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js1000

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Posts posted by js1000

  1.  

     

    The Greek bailout talks are set to hit troubled waters yet again, as it emerged that its creditors - the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the European Central Bank (ECB) and the Eurozone members - are set to demand Athens passes even more austerity measures.

     

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150803/1025343390.html

     

    Seems they want their pound of flesh, more privatisation more of Greece to be owned by creditors. These guys are insatiable they won't stop till they own it all, and in return we get a 'bailout' that will last for 3 years and the Greek people will have higher taxes, worse pensions and VAT hikes in return.

    What a great deal, we're on the road to recovery.

    • Like it 1
  2. He does talk some sense, but i certainly don't trust varoufakis, particularly as he was standing up for Mario Draghi, former goldman banker, governor of the bank of Italy and president of the European Central bank. Anything Draghi does would be for the benefit of the banks.

     

    Varoufakis seems to have friends in high places.

  3. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/03/greece-succombs-to-imperialist-banksterism/

     

    the above is the best article i've read on Greece's financial state. 

     

     

     

    At the time of writing, the national debt of Greece stood at more than ?357 billion, and government debt was more than 175 per cent of GDP and growing. The cause, according to Greece?s major creditors in Berlin, London and New York, was profligate social spending. The Greek government, they argue, took out unsustainable loans to pay for health coverage, minimum wage, decent pensions, libraries, schools and parks. Therefore, Greeks are responsible for their own predicament: The people have to tighten their belts, even if that means adding a few notches, and the government must succumb to deregulation and increased privatization; in other words, Greece must surrender political control over its economy to foreign corporations. This is the standard, bourgeois explanation. It is dead wrong.
    • Like it 2
  4.  

     

    Shortly before calling a NATO meeting under the pretense of concerns over its security, Turkey launched a bombing campaign across the border into Syria allegedly against the ISIS forces that it has supported, trained, and facilitated since the beginning of the Syrian crisis. 

    Very soon after the bombing campaign was launched there came the announcement that Turkey and the United States had agreed to implement an ?ISIL Free Zone? otherwise known as a ?No Fly Zone? in northern Syria. 

    Prior to the formal announcement of the ?ISIL-Free/No-Fly Zone,? it was known that Turkey had launched a simultaneous attack on Kurdish targets in Iraq. After the announcement, these attacks on Kurdish targets intensified to greatly overshadow anything purporting to be an attack on ISIS. 

    Thus, as Turkey whines about the threat ISIS poses to its security, fresh on the heels of a dubious ISIS bombing of a political demonstration, Turkey has demonstrated that the real targets of its bombing campaign is not ISIS at all, it is the Kurds. 

    http://www.activistpost.com/2015/07/turkeys-war-on-kurds-isis-air-force.html

     

    Interesting read for anyone interested.

  5. Scary stuff.  Arresting the governor and then appealing to Moscow for help.  Then we have Varoufakis who wants to do illegal stuff.  If this was in any western country, these people would be arrested.  In Greece, they are heroes.

    Arrested? you're joking not one banker got touched despite causing the crisis, how many UK MPs who got busted for fiddling their expenses and putting family members on the payroll and claimed money for mortgages that had already been paid off, how many of those in my wonderful civilised western country got arrested??? 

     

     

     

    Varoufakis gets a childhood friend to hack into the Greek tax system while others arrest the governor of the Greek central bank and raid the mint. Guess this plot to overthrow democracy in Greece will not result in any arrests because it was a left wing plot.

    SYRIZA have already overthrown democracy, the moment they ignored the referendum result. 

     

     

    Greek banks have reopened after weeks of closure. The patient and orderly way customers queued outside to use ATMS during the big shut down was an impressive sight, especially for those people who are fond of considering Greek people as somehow incapable of doing things right.

    But nothing is harmonious. The queues outside the job centres are as long as ever, while many of the shops that shut down at the same time as the banks, still haven?t reopened. Anti-austerity and anti-governmental protests have started to take place for the first time since Syriza came to power. Dozens were arrested as the Greek parliament voted to accept a new bailout deal from Europe, based on the very terms that were rejected just days earlier in a national referendum. Fresh riots took place as the parliament passed a law that allows the confiscation of people?s homes.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07/25/this-is-the-end-of-the-line-for-syriza/

     

     

     

    Beppe: Nationalize Banks to Throw Off 'Anti-Democratic Straitjacket' of Eurozone

    Populist comedian-turned-politician calls for Italy to exit the Euro

     

    http://commondreams.org/news/2015/07/24/beppe-nationalize-banks-throw-anti-democratic-straitjacket-eurozone

  6. As traumatic as a transition to the drachma will be, I really don't see any other option for Greece. What do you suggest, continue to receive bailouts that go straight back out to creditors and continue to lose what was previously state owned? Everything that's going on there now has happened whilst being members of this wonderful union with its generous subsidies. 

     

    What do you suggest, to continue doing what the troika demand and hope things will improve? 

  7. Athens abandoned children. Skynews.       

     

     

    this is why i weep when people demand staying in the union and continuing with their austerity programs, and using a currency where they can simply switch the supply on and off via capital controls whenever they feel like it. 

     

    At what point do you say enough? 

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  8. you want greece out of the union - which would further exacerbate our failed political thrusts at bilateral levels against fyrom (another story of nonsense that should have been taken care of immediately) and turkey.

     

    out of the eu means no subsidies for greece and a dramatically regionally politically weaker greece. so, it's an economic and political disaster.

     

    the union decides when russian aggression has halted, not the malcontent sipping his coffee in the kafeneio. we already pushed the irritation button for milosevic and made noise for putin - surely some eu big shooters are getting fed up with us.

    The union decides eh, the union also decides whether our banks have money in them for the functioning of Greece, the union decides how our subsidies are spent and the union decides who we can trade with. If the EU big shooters were that fed up with us then surely they'd have kicked us out, but they now have a Greek government that does what they say so they've got their own way, regardless of any referendum. This is what Greece are losing as part of the 3rd bailout demanded by the 'union'

    State lottery; horse betting; olympic venues; Athens international airport; 37 regional airports; port of piraeus and 100% of the shares of 11 other ports; some marinas and tourist resorts; state real estate, including on some islands; thermal springs on the mainland; Greek real estate holdings in New York, Belgrade and Washington; the public power corporation S.A which provides energy to the majority of the country.

    Others which might go as well are ELTA(postal service), 400 miles of roads, TRAINOSE(rail and bus transport) and ROSCO(which maintains Greek trains).

     

    At what point do you say enough? its not really Greece anymore is it? 

    lets see how it pans out for Greece.

     

    in a bizarre way....the kafeneio brigade want us out of NATO/EU....and Fyrom/turkey in...

     

    that way they have more fuel for anti west feelings...and they can then swing the old arguments..

     

    - they are jealous of us

    - they hate orthodoxy

    - we should have been in bed with Russia and Serbia earlier

    - it was all a contrived conspiracy because they want to carve us up..'see  told you in 1990 , Yugoslavia was the entree...Greece was the main target'...  'The Franks are always against us...since 1056"

     

    etc  etc...

     

    I've certainly not heard what you've posted from anyone, the only thing i'd like is an exit from the EU/EZ, I'm not sure how bad it has to get before even you've had enough.

     

    The Greek Government does have the capitalist know how to make ongoing money from hellinikon. What will most likely happen is the site will sold with a 100 year lease - the money of which will be spent in seconds. The way other countries would make money from that plot is for the state to have a 50% share in anything built there. Casinos, hotels, restaurants, harbour fees etc. 50% straight back to the state. Not even ND wanted to that. They simply wanted to sell the plot with any hope of future revenues gone. The only way the current Greek clowns in charge can imagine making money from Hellinikon is via the VAT restaurants on the plot will have to pay. That is the limit to their imagination.

     

    That pretty much sums it up, but are Greece even allowed to insist on a 50% stake as part of the third bailout?

    • Like it 1
  9. Whats the difference if a Greek owns something or a German.  Plenty of slimeball Greek millionaires who I don't care for.

    Nothing at all, the question is whether a private individual should take ownership of something thats run by the state and making money for the state, the private individuals nationality is neither here nor there. A bit like Roman Abramovich taking over a Russian asset and the profits going to his good self to do with as he pleases instead of going to the Russian state. 

    No one is knocking private foreign investment/investors, just objecting to the looting of revenue generating assets. 

    If a German wants to open up a chain of shops in Greece then goodluck to him, I'm all for it, its when they have control of things like airports that i object. 

     

    we are a member of a union. the union has decided that russian expansionism has to be dealt with. the option here is economic sanctions. the union is theoretically as strong as it's weakest link. 

    Correct, which is why we need to exit this union because the decisions of this union are clearly not benefitting Greece.

     

     

    until russia responds in a politically & militarily satisfactory way, we should not trade with them. end of story.

    Really? even if not doing so is detrimental to Greece? And who gets to decide what response is 'politically & militarily satisfactory'? 

    Anyone else who we should not have anything to do with because of their unsatisfactory behaviour, or is it just Russia? 

    And you talk of hypocrisy? Just look no further than the respected countries we both live in. 

     

     

    So JS1000 you're trying to figure a way for the debts to be forgiven....Portugal, Spain and Italy, not to mention the rest of the world's debts....We're special the others won't ask for the same....Stop dreaming the majority of the debts will never be forgiven!!! What kind of world do you want to live in? Argentina is still paying off debts, and look what they're doing to Venezuela....Inflicting pain, that's what happens when you don't payback my friend!!!

    Unless you're German of course, but I think the land/asset grabs that have already taken place in Greece are more than sufficient, besides do lenders not bear any responsibility? do private lenders not have any risk associated with their lending? Or do they just get rich off the interest, dictate policy to their debtors, loot assets and have European tax payers guarantee that they're fully reimbursed+interest? 

     

    Another reason why you should control your own currency

     

     

    Capital controls imposed by the Greek government are taking a heavy toll on Greek businesses,according to a new report from Endeavour Greece. With over two-thirds of respondents reporting a "significant drop in revenues," and 1 in 9 firms forced to suspend production due to shortages of raw materials (unable to buy due to capital controls), the problems created by The Greek government's action seem asymmetric as almost a quarter (23%) of firms are now "planning to transfer their headquarters abroad for security, cashflow, and stability reasons."

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-20/greek-economy-finished-quarter-firms-shifting-abroad

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  10. right...and in 1919 & 1940 greece should have returned to the uk and italy and germany and france all the arms given/sold/credited to us, because the british, germans, italians and french were in india, yemen, algeria, somalia, libya, czech, indochina, poland, hong kong, cyprus, malaysia...etc...etc.

     

    if you were around and had a computer, would you have posted such?

     

    since the 40's, we stand under the west umbrella. he never hold it, but we stand under it. we are obligated to be a good member, not some moral authority pointing fingers at those holding the umbrella. in retrospect, have those powers made mistakes? of course. did greece?  did uncle sam post on here why greece was making nice with arafat or naval treaties with assad?

    I was only responding to your observation of hypocrisy, because for the UK, EU and US to demonise Russia is a tad rich, my point is i'm happy for Greece to trade with any rogue state if it benefits Greece(the UK & US do so all the time), sanctioning Russia does not benefit Greece, being members of a union swallowing up Greece's assets(further killing the states ability to generate revenue) doesn't benefit Greece, being in a monetary union where if you don't do as your told, they can switch off your money supply because you don't even control the currency you're using doesn't benefit Greece, increasing VAT making goods more expensive doesn't benefit Greece.

     

    You seemed to justify sanctions for Russia for their behaviour but seem oblivious to the behaviour of the UK and US, who continually take the moral high ground and call Greece corrupt with a straight face. 

    The same UK who supply arms to the very Saudi's who we are told are bankrolling ISIS, they seem to have no problem trading/selling arms to them because it benefits the UK economy.

    So tell me, why shouldn't Greece trade with Russia?

    I'm beginning to think maybe Germany made the terms so onerous so that Greece could only but fail.  And then they can have us removed ... with moral authority on their behalf.  Wouldn't that be ironic.

     

    Reforms, reforms, reforms.  I'm afraid in this case, reforms of any kind won't help Greece get out of the hole.  Only growth can do that, but that was flatly rejected by the EU when it was presented to them as an alternative by Varoufakis.  I wonder why ??  Either they didn't want it work, or they don't understand macro economics.  Either way, this is not an entity I want running Greece.  Unfortunately, it's going to take more years of pain for the average greek citizen to realise the EU isn't the saviour they all thought it would be.

     

    Add to that the fraud and the fact this entity hasn't been audited ever, which is why an exit is the only option, reform will only be effective after an exit, any revenues Greece generate now will disappear down the black hole that is the troika. 

    I don't think Germany want us removed though, they want another bailout further down the line which comes with more privatisation and land grabs by their cronies. 

  11. 60 Minutes Australia: Special Investigation Spies Lords and Predators

     

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=806&v=TGwTeR8Y8Qw

     

     

    The Westminster paedophile scandal deepened last night with disturbing new allegations against former Home Secretary Leon Brittan.

    The Tory grandee was named as an abuser by an alleged abuse victim during an appearance on Australian TV show 60 minutes.

    The man claimed that, like the late Liberal MP and prolific paedophile Cyril Smith, Lord Brittan was a regular visitor to paedophile parties at Dolphin Square in Pimlico, Central London.

    The alleged victim, referred to only as Darren, said: ?He (Lord Brittan) liked boys to dress in women?s underwear and he liked to be alone in the room to punish you for wearing underwear.??

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3167647/Brittan-regular-paedophile-parties-Former-Home-Secretary-named-abuser-alleged-victim-Australian-TV-appearance.html

  12. the hypocrisy is when turkey invades cyprus and we demand sanctions against turkey, while russia - being on a recent land-grab spree and it's proxy soldiers shooting down a commercial airliner with russian weapons...now sanctions are unfair and they hurt us.

     

    we can't have it both ways, and i was talking about the people and how they force the greek govt's. hand. the same with serbia. UN & EU sanctions and we ignored them. the same with the first gulf war, protesting in support of saddam...but, when saddam was gassing his own subjects, the same protesters were sipping coffee and twirling their kombologia in the kafeneio.

    You're right about hypocrisy because no one demands sanctions against the US and UK for their disastrous intervention in Libya or for the Iraq invasion on the back of a lie or for providing saddam with the very gas we condemned him for using, or for trading with(supplying arms) Saudi Arabia who behead their own people and are bombing Yemen, or for supplying the Bahranian regime with equipment that they use on their own protestors. 

    But Russia deserves sanctions because it took Crimea? without a shot in Crimea being fired, and you compare that with Turkey's actions in Cyprus? as though it was an identical scenario. 

    You're like judge and jury regarding the commercial airliner that the Russians(or proxy Russian soldiers) allegedly shot down despite having absolutely no motive to do so. They may have, but until recorders/investigations are made public we don't know for sure. 

     

    it still doesn't make sense not to be in the EU, when they yearly gift us Billions of euro in subsidies and force us to adhere to highest standards for institutions to protect human rights. this is what protects us from our own kosovo scenario in thraki, but it appears that some of our very own EU citizens don't understand the very organization they are members of.

     

    whether we deserved to be in or not, pre-ez or post-ez, the greek govt. can not afford to take massive hits on tax revenues, pay early and generous pensions and use subsequent precious little state monies for crony public jobs. would we rather tackle this problem with the dpx. or with the euro? 

     

    as far as the 50 billion privitization fund, it is collateral, isn't it?

    Aek, at what point do you say enough, how bad does it have to become before you want out of this union, the only point i agree with is that with an exit you would probably have to kiss Thraki goodbye, however staying in and we've kissed goodbye to virtually all revenue generating assets, which makes it difficult for the state to make money, so when they demand the people make up the shortfall through higher tax inferior pensions VAT hikes you can see why its hard to swallow for the people effected. 

     

    As for the 50 billion fund, collateral seems to suggest we'll get them back, I think Wolfgang Schaeuble will sell them off to his buddies as its his KfW bank that has control of them, but we'll see, i hope i'm wrong. 

  13. these are all nice thoughts - tiny pieces of practicality, but unfortunately, they do not fit into the spiritual context that the formerly bewildered and currently angry greek citizen possesses.

     

     - if greece lay where sicily currently lays, the russians wouldn't include us in anything. this is partnership by default. the russians have done more economically for the turks in the past 6 months, then they have done for greece in 200 years. 

     

     - when you are a member of a political & economic alliance, i'd say you go along with them with sanctions when a 3rd party is looking to shift borders and that 3rd party's proxy soldiers shoot down a commercial airliner. the formerly bewildered and currently angry greek citizen demands action against a 3rd party when cyprus was invaded, yet, in this case, sanctions are unfair and they hurt us.

     

    we come off as massively hypocritical. this, not for the 1st time.

     

    the past few months have seen some very good articles from western media. a recent article told us that a few top greek officials knew greece was headed for a fiscal shipwreck even before ez days. they were drowned out as party-poopers or sacked as threats to the status-quo. it's not the ez or eu bogeyman.

     

    i do believe that once all the dust settles on this 3rd bailout, we will see debt relief. i had hoped tsipra & varoufaki could get some, but that was not politically convenient. 

    2 points, where's the hypocrisy, i've said all along Greece shouldn't be in this political union that is the EU, hence they can trade with who they like be it Russia be Qatar be it anywhere so long as it benefits Greece so don't take the moral high ground regarding Russia, the US has a tainted recent history of meddling in other countries affairs, but we'd all be thrilled if they were a benefit to Greece in someway.           

     

    Second point, as it was an open secret that Greece was heading for a fiscal shipwreck before even the EZ days then WHY WERE THEY ALLOWED TO JOIN IN THE FIRST PLACE? after all they didn't really meet the criteria set out for joining at the time. 

    Now the EU dictate terms that if you don't like, your own banks won't have enough money in them for the country to function, we saw just the other week a construction project abandoned because the company couldn't pay workers because of capital controls on Greek banks. 

     

    By the way did you know part of this deal calls for Greece to hand over 50 billion in public assets to a fund controlled by German KfW bank - run by finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble - to be sold at fire sale prices. 

    So who benefits from this deal? Because from what I see its not Greece. 

     

    Js100....You're making good points, but at the end of the day Greece owed 360 billion dollars before the new arrangements.....The debt owed to countries must be paid back, the question is....Is it better paying off the debts being isolated using the drackma, or keeping the European course?

    Lets look at it from a investors view point....Without Greece having reformed and having the proper structure, how can investors find ways for Greece to increase its revenues, so they can collect their debts faster, and be able to loosen austerity measures?

     

    Dude in an earlier post you said Germany had their war debts cancelled, suddenly debts owed to countries must be paid back? My goodness the assets Greece has lost in exchange for this debt+interest is already too much. Investors don't care about increasing Greece's revenues - just their own - through taking revenue generating assets, the Greek people can take a jump as far as they're concerned.

     

    The Greek government is nothing more than a bunch of administrators that implement orders from Brussels. 

    Referendums/elections - pointless. 

    • Like it 1
  14. to me, it's a combination of inferiority (hidden, naturally) and the delusional belief (loud & proud) that greece is important and is looked up to in the world. the belief that greece is important and admired by russia and russians is in direct proportion to the person's personal feelings about greece.

     

    my personal opinion is that the russia and the russians laugh at us, find us a comical people - the arabs of europe. always there to be exploited because we keep invoking them in nationalistic voodoo rituals.

     

    i was also right there. it all started with the serbs and the yugo wars. we try to talk geo-politics and how does greece benefit, and we get articles & responses that greek and serbian grandmothers baking cookies together at a church in chicago or an australian getting great vibes from serbs at a serb festival in melbourne. ridiculous, as ridiculous as the greeks' & cypriots' beliefs.

     

    the cypriots went begging with hat in hand - also reminding the russians that the biggest depositors in cypriot banks were russians. 

     

    no dice. 

     

    less than 2 years later, the cypriots sign a deal giving the russians access to cypriot ports. what did cyprus get in return? the russians restructure a tiny $3 billion loan? they couldn't write that off for access to cypriot ports? the russians know we are kepatades and take advantage.

    Having the 'Turkey stream' gas pipe going through Greece where Greece collect transit fees from Russia, lifting visa restrictions for Russians to come to Greece so they holiday/invest in Greece instead of Turkey and Egypt, and trading more with them selling them Greek produce etc benefit Greece, it has nothing to do with any sort of 'alliance' or 'orthodox brotherhood' or whether they like us or laugh at us, its about trying to generate revenue for Greece, which is becoming increasingly difficult under the European terms of privatisation and austerity. 

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  15. I really can't say anything to this.  You want Greece to continue the way it is and its a European conspiracy.  You think that billions of dollars a year in unpaid taxes is not a problem and the real culprits are in some youtube video your going to post tonight.  I just can't believe the Greek logic which unfortunately is carried by a percentage of the country.  No point in debating anything anymore with you.  Its the same conspiracy nonsense talk.

    I love this post, classic, the evidence presented doesn't fit your narrative of Greeks being 'uncivilised stupid lazy tax dodging etc' so rather than embrace the evidence and debate you decide to scream 'conspiracy nonsense talk' and like a child 'not debating with you anymore' (despite the fact i never once used the term conspiracy) and at no point did i say i wanted Greece to continue the way it is, i'm really not sure what you're reading.

    Meanwhile the Greek states ability to generate revenue is further diminished by privatisation/asset sales and you have no problem with that as long as pensions are cut and more tax is collected. 

    Its like reading the comments section of a British paper when you post. 

    • Like it 2
  16. Immoral, Corrupt, Troika, Swallowed, Greece, Culprits

     

    You must have a list of keywords to throw in every sentence.  Never ever have you made a comment on how we spend more than we take in.  Never do you talk about how its been a national pastime in Greece to not pay taxes.  When you go to Greece and tell them you pay taxes, they mock and laugh at you.  All of a sudden its Germany's fault we are complete screw ups and created this mess. Thousands of people in Greece have $$$ homes, $ millions in the bank and they claim poor.  But thats ok.  Greece is going down the sewer fast and if we don't "reform" now, we are going to be a wasteland which will make the current Albania look like an empire.

    The more you privatise the less you take in, is it that difficult to understand? why are the Eurocrats so keen on the fire sale of assets and Greek reform, is it for their benefit or ours? you seem to be furious with people with money pleading poverty but not too bothered about money/assets being swallowed up by the troika. the fact the majority of people turn on each other and point fingers at who's not paying enough tax or who's got the best pension or who's got the biggest house and what car they have is the reason the spotlight is not on the real culprits.

    Greece is going down the sewer, and these 'reforms' will do nothing to prevent it, same discussion a few months down the line when another bailout is needed because low and behold these reforms haven't worked, how can they, they're not designed to work.

     

    Everything in Greece is owned by foreign speculators but that's OK that's fine so long as we collect more taxes off the Greeks. What a rip off.  

    • Like it 1
  17.  

    Darn, I have to admit, the money is good, and since Greece has no money right now, I sold my soul to the dark forces that want to destroy Greece. :lol:   -_-

     

    I wonder how much longer will it take for my patrons to destroy Greece? They're at it since 1821....  My advice to them is, don't destroy it, own it. And, if history is a guide, Greeks will help you do it, gaddamit.

    I wish that was the case, the scary thing is you actually believe it. 

  18. Unfortunately some people just can't figure out that bribery, tax corruption, pensions at 50, claiming fake subsidies, took us down.  Not the tax rate Starbucks pays.

    Isn't it amazing, profit making assets that make money for the state are given to privateers and to make up for it we need to tax the people more and rot their pensions, when you talk of bribery one wonders whether its open for everyone to own these assets or just a chosen few.

    you focus on the small fry and wonder why nothing changes.

  19. If not wanting to give taxes to some unelected Eurocrat to enrich themselves is 'uncivilised' then so be it. It's immoral to pay tax to a corrupt regime. If you choose to blame normal people and apologise for the real culprits thats entirely up to you. 

    Forgive me for not commenting on one bent lawyer that's swinging the lead, but it pails into insignificance when you see how much the troika have swallowed up, sums so vast they don't even mean anything anymore. 

    We can come after the bent lawyer when Greek taxes actually stay in Greece. 

    • Like it 1
  20. Apparently we see things quite differently. Merkel and some others wanted to kick Greece out that's why they humiliated Tsipras and made even worst offers than in previous months. Like telling someone it's time to leave, hoping they'd leave. But, Tsipras didn't. 

     

    You, and many of our compatriots, have to get off the self-delusion bandwagon: we're so great, we have so many assets, we are so important, everyone wants to control us because.. whatever, blah, blah.  You know how many countries (and their people) make such claims? A dime a dozen.

     

    The reality has been, since 1821, that Greece has heavily relied upon others to accomplish important milestones that had lasting consequences*. The exception was the Balkan wars in 1912-13. It's been a long history of bad governments & self-governance. Mistakes upon mistakes, only to have people say something like, "they hate us and that's why they want to control us." 

     

     

     

    *and now it appears that reorganizing and modernizing the Greek state is, again, in the hands of foreigners :gr:

    i never said anything about 'Greece being so great' the fact is why haven't they kicked us out already? If they wanted to they would of regardless of what Tsiparas/Greeks wanted, every country has assets, just like Greece has, which is why the vultures are circling to get their hands on them, just like the fire sales to privateers happening in Ukraine right now, they've been doing this to African nations for years and impoverished the people there as a result, now they're doing the same to Greece, we've heard the narrative before, Africans are too stupid to run their own affairs, we(west/banks/IMF/etc) give them money in exchange for assets, be it food growing land be it mines be it oil.

     

    And yes reorganising and modernising(really impoverishing) Greece is in the hands of foreigners, and to what ends? their benefit or ours? 

     

    Seems like you're an apologist for the very people who are carving up Greece for their own ends. 

  21. This is where the money will come from for the "next day" in Greece:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.gr/2015/07/14/story-grafima-grexit-bank_n_7792066.html?utm_hp_ref=greece

     

    One thing that has been missed by most Greeks, including some of our friends here, is that any agreement with bailout money means that some other EU countries (taxpayers) are asked to chip in. Private or other international lenders will NOT lend to Greece, because of the country being untrustworthy.

     

    We can talk about the immorality of the interest and terms, but if you put yourself in such situation there's no national independence left.

     

    The Greek gov under Tsipras played the tough guy (or a game of chicken), but miscalcuated. They believed the Europeans would never let Greece leave as this would unravel the EU.. They didn't understand that in the minds of euro leaders (who matter at this point) Greece was not a good club member and better be kicked out.  You can not go negotiating with bravado in this reality.....

    The Eurocrats have no intention of letting Greece leave, if we are so bad and unreliable then why haven't they kicked us out already? The reason is they want to retain control of Greece and loot more of her assets, more bailout=more debt=more control=and more ridiculous demands. The US also doesn't want Greece to leave with the possibility of Moscow having more influence over Greece, they want Greece firmly in the EU and members of NATO. As long as you're members of these clubs you play by their rules. If the EU decides to 'sanction Russia' then Greece has to also, if NATO want to use Greece for any exercise then they use Greece, they got no intention of relinquishing such control.  

  22. We still need to crack down hard on tax revenue. No reason why hotel owners on Mykonos and the rest of the business aren't paying taxes. No reason how someone has 2 mil euros can claim 10k wages. Greek people need to pay taxes and the Greek tax officials getting attacked and chased away on islands is beyond bad. No matter what currency we use, we need to establish a legit tax collection agency that has powers to arrest and confiscate. Powers to go to an island and not be afraid of the locals.

    I would agree with you if Greece ran its own affairs and had its own currency, but any tax collected now will disappear down the black hole that is the EU and back into the hands of creditors to repay a debt that is designed to be impossible to pay.

    When i go there this summer i'll be paying in cash and will not be asking for receipts for anything, the less tax they pay the more money stays in their economy and the less gets swallowed up by the monstrous EU.

    You can collect all the tax possible and still Greece will need another bailout in the near future, heck even if there was 100% employment there a bailout will still be needed in the near future, any reforms are futile while we remain in the EU/EZ. 

    I'm not saying after an exit Greece will become the land of milk and honey, there will be hardship but I don't see any other option.

  23. There's a reason why I try to avoid mainstream news outlets and it's because they spew garbage like that. Had they ventured outside of their narrow minded beliefs they would know that on average, a Greek works more hours than the brits and Germans but at the end of the day they will believe whatever they want to believe. Have to say, yesterday I was skeptical but as more info comes out I become increasingly disappointed in the deal. I have to fault Tsipras for not supporting Varoufakis' plan to secretly adopt the drachma in the background. Syriza won't last much longer but I hope the next government takes the initiative that Syriza brought to the table and actually utilize it and have more balls to stand up to the troika. What they're doing to Greece is as inhumane as you can do to people. They're making us their personal debt colony and I really hope that this forces the Greek people over the edge so they can realize that this is the end road for the euro. 

    They cannot stand up to the troika and remain in the Euro at the same time, if you want to remain in the Euro you have to play by their rules, more theft of revenue generating Greek assets more austerity higher taxes, basically you do as they say. 

    They destroyed Tsiparas because they sensed he didn't have the desire to leave the EU/EZ they had him by the balls, you want to use our currency you do as you're told. 

    If the majority of Greeks want to remain in the Euro then this is the price they gotta pay. The IMF know Greece can't pay back, they've said austerity is not working yet we get more austerity and loss of assets in return for further funds(debt). Like a beggar with no dignity. 

     

    The British parliament wants to block the deal....The MPs are not keen on using England's tax payers money, to bail out Greece....Where's all the labor union leaders is Greece right now....Standing on the street corners protesting isn't going to bring Greece money.

    Hay communist and the far leftist that have destroyed our once proud nation....Why don't you guys go out and find banks that will back up Greece....After all you bankrupted the country....Try Cuba Nicaragua the Russian low life scum bags....OOOOHHHH you guys have no cash!!!! You expect companies with hard investment to play by your rules....Put this through your heads nobody is investing with you guys in power, you're turning Greece into a Eastern block country!!!

    What we need my fellow Greek brothers is round up all the communist in Greece and put them in jail....Even send them to Russia, where they can live with the other low life mob race!!!

    Im dreaming of a westernized society, a competitive Greece with all the unions and communist eliminated!!!

    you sound like a trigger happy American soldier, communism/capitalism its all rubbish it doesn't matter what system you have, if you're using the Euro you do as the Eurocrats say. If you go it alone then you can discuss what 'system' works best and how to implement it. 

    Besides SYRIZA aren't really in power, they get their orders from the Eurocrats and implement them for the benefit of the Eurocrats and to the detriment of the Greek people. 

    You can dream of a westernised Greek society, one that locks/deports those that disagree, and banishes unions. Sounds like China to me. 

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