily. I propose empty stands against the minnows Hungary and Moldova. Hopefully this will put pressure to epo to sack gagatsis and then the replacement of Otto will be much easier.

Only a new coach NOW can make the required changes

geok

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Everybody knows Greece was awful, players were crap, coaching was crap , and goalkeeping was a total joke.

And why so 99% of all Greeks predicted a greek win ???????

cause they play against Turkey??? Is Turkey a weak side...

What I trying to say is : Greece lost against a strong team -and every Greek is panic cause they think their team is a crap.

9 of 11 Greeks players plays in very good european teams --cause they are crap?

Have you seen all goals clearly on Saturday ? My dear friend Nikopolidis made a mistake in one goal o.k but also Turkey missed three times to score.... so if Greece and Turkey had scored all chances it would be 5:3 for Turkey -I dont want to discuss further.

I hate it now every Greek talks about crap crap crap just because they lost against Turkey....

TRUST YOUR NATIONAL TEAM - THEY CAN MAKE IT TO EURO2008 EVEN THERE ARE BETTER TEAMS::

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