Barred Players?

[DUDE]

Hi everyone,

I know players like Zikos and Georgatos have been effectively barred from the Greece sqaud because of an arguement with Rehaggel, but what exactly happened?

With Zagorakis retirng Zikos and Stoltidis could battle it out for a place in the squad. And while Georgatos has become increasingly useless as a left-back as he's aged, his crossing ability is still world-class and he makes penetrative runs which would provide us with the width we lack on the left, at least until Lagos matures.

BUT, with the problems between Zikos, Georgatos and Otto, these possibilities look impossible. What has happened and is there any chance of a reconciliation?

:gr: :gr: :gr:

[loup]

I asked the same question a while back and this is what I heard about Georgatos -

he was asked to come off vs Finland

he told Otto to go f hinself

he actually told the interpreter who refused to translate

he then bitched to the press about how he got taken off and got bad press about losing 5-1

Otto cam back and said that Mr.Georgatos should have worried more about not losing 5-1 than getting taken off or responding to the press

kai teleoise - that was 5 years ago

Zikos i don't know - he had 18 caps prior to Otto

One thing that all must admit - is that Otto knows how to make a TEAM - no doubt - so I would bet that Zikos is a m#$%! like Georgatos - there really is no place for Georgatos now - Zikos I agree could battle for a holding mid spot - but Katsouranis and Basinas will fill that role - so really he is not as important

Tavlaridis is the one that confuses me - he must have really unimpressed Otto during the confed cup

[Korisos]

I thought the story with Georgatos was that fiasco happened during training and not in the actual game, maybe someone else can clear that up but anyway after that game the exodus of AEK players ended and that's really when he started building the 2004 team

[aekrossoponti]

I asked the same question a while back and this is what I heard about Georgatos -

he was asked to come off vs Finland

he told Otto to go f hinself

he actually told the interpreter who refused to translate

he then bitched to the press about how he got taken off and got bad press about losing 5-1

Otto cam back and said that Mr.Georgatos should have worried more about not losing 5-1 than getting taken off or responding to the press

georgatos was not subbed in the finland game.

http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/t...q/mr/19746.html

i believe the thing to have been that georgatos was frustrated with the criticism of his game. i believe rehagel even said that georgatos was like a violinist just standing there. this infuriated georgatos who resigned from the ethniki. at that point georgatos was greeces biggest star of inter fame., etc. he said he wont play for the ethniki again.

whatever happened in the training i dont know.

as for zikos what i heard was this: zikos came in against finland. afterwards at the start of the rebuilding phase, zikos was injured. otto didnt keep zikos in mind because of that. zikos who had been a part of the ethniki before thought that he would have the opportunity to regain his ethniki spot. otto never called him up despite him having a great saison with monaco and even reaching the champions league finals as a starting eleven player. no greek has done that for over 30 years. so zikos was getting tired of waiting to be called up. his performance was good burt no call up. otto just ignored him. zikos always said in interviews that he wants to play ethniki. at some point he stopped hoping.

i dont think zikos is a diva like georgatos. from his monaco times and with aek he seemed a kalo paidi at least. georgatos i agree is a somewhat difficult character.

the thing with tavlaridis is beyond my comprehension. remember it took rehagel ages to get rid of kostas konstantinidis, who was probably the worst player we had in years.

[loup]

I asked the same question a while back and this is what I heard about Georgatos -

he was asked to come off vs Finland

he told Otto to go f hinself

he actually told the interpreter who refused to translate

he then bitched to the press about how he got taken off and got bad press about losing 5-1

Otto cam back and said that Mr.Georgatos should have worried more about not losing 5-1 than getting taken off or responding to the press

georgatos was not subbed in the finland game.

http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/t...q/mr/19746.html

My mistake

Again re Tavlaridis - what is the most strange part is that he actually got called up for a couple of games - its not like he was in the same group as Zikos or Georgatos - Otto must think that he can play a little - and then in Saudi and Cyprus - nothing??????

The most interesting part of the ethniki omatha will be what happens in central defence there are a half dozen players who may play depending on fitness and form - Kyrgiakos has had little opportunity himself _ I would have thought thathe would have cemented a spot by now

[aekrossoponti]

the georgatos issue is easy to remember.

if so, aek66 why has georgatos played all the 90 minutes in the finland game?

why is tsiartas not even in the squad? remember key aek players including tsiartas boycotted the national team until the national teams game with england.

i posted the official game report from the fifa. i also saw the whole game...

from what i remember georgatos himself declared, that he does not want to play for the ethniki anymore. probabaly he thought he was a star and should get more respect from otto. his second thought was probabaly that otto wouldn t last long. some time before the euro georgatos even declared, that he would be willing to rejoin the ethniki.

everything else seems a rumour.

i agree with you on zikos. i believe maybe we didn t need him as much in the past, as we had zagorakis, katsouranis, and mybe even basinas in his role. although i also think we do not have that many players that made it. we can t afford to not use them. now calling up zikos makes me unsure because he also isnt as great as he was two years ago and aging.

same goes for tavlaridis. who has only played 30 min against japan and 15 min against mexico in the confed cup. did not shine in these games, but no one did. apart from that no appearance. i don t understand it. we have someone like anatolakis in the squad and no place for a french league starter?

[DUDE]

stoltidis? no. we already have karagounis in that role. unless karagouni and kafes got injured, i just don't see it happening.

:huh: You couldn't get two players who are more different. Stoltidis is a holding midfielder who's good in the air, Karagouni is a skillful attacking midfielder. When Zagoraki goes Stoltidi will have to be considered. Most Olympiakos fans consider him to be player of the year (along with Ribo) so he has to get a chance.

[DUDE]

the georgatos issue is easy to remember.

during training in finland, tsartas did one his famous 40 yard slide rule passes down the left side. georgatos didn't run out the pass...and tsarta got upset.

According to the FIFA report posted Otto wasn't even manager when we played Finland!

[Irlandos]

Rehhagel was indeed coach in the 5-1 loss to Finland. It was his first game and the team may have been in transition from Polychroniou(?) but King Otto was definitely in the picture.

[Korisos]

the georgatos issue is easy to remember.

during training in finland, tsartas did one his famous 40 yard slide rule passes down the left side. georgatos didn't run out the pass...and tsarta got upset.

According to the FIFA report posted Otto wasn't even manager when we played Finland!

of course he was

he just took over from Nikos Christidis who was there for 1 game as caretaker coach (vs. Russia I believe) after Vasilios Danil resigned

[aekrossoponti]

According to the FIFA report posted Otto wasn't even manager when we played Finland![/b]

yes very strange. i saw the game live and of course otto was coach. it was his first game.

tsiartas though was not in the squad.

[Morphi]

I remember a story on an argument between Zikos and Otto.

Zikos left AEK for Monaco and Otto told him it was a mistake, that he was going to sit on the bench and never play.

Zikos did not listen to that and left for France...

[aekrossoponti]

i don t think so morphi...

otto encourages players to try their luck abroad. in any case zikos made it in monaco.

[Korisos]

Morphi's story might have something cos I remember after euro Charisteas was still not getting a regular place at Bremen and Otto publicly stated that he should leave to get regular playing time somewhere else if he wanted to become a world class striker so it seems to be consistent with Otto trying to convince Zikos to stay and get more playing time but also at that time there wasn't as many Greeks abroad as there are now

[Korisos]

one way or the another, more puzzling man-management from herr otto. otto warned antzas that his days were over on the national side for transfering back to xanthi. after a few years...now look, antzas is back on the national team and may be a key fixture since dellas looks like a shadow of his former self.

Antzas was sacked cos he left olympiakos and joined Doxa Drama in the 3rd division, at that point otto said he only selected players from top divisions not the 3rd and he's back in the top division with Xanthi hence the recall

but there are better option like Tav but otto seems to stick with Greek based players which i don't have much of a problem with unless if he starts Anatolakis

[loup]

Didn't Antzas remove himself from NT selection because of some personal issues?

I know this may be an unpopular thing to write but I don't think Otto has done much wrong as far as team selection.

- Ok maybe Kotsolis should have got a couple of more minutes, kai ti? Either way he will have to step it up huge if he is ever called upon. Keepers don't need to fit in as much s others, if he can play he can play, chemistry is not an issue.

- the midfield selection have been no-brainers - he has done well there

- up front, I like how he went back to Lybe and introduced Gekas once they got hot, in place of Amanatidis whose form was off

- plus he has rotated Mantzios, Salpigidis and Paps- recently - trying to see who best fits the team

- he also brought Samaras to the NT once he was ready

- also Darlas and Lagos have been named a few times -

- maybe he went a little too long with Zizis, and re. Dellas - that is a tough one, I think the injuries lingered and worsened worse than anyone expected. Kapsis has decided to mail it in on the club level but has played well on the NT, and really nobody stepped up to play central defence. Kyrgiakos, I think is a bit too scary for this team, they needed a clammer presence. So who then? Tavlaridis, I know he didnt' play much - but when he did play he looked like a spaz - Goumas?Anatolakis? Alexopoulos?

- Zikos? Who was he going to play instead of?

Anyway those are my attempts to defend the King

[Ziaka]

Didn't Antzas remove himself from NT selection because of some personal issues?

Yes, he had some personal problems while he was at Olympiakos. Basically someone from the Olympiakos oragnization was "doing" his wife. As a result he was shipped by Olympiakos to Doxa Drama in the 3rd Division. Since he was not playing in a competitive league, he was dropped by Otto.

Now that he is back at Xanthi (and soon at OSFP), he is back in the NT.

[Morphi]

the more that time goes by, the more one can understand why otto has been sacked by other clubs.

The way he axes some players is unbelievable.

Anyway, as mentionned previously, Zikos is that great this season (just as most of the Monaco squad). I wouldn't be surprise if he leaves France for another team.

Everyone knows that I am in favour of a call for Tavlaridis but I guess it won't happen until he leaves Lille.

[DUDE]

Didn't Antzas remove himself from NT selection because of some personal issues?

Yes, he had some personal problems while he was at Olympiakos. Basically someone from the Olympiakos oragnization was "doing" his wife. As a result he was shipped by Olympiakos to Doxa Drama in the 3rd Division. Since he was not playing in a competitive league, he was dropped by Otto.

Now that he is back at Xanthi (and soon at OSFP), he is back in the NT.

YOU'RE KIDDING! Who? Anyone well known?

[Ziaka]

There were couple scenarios that were making the rumor rounds. One was that Petros Kokkalis, the son of Sokrates was the culprit, but then there was the one that it was one of his teammates. Everyone suspected Eleftheropoulos on that one.

[loup]

Wow that is terrible - tell me he dumped the m****

[aekrossoponti]

I know this may be an unpopular thing to write but I don't think Otto has done much wrong as far as team selection.

...

Anyway those are my attempts to defend the King

@ethnikistis:

it was said the goalkeeper eleftheropoulos. some people also say kokkalis son petros had a piece but that is unconfirmed.

@morphi:

i am with you on tavlaridis 100%. zikos may be a bit old to be worth calling up now. distixos!

@loup:

i think otto made many mistakes in the team selection and tactics. most of the stuff you say in favor of him has happened after our failure to qualify for the world cup. if we would have qualified wirth the garbage football we played after the euro, except for maybe the first half against the danes in greece, would he have introduced samaras, mantzios, salpigidis, darlas, lagos the way he has now? probably not. we would till have charisteas and zissis up front with no question. we would still waist stelios the way we did.

i dont want to go into detail again as i have done so numerous times. but the qualifying campaign was a disaster. dellas injury was very unfortunate but we saw how mastermind rehagel dealt with it. this sort of proves how lost otto is without dellas and actually he shouldn t be. we have a fairly strong pool of central defenders. kiriakos, tavlaridis,goumas to name the most prominent. in denmark kiriakos was probably our best player on the pitch. he held his ground.

i dont think tav looked like a spaz in the 30 minutes otto gave him. but given our problems defensively with dellas absent we need all the players we have. i just dont see the sense in not calling up tav, who is doing great in the french league but instead calling up old anatolakis. i dont understand it. i believe he deserves a first team spot, but everybody has to agree he needs to at least be in the squad.

the midfield is a no-brainer. still otto decided to use our most lethal player in the wrong plays and thus sabotaging whatever little offense we had to offer. now it maybe too late to call up zikos. but didn t he deserve a place in the squad given he went to the cl final and has good seasons in the french league. i mean how many greek players are actually doing well in europes competitive leagues? can we afford not calling up the few we have because of stubborness?

as of late if have little to criticize because except for tavlaridis not being in the squad and his inactivity to get masmanidis, otto is doing good. just hope he keeps it up...

[levendi2000]

we dont need georgatos.. he is a dirty player. too old and fat to run so all he does is hacks legs of other players to try get the ball.

zikos is a good player as i have seen him play for monaco a few times.. but still not good enuff.. bit old too maybe 31...

we need fresh blood in the team from now.. and mature em before next euro qualifications and hopefully get in world cup in 4 years time... i think the players which can help us do that are:

mantzios samaras

lagos karagounis giannakopoulos

basinas

darlas kyrgiakos katsouranis seitaridis

need a gk

bench:

papadopoulos

georgias

kafes

gekas[/color]

sack:

charisteas - he did his job... but he if the balls not in the air his nothing lets face it

vryzas - nothing.. one goal in euro woopdy dooo

dellas, fyssas and kapsis - too old plus hardly any match time in club teams.

[thrylos]

Didn't Antzas remove himself from NT selection because of some personal issues?

Yes, he had some personal problems while he was at Olympiakos. Basically someone from the Olympiakos oragnization was "doing" his wife. As a result he was shipped by Olympiakos to Doxa Drama in the 3rd Division. Since he was not playing in a competitive league, he was dropped by Otto.

Now that he is back at Xanthi (and soon at OSFP), he is back in the NT.

If someone was doing Antzas wife, is that player still with Olympiakos? If that is the case then I don't see him going back there. If he goes back (which I think he will, it probly wasn't the case).

As far as Georgatos goes, he is the best talent to come out of Greece the last 10 years or so. He never maximized his talent because he was a prima donna. That being said, I think now in his later years he is more of a team player, but too little too late.

[aekrossoponti]

as stated before the wifebanger was eleftheropoulos, who isnt with olympiakos anymore.