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score line is almost the same if we'd lose 2-0. we'd still need a 3-0 victory. just go out and get it, croatian players think they're already in russia do it in a barca-psg or man utd-oly style.

As bad as we played today (we gifted Croatia most of those goals), we did create chances. If we can sure up our defense on Sunday, bring Monolas in and actually play a proper RB. I think we should win the return leg. As crazy as it sounds I don't think this tie is as dead as people think. Croatia's defense is garbage and we need to just actually believe in ourselves and push forward. Impossible is Nothing!

Hi guys. Just joined the forum, I think it's great. Lots of awesome options & discussions. Wanted to add my 2 cents after what I saw today. Putting a national team together is not easy. We saw with Ranieri that you can't just tinker with players and formations every match. That blew up right in our faces. We've had the most success from our current coach, Santos & Rehagael: they all had a closed club of players that continually got called up to play together for the Ethniki. But, I think there is an important balance that needs to be made here. I believe the Greeks who are in their best form should play; thus, you could argue having your set closed club of players is important, but the coach must also take into account current form. We saw at the end of the Rehagael era, and currently with Skibbe, that there are players in this closed club who are not in form. So this needs to be addressed properly. Obviously we don't need another Ranieri tenure; I think the lesson was learned there. But when you're facing world class players, you have to put your best out there. Maybe making the call ups more competitive somehow would actually get those who WANT to play for the national team and won't just WALK around the whole game. Some players have learned well as we can see. Their spots go untouched... One reason why we have a problem here is that many of our Greek players are inconsistent. Why? (Let's exclude Sokratis, Manolas, Zeca from this). Injuries come along yes, but how can other players in the game give 100% more often than a lot of our best Greek players? Am I wrong guys? Especially in a game like today's, one of the most important in their careers one could argue. Fortounis was playing as a right winger in the last Euro if I remember correctly. Maybe he's not made to be a number 10? This kid has some games and he blows me away. Most of the time now tho he's like a dead beat. I just don't understand it. One thing I haven't seen anyone talk about aside from the more common out- of- form guys playing on the team (Samaris, Maniatis, Tachtsidis, Vellios etc.) Is Stafylidis. He has only played ONE match this whole year. There have been 10 bundesliga matches. Most of the time he hasn't even been on the bench. What's the story here? Are we losing another of our "talents"? How do you go from playing 38 matches for Fulham not too long ago, to this? Do these guys have some self defeatist, learned helplessness psichologiko complex? Give me a whole team of Sokratis Papastathopoulo's. That's the passion I want. Zeca wasn't even born in Greece and he's yelling the national anthem and giving his all every single match. Whenever I look at our national team, I see a bunch of puzzle pieces that if we can just get right, we could be phenonomenal. I think it's there and the right moves have to be made. This however goes even deeper: our domestic league needs fixing, support is needed for our greek talents, bolstering our academies... etc. etc. The new EPO has a lot of work to do.

... and another thing is im sick and tired of greeks taking club football so serious. this is where it counts for Godsake world cups & European cups. Club football comes no where near national team football. As an ethnos we hugely have problems amongst ourselves I couldn't care less who wins the championship it means nothing when you win it with 10 foreigners produce some players.

This performance reminds me of Greece in the 80's when we'd cop 4 from the Yugoslavs and with ease as well. Time to stop with the vlakies. Maniatis, Tziolis, Tzavellas, bye bye. Have a team meeting with the rest. If you're not playing regular football, you won't be selected in the NT anymore. If you want to chase a big pay day, cool, go do that. Enjoy. Seriously.

If your gonna park the proverbial bus please have players who will RUN and tackle THAT had to be the slowest 11da we have put out. Our keeper wa terrible but those back to back stops give us a punchers chance Sunday. The back line was a shambles Sokratis was the only CB who performed KPaps and Tzavellas were bad. Both outside backs were terrible hard to pick who was worst between Stafylidis and Maniatis. Both CDM were horrrible Samaris and Tziolis should not have been starters the pair of Zeca Taxi was easy guys who win tackles and can spray the passes. I had no problem with Zeca Fortounis and Mitro we created 5 decent chance scored on one Mitro should have scored on 1/2 headers and Socratis will look back on the 2nd header. To defend takes EFFORT you dont need talent just the will to play the managers tactics and F***en excute and run tackle win headers block shots I saw ZERO of that been watching the Ethniki since the late 80s and this was as lackluster a performance as any!! Skibbe coaches not to lose we saw that vs Estonia we saw it today. Yes we were missing 4 starters in Toro Manolas Donis Mandalos but to start that horseshit group is embarassing. To have players out of position gifting goals showing no spirit...Im sorry I believe a team reflects its manager there was NO Otto fight or Santos grit never say die..this team capitulated and had no balls. Retsos is a CB why not play HIM with Kpaps and Sokratis and play Lykogiannis RB who is used to going touchline to touchline as a LB ( dont use he is left footed Toro patrolled the LB position) he is miles better than Maniatis. Im sorry Giannotas Pelkas help on the outside and you can play Zeca in the midle of the park where he is more comfortable . Tachsi is slow but not slower thn Tziolis and he plays te ball way better than any #6 we have. Why isnt Bouchalakis on this squad! Why is Gianniotis from Atromitos not here having agreat year. TO the EPO now DROPEE that Tzavellas and Maniatis still get called after the fiasco in Brasil with the PAOK OLY bullshit!! Those 2 should have been gone right there instead they are inour lineup in a HUGE game. We never bleed the young ones instead when will we learn. Karnezis Stafylidis not playing 1st team football and it shows Samaris barely playing and it shows Kapino not playing CALLED up WHY..where is the backbone the fish smells from the head...if you dont play WHY are you being CALLED up. Worst part is I still have hope that an early goal in Athens..and ya never know..going to watch this disaster again this time with Englis announcers.

Mate the game was over with that karnezis blunder! To be down 1-0 after the first 15 minutes doesn't work for us! I actually don't know why we didn't play a diamond 5-4-1

That is my point bro. People were dying for Santos to sub Katsouranis and Karagounis off. And we really havent created one midfielder half as decent as them. Samaris trully came close but he is not the type of 6 Katsouranis was. He can't create from the back.

Why wasn't Zeca on Modric the whole game? I remember when Zeca was marking Pjanic in the Bosnia game. The coach is crumbling in the worst of times.

The dark days are upon us but it's how dark the epo want to make it! They need to invest more money into the nt including a better coach and coaching staff! If santos has a crap campaign at this World Cup I see him coming back to coach the nt! Which is ok for a quick fix however not good for the long run! We need to qualify for the euro and have a decent tournament! No excuses!

Well you guys know what they say. New year new me and shiet. We currently can't hope for a success. We can only hope for a buildup process. Frankly ask a few of the players to retire like Maniatis , Tziolis (honest opinion these are the only ones who were undeserved). Also kick a few players who really don't deserve a call up until they do (Diamantakos,Vellios,Bakasetas,Oikonomou are a few). Take a new coach, introduce Holebas back since he got a couple of years left in him and add young kids on the wings. Teach them to help their fullback in their lane with defence and voila. I am currently HOPING to see such a NT in the Euro Qualifiers and let them end 3rd or 4th it doesn't matter. Use players who play the game and are thristy for glory and recognition. Also stop overanalyzing it. It was honestly just a bad match. The fact that it was such a terrible performance since 2012 really tells me only one thing "we are not that bad". And I trully believe it. We are not as bad as a team conceding 4 to a Croatia. But this is sport and such things happen. If Skibbe was as idiot as u re all opposing he would ve failed in the matches vs Belgium and Bosnia. In 4 matches he proved to be above expectation (because honestly , only a few non-Greeks expected us to finish 2nd). In one match we lost. It's all a part of the sport mates. And Croatia might not be Brazil but they sure as hell played like it yesterday.

pes ta

Putting up Maniatis vs. Perisic was the biggest mistake. If anything should have put Retsos as RB which have nullified attack on the wings but at least have a chance to shut that side down. Torosidis being out was a huge loss in the battle to keep Perisic under control. Tzav doesn't bother me but that should've been Holebas's spot. I wish we just kept Santos and we would've had Holebas starting and Santos at least understands Greek football coaching in the league for years. Though we can't take it away. This was a solid campaign besides a 30 minute hickup that made us likely lose it all.

I'd take Ouzounidis as NT coach a MILLION times over Skibbe. At least he can set up a team on the pitch. Ouzounidis should be our next NT coach. Time to start a petition.

Skibbe is incompetent and worse than that inflexible (or possibly lazy). Tziolis in the middle of the park ? Are you serious ?!?! Against a Croatia who you know will force you to run all day. Tziolis who can't run or tackle is meant to do what exactly ? And we have Basaketas, who is the rotation/backup for Lazaros at AEK, but here at the Ethniki it's the other way around ?!?! Has Skibbe even watched any AEK games this year ?

Well i was worried about this one getting out of hand and it did. Didnt watch the game but was able to watch Sunday and now theres no point. Karnezis being a back up at Watford this year showed , what a tragic mistake to start the thrashing. It appears Maniatis was useless in that position and was exploited regularly. Would be interesting to see Karnezis PK stats it gotta be 0 for 11 in his career. There seems to be some optimistic guys here thinking its possible on Sunday lol

regarding coaches - the brilliance of otto was he 100% maxed out the "talent" we had by employing a system that put the players in the best position to succeed based on their strengths. STEP 2: HIS evaluation of the talent was accurate and his evlauation of what players would execute his vision was accurate. STEP 3: the players all bought in to his approach. STEP 4: He made the necessary adjustments as needed, rather than wholesale changes. Santos to a lesser degree, but he coached in Greece for a lon gtime so his assessment included up close knowledge of the greek game and gree mentality.... skibbe to me, although he give a good interview, seems far removed from both of these elements.

gentlemen, its not over.......Its UNLIKELY that we go through, but its not impossible. I try to be objective. There is no reason why croats cant throw up a "stinker" game....sitting here saying " there is no way we can win 3-0 , well you are not going out on a limb with that opinion. Thats the safe, pessimistic opinion. (and again, it might be what happens) BUT...........one thing is clear...a few guys said it ealier.....if we dont go full out and attack, then the odds of a 3-0 win are almost ZERO. If we go full out on attack, then we have as good a chance of scoring a goal or two. There back line looked awful, even with our MORE awful offensive display. If betting sports was so easy we would all be millionaires. Look what happen yesterday. All the "experts" predicted a low scoring game, defensive tight struggle and look what happened. Dont be surprised if we go up 3-0 and then eat a stupid goal to get eliminated because we then try to protect the lead and do what we did yesterday ......

Even that game against Belgium, the 1-2 loss, I came out of that satisfied. Because they played their hearts out. Belgium has world class guys too I think if Skibbe plays his cards right we can get an early lead. If we get up early, get them stressed out and frustrated, it's possible guys. We put Zeca on Modric the whole game - Kourbelis on Rakitic the whole game - put Staf & Torosidis tight on their wingers the whole game. They wont be able to put anything together except long balls forward.

if they go out there finally with some passion they'd score 2 goals in the first half. croatian defence looked atrocious yesterday and in an arguably shitty game from us, we had quite a few chances to score at least one more goal. im sure we'll find more opportunities at home but we'll have to exploit them.

Welcome to the forum! It's certainly possible, though I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Lucescu if the team improves. I just don't want the yearly circus to continue. Savvidis must have seen how much better it was last year when we stuck with a coach through the tough times. Mistakidis is now about 3 weeks out from his return. Frankly I thought he'd be back by now, but better late than never.

Croatia were at a different class to Greece. A complete different level. Croatia have players whom are playing regular for FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan etc while Greece’s players with the exception of Sokratis Papastathopoulos & Kostas Manolas are currently at smaller clubs & most not playing regular if any football.

I'll say we win, but not by enough. Enough to restore some pride. We got embarrassed today in Zagreb.

Don't understand Skibbe. Then again maybe I'm wrong but I don't understand the concept of selecting players that aren't playing regularly. The only guy that probably gets a pass is Mitroglou since the other strikers behind him are just pathetic. Karnezis : Failed to control a back pass like he's a junior. But it is his fault ? He hasn't played a competitive match since joining Watford. He went from playing 90 minutes every week in the Serie A to just training. And we wonder why he failed to control a basic pass. His pay packet is rocking it though. Retsos : Should have played at RB. Maniatis : Can't play at this level anymore. Stafylidis : Has played 10 minutes of competitive football with Augsburg. Love the kid. I think he's a gun. Should've been told to find a team and get regular playing time. Then we wonder why he tries to do a back pass to Karnezis with his stomach. Tzavellas : Can't play at this level anymore. Tziolis : Can't play at this level anymore. Hasn't been at the level required for years. Samaris : Should not be starting in this game. Estonia level at best. Hasn't played good football in over 12 months. No idea why Kourbelis isn't getting a look in. I would've started him alongside Zeca and K. Paps in the middle. Instruct all 3 I want god dam f**king bone crunching tackles or I'll sub them off. Tachs to come in the second half when the tempo settles. Up front, throw on Lazaros and play with Fortounis and Mitroglou. What more does this guy have to do to get a run. At least he can run with the ball and possibly create something. No idea why half of the squad are even in there. Diamantakos, Bakasetas, Lykogiannis. Where is Siovas ? The guy should be in the squad at the very least. The squad needs a clean out. I want Ouzounidis to be the next NT manager.

Our midfield is atrotious and it is time to broaden our view and open our mind to what else we had out there. You cannot tell me that Fetfatzidis would be have been more useless than Fortounis or have been a worse sub than Bakasetas. We are so lacking on attacking midfield and on the wings how can we systematically ignore players that can offer some skill and creativity?

I am still steaming, we looked like a laughing stock. All the other ties will be closely contested. Our coach today coached like it was a friendly. The formation, starting Maniatis and Samaris. His substitutes throwing in Bakasetas who is brutal.

Maybe if donis was healthy there could have been a shot.. banking on bakasetas,gianniotas or lazaros is a bit ridiculous though. They r very average players. We r F***ed

we lost the psychological battle by conceding early. The Croats wanted open balla and they got it. We obviously were playing to shut the game down - which we are usually successful at doing. they were hammering that flank that Maniatis was defending. They knew he was the weakest link. A Torosidis and Manolas I assure u none of that would have happened.

Greece can win 3-0 if the players can take the biggest risk to attack. Thing is our attack is very limited. Only Mitroglou proves offense, maybe Gianniotas. We need a miracle guys!

No other team will get blown out like this in any game of the playoffs ffs. I'm speechless... The fact that we were down 4-1 and Our retarded coach didn't bring on Laz or Giannatos or Pelkas to try and create a goal is mind blowing... wtf is he thinking??

Skibbe has to go. Tziolis and tzavellas are not even close to the quality needed and both r fu kin lazy. We just don’t have any midfield players who want the ball and can distribute. NONE! Fortounis’s spot behind mitroglou has to be taken away . He doesn’t run and doesn’t have the skill to be able to play lazy. Greece is at a huge crossroads...team has very few REAL players coming up. Donis,retsos look great. But we lack wide defenders and central midfielders badly. We miss a karagounis type player to go get the ball and distribute. These lazy F***s show zero passion for their country’s minus a couple players. Things don’t look good

I will bet that Skibee will field this squad in Piraeus. Anestis Manolas Papastathopoulos Retsos Stafylidis Lazaros Zeca Tachtsidis Fourtounis Mitroglou Gianniotis

The future looks bright with Donis Stafylidis(if he decides to step up his career and go to a team that respects him and doesn't ditch him because he wanted a big club signing) Retsos Pelkas Fortounis Manolas and Sokratis and of course Mitroglou will all be here in the next Euro and World Cup maybe. Our lack of decent holding midfielders since the Karagounis and Katsouranis duo is ridiculously visible 3 years after their exit from the NT. And yet 2 years before that you were all crying for Santos to Start promising Tachtsidis, talented Fetfatzidis. Where are they now? This defeat is not because of the coach. Cry all u want about Skibbe but Mourinho comming wouldn't prevent these brutal mistakes. For this defeat only the players can be held accountable. Sure. We could have had someone else over Tziolis in the midfield and obviously Bakakis over Maniatis but how much different would the team look. I tell u not a bit. We went there having shat our pants. We treated this match as the "match of our life" and that's what you get a 50/50 , either kill or be killed. Croatia is not even close to as good as the score indicates. To be fair, and call me m@!@k@ I find it more possible for us to win them 3-0 in Athens than conceding 4 to them. I will be happy if we snap a win and then hope for a good group for the upcomming Euros, so that we can scrap some points and improve our ranking.

it's alright. come back of the year baby. 3-0 hellas next game pame!

I asked my wife what would be score today. She said I see 5 ! I bet a 4-1 score and made $68! Thanks koukli mou!

Go fook yourself, Come back when you actually have some silver wear, which will be never. Lets take a look at Croatias trophy cabinet!

Nothing worked tonight. You people wanna blame Skibbe ? Tzavellas ? Maniatis ? Im sorta with u. But nothing went our wa. Karnezis mistake and conceding 3 in one half is really something none of u expected and even Skibbe didn't think his team could concede almost as much as they did in 10 games total. The abscences also were a factor. If Toro was healthy we wouldn't see Maniatis there who was exposed totally by Perisic and we conceded 2 goals from his side. I'd like a win in the next match. This team has honestly not played that bad and made so many mistakes in one match since 2010 that I started following consistently (haven't missed a match since then to be honest). Big losses against Colombia and Germany we looked way better than this. Don't puss out. Greek at success Greek at failure too.

FT 4-1 Shouldn't be a problem to get a 3-0 result in Athens!

Nice videos Emperor. The atmosphere looks electric! Ante, get promoted so we can see a PAOK vs Aris derby again.

Two years of a solid qualification overall and it goes down the drain in 30 minutes.