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As for the bloodsucking creditors, if you don't go begging (through your own democratically elected governmet that tells you, and you believe it, that there's money to party while not being productive, etc), then you don't have to be treated in this (currently) humiliating way, like an irresponsible child. Where is Greece's national independence when its creditors tell Greece how to eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom? This is like a failed stated, a third world country that you have foreigners being in charge of domestic affairs!!! And, this is exactly the situation in Greece right now. Decades of borrowing and wasting money bankrupted Greece. Again about the bloodsuckers of the "troika".... They agreed to lend Greece new money in 2010, 2012, with strict conditions. Now before they lend more money they want to squeeze blood. But, if Greece had another good alternative it wouldn't become like a third world country whereas foreigners would tell it what to do. Another hard truth? If you don't like the troika, then go to the international market (perhaps Russia?) to get financing. Well, Greece tried this a couple years ago, only to find out that the interest rates were 35-40%!! Why, because Greece is an extremely risky bet. So the troika lend Greece at rates up to 7%, but demanding the keys to the car and other life style choices. These are the facts. You can yell "national independence", against the creditors, this and that, but slogans don't make concrete policies that will get Greece out of this mess. PS> As I've said several times in my posts here, I'm not in favor of the economic policies of austerity when a country is in a slump. But, no matter what you do, systemic changes must happen so you don't return to the same mess. As I ..offered to pay the whole Greek debt off. But I asked, who can bet with me that if the debt disappeared today, right now, that Greece wouldn't be in similar mess a few years from now....

Bizarre. There is something very very Greek about blaming all the ills of the nation on "the left". Has "the right" never done anything wrong ? Greece was never an advanced first world economy, but it was never a third world economy either. It was always somewhere in between, and this was reflected in its GDP and general standard of living. Not as good as say the US, UK or Germany but not like an Albania, Bulgaira or Yugoslavia either. And it would probably stay that way for the foreseeable future. It takes decades to really lift living standards in any nation. But, the EU has managed to slash Greece's GDP by 25% in less than 7 years. Quite an achievement. Vote yes for more! Don't even get me started on how they've belittled us (of no real relevance in realpolitik) and their stupid immigration rules (highly relevant).

In rhetoric (or official ideology), perhaps, but in reality from ND-Pasok-Syriza, (older center parties, etc), have all governed the same. All have used the state mechanism to promote same goals & policies, tilted to their own voters. It's even more obvious when you examine the municipalities, whereas almost every party has governed, from extreme right to extrem left. A major difference between right and left parties (in the western world) is how the see the role of government--how much intervention and to what end. In Greece there hasn't been such distinction in reality. You can call it ERT or NERIT, it's all the same! :artist:

I can't vote for either. The referendum should be cancelled. The fascists in Germany have made their views very clear that they don't want to negotiate with Tsipras and they have been exposed for it by the German opposition. I am nit really in favour of SYRIZA remaining in power either. Both SYRIZA and Merkel's government should resign. Greece is never going to repay the debts. By opting out of the Euro Zone and reverting back to the drachma this will have very serious issues for many years. That's not a solution either. Samaras like his football playing namesake is finished. There has to be new leaders from new parties. The truth is that this all fantasy stuff as it's not going to happen. We are stuck with the status quo. We are stuffed either way. We stay in the EZ and hope Germany elect fair minded politicians that want to work with their equivalent Greek counterparts is the only hope I have to see some chance for a better future.

The Greek civil war was indeed about the direction of the country. But, let me tell you, since then there's no left and right in Greece, excluding the fringe parties of the KKE and the fascists, which are marginal and won't govern. All the other parties behave the same way with small variations. All use the state mechanism for patronizing. Their policies are in essence the same. Now, the interesting question is why....

Scum, commie, choke. Great to see you get such a kick out of the suffering. And this isn't the first time you've used colorful language like this. You are special. You should ask your therapist for a refund. You remind me of Nurse Ratched, especially since you used the "choke" description. Great scene. Are you even Greek ? I'm beginning to think you're a Skopian or Turk that just comes onto these forums to troll.

I dont think K.Papadopoulos will cut it in DM i know he had 1 good game against Hungary but that does not mean we play him there. We need players who can distribute the ball like the way Katsouranis, Tziolis, Fotakis, Karagounis, Basinas, Zagorakis and Tsiartas have. We also need a real number 10, Lazaros is not the person for this position im talking about players like Ninis, Mantalos and Fortounis. For 6 and 8 positions i think Samaris and Tachtsidis will be the next two players in a midfield that will be given the 'torch' by the players mentioned before the next 5-10 years. We are gifted in central defenders we have good depth although we do have a problem with our full backs there Torosidis is ageing and Stafylidis is not ready but will be soon with more expirience, but upfront we havent got that world class striker for eg. Cavani, Suarez, Benzema, Falcao. We have mediocre strikers like Mitroglou, Klaus, Aravidis, Vellios, Gekas. In the next games we need to play the striker that is in form scoring few goals players and first preference goes to those who are playing in top leagues. The wingers have to be for now Samaras and Karelis. The Goalkeeper has to be for now Karnezis if he is not living up to expectations we have Kapino and Vellidis as back ups. To sum everything up we need to find a balance of inform players and players suitable for our formation system. Even if its putting older players, in to balance the system out and slowly putting the next generation of players in for their place and so on. We need to win games like we did in qualifying with Rehaggel and Santos and keep the same system they used and try to expand on it slowly. We need more friendly matches and better training methods and stick to our defence first mentality and counter attacking football.

Samaras should go to Iraklis his home. I see him at a club like that even Atromitos or Asteras. He would surely get his form back in Greece. If he stays abroad he's not going to get playing time.

Sorry but did you even read the comments that you are quoting?! That whole paragraph as well as the 'moron' comment were directed at Samaras not you (whom I don't even know). What negotiations?! The EU only care about recouping the money they are owed, period. Their whole stance and everything that they propose revolves soley around doing whatever they can to get their money back not about helping out the Greek economy which is in dire straits. That is a contradictory statement if there ever was one?! You acknowledge that Samaras and his government failed at negotiating a good deal for the country yet you still trust them?!? What do you base this trust on if I may ask, the fact that Samaras was educated in your country and thus that makes him better qualified to lead? He is one of the elite, part of the oligarchy that has ruled Greece for decades and are responsible for getting the country to where it is today. Exactly, he was elected by the people to END austerity so there is no way he was going to accept any deal that involved more austerity measures.

Well the UK government owe me a pension, I pay Income tax Local Authority/property tax VAT(on almost everything) Tax on alcohol, tax on tobacco, tax on fuel (around75%each time i fill up) inheritance tax, airport tax, road tax, thousands in 'stamp duty' every time a property is bought, National insurance contributions, Capital gains tax, tax on savings and investments, TV license. yet they plead poverty and always want a little more while giving their corporate buddies tax breaks. I provide the state with money through my efforts so yes i expect a little back when i retire, particularly given the extraordinary wastage mismanagement and incompetence by government with my funds. Their policies are starving Greece, the wastage mismanagement corruption and incompetence throughout the EU makes even the UK government look competent. Their direction/guidance/influence/policies and structures are ones of impoverishing Greece through austerity and privatisation of out assets in exchange for loans that go straight back out to creditors with further interest. Their policies prevent countries being self sufficient(in exchange for subsidies) in order to create dependance with other EU nations. like i said earlier reform is pointless until we exit this union and currency, i just hope the Greeks are brave enough to see it through although i think they'll bottle it Agree, its not about growing our economy its about getting their money, be it through new loans or asset stripping the Greek state. http://jubileedebt.org.uk/news/imf-made-e2-5-billion-profit-greece-loans