Akritis_1944 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Bravo aek66. Some realism and perspective. Some posters think it's sacrilegious to criticize Otto because the man sorted us out to reach the pinnacle in international competition. The thing most of these people can't admit is that for the next 6 years after THAT Euro he trashed not only his brand but the promise and goodwill that our national team had. Those players who should have been respected internationally but after Otto's tenure was over, they and this current team are the poster boys of retrograde and anti-football the world over! Instead of doing the best for the national team to set them up for the future his vanity and preference for selecting out of form players and using inefective tactics has lead us to our current predicament. He and the players he relied on were the worst team at the 2005 confederation cup whilst also bombing out for the 2006 world cup. Qualifying for the 2008 European tournament was a false dawn as was the WC in 2010 where we were the worst team in those tournaments. You try to present some objectivity but you get beaten down by the fan boys and the uninformed. We are largely where we are now because of Otto's mishandled years from 2004 to 2010. Years ago I used to go on about him stepping down post Euro win. I was adamant then and history shows I was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MykinesFC Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Now I know how the Samaras thread got to 60 pages..... Interesting and insightful stuff on the NT from both 'sides' of this discussion, that perhaps will have a bigger readership if it was in the NT thread. As for our boy Sammy.......<crickets> ......hopefully he's in New York for rehab or something and not to retire a Cosmos player playing to 3000 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mendel Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 With the former tactics, the problems you mentioned didnt exist. Left backs wernt outstanding before WC 2014. In fact, before Euro 2012 Santos played Spyropoulos and even Zaradoukas as a left back in the qualifying matches, yet the team conceded only four goals in ten matches. Then they conceded four goals in ten matches again in WC qualification (this time Holebas, Spyropoulos, Tzavellas were the options). Our left was vulnerable right enough then too (due to the average fullbacks), but due to the overall strategy the chance of the enemy scoring were minimized. Nor was goal scoring a problem. Ethniki scored five goals in four matches at Euro 2012 against teams like Germany, Russia and the Czech Republic. Against Romania in 2013 they scored four times in two matches. It would have been impossible to qualify without a lot of goals. Greece with the former tactics managed to catch enemies off balance and score. Goal scoring is a problem now for the attacking-spirited team you wanted (two goals in eight matches, very few chances against stronger opponents). The former strategy of the NT (defending and counterattacks) meant that between 2010 and 2014 enemies had only a handful of chances to score, while we could score and win most of the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mendel Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 You say also we should play one (in ideal case two) of Ninis, Fortounis and Mantalos (point 1) and Stafylidis, Mavrias, Kapino and Karelis should start (point 11)? Just to illustrate what nonsense you are writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mendel Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Exactly, I wanted to write similar things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mendel Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) "Every opponent now knows"? Before 2014 opponents didnt know Holebas cant defend or Spyropoulos and Zaradoukas are average players? Then they suddenly knew it? They must have known the fact our right flank is stronger in attacking and in defending too because of Torosidis, if they saw a video of a couple of our games. (See also what GrkCdn wrote above about Euro 2012 and Holebas.) Another thing: The former strategy doesn't work when opponents play our system against us. Competitive losses to Albania, Ukraine, Japan, Denmark, Turkey, Sweden, Korea, Czech, Colombia, Costa Rica, Romania, Northern Ireland and Faroe Islands are all clear cut examples of opponents out playing Greece using Greece's style of play. Romania, Northern Ireland and Faroe Islands arent a good example, we didnt use the former strategy. Would it have been so, FI and NI never would have win away against Greece. Albania (2 goals in 10 minutes), Korea (goal in the 9th minute), the Czech Republic (2 goals in 6 minutes) and Colombia (an early Armero goal) did not play our system at all, they scored an early goal, in modern football often a team sits back (at least for a while) after that and tries to hold an advantage. Some of the other examples are hilarious too (Sweden possession: 56% - that shows how well they copied our strategy, we always had the ball before 2014). For example Slovakia in 2013 did sit back against us (we scored one goal, although it was lucky indeed), and tried to counterattack, yet we stifled effectively their efforts. Playing the same strategy (defense first) could of course make us things more difficult (see Switzerland draw under Santos), but what you want to bring out of this, to wit, that when enemies of quality copied our strategy, they played us out, is clearly not true. Furthermore, you haven't answered the question. Like I said, in 2004 we were champions, in 2008 we were last place. Our left flank is now exposed, every opponent now knows that attacking that point will probably result in goals. What are your solutions? It sounds more like wishful thinking that it will just disappear by playing deeper and letting our opponents dictate the game. That doesn't address our problems on the left. Yes, this is the answer to your question. If we resort to former match strategy and seven or eight players concentrate on defending, our left flank will be less vulnerable. See our matches before WC and what I wrote about this above. The greatest proof of this came against Colombia. Colombia could have played against us the way Argentina, Germany or Bosnia played us, just like they did against Ivory Coast and Japan, but they deliberately chose to play our style against us and beat us at our own game. Teams have figured out that it's the easiest bet at beating. NO. What did they figure out? They scored an early goal and they sat back then for a while. We tried to equalize but we couldnt, then in the second half they started another offensive (then we were more tired), etc. That game worked out in that way. Argentina scored only in the 77th minute (Demichelis committed a foul against Avraam just before he scored but thats another matter) - no wonder they didnt concentrate on the defense in the first half being a stronger team than us on paper. Germany in the QF and Bosnia (away loss) scored only after about 40 minutes, thats why they launched attack after attack before that. Do you think that if it would be the secure way to beat us (copy our tactics), Advocaat or L?w wouldnt tried that strategy against us? Things arent so simple. "One or even two" were my exact words. Trying to correct someone over the exact wording of some phrase after you quoted incorrectly what I wrote about you and the likes dreaming about an attacking team dominating the field is an intrinsically unfriendly thing. Their the ostensible future. Players occasionally have bad patches in form, get injured, or get so old they need to retire, meaning we'll need replacements at some point. I'm not sure what's nonsensical about having a future idea of what the team should look like or having some replacements handy. Especially Mavrias (who isnt a part of the Sunderland squad at 21, if I remember correctly) is a man of the future. The national team plays 10-12 matches in a year, a player who doesnt play for his team shouldnt be built up in the NT. We must start players who regularly play for their club. Edited August 17, 2015 by La Mendel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pash Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 One is never enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikod Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Any news on where this guy will end up? I'm getting a bad feeling he might just retire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mendel Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Samaras seems like a great guy on a personal level with filotimo. As a player, will always be remembered as the guy who had bags of potential and natural talent but couldn't put it to good use consistently. A guy who didn't really care to aim high. He's the kind of guy I would want to grab a pint with, but not someone I would build a team around. At the most on a player level he's a decent enough sidekick. Could he have achieved greatness had he been surrounded by top class players? Maybe. We'll never know because after the Man City experience, he never got his chance, nor did he push for it. Had bags of natural talent, that's for sure. I think GC22 has misplaced his understandable sympathy for Samaras as a person into defending him at all costs and against all odds as a footballer. Played for Celtic, scored a bunch of goals in the Champions League, was x-times Scottish champion, participated with the NT at two Euros and two WCs, scored at both tournaments, cca 80 caps under his belt. Cf. "he didnt push for his chance", "he is unprofessional". WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFI-mtl Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Was at the NY COSMOS game today...saw on twitter..will be signing there soon...begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekaus Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) No idea why anyone would bad mouth Samaras. He's had a professional career making millions playing the sport he loved as a kid growing up and dreamed of having. Wasted potential ? Really based on who's criteria , random fans who live an out of body experience through him ? Does he seem sad, unhappy, unfulfilled to anyone here ? The reason he didn't play for an elite World club was because he wasn't good enough for any of them to want him on a regular basis. You can't make Samaras be Messi, Suarez or Neymar and if he ran a little more at practice or spent an extra 30 mins a day trying to perfect his shooting or heading while lifting weight and drinking protein shakes in between would not guarantee he'd have a better career. You are either good enough or not good enough for the great clubs. Those teams look for the holy trinity in modern football. Pace, Power, Skill. Got to have all 3 in abundance all the time. Samaras was and is now where exactly he's supposed to be. Edited August 30, 2015 by Greekaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekaroos Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Samaras was consistently putting in good performances when at Heerenveen & was on fire early on at Man City. Technically gifted with a nice touch, good dribbling ability, speed, very good aerial game & good finisher. I thought while at Celtic he got too comfortable. He all of sudden looked bored & started playing too casual. That spark & intensity a young Samaras had was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pash Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yeah it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbxk508 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Would he have been better to come back and play in Greece, like wasn't Olympiakos interested a while back. I know he's been injured but this is really strange move as he is only 30 YO. http://www.contra.gr/Soccer/USA/pros-nioy-giork-kosmos-o-samaras.3639289.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) So unfortunate. Not only are the NY Cosmos 2nd division USA, but American Soccer does not have promotion/relegation. He is stuck in a pretty laughable league for someone who`s had success in the CL, EURO and World Cup and, age-wise, should still be in his prime. Edited August 31, 2015 by Argy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pash Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 He'll wash out of there in a year, don't worry. The talk about where he'll end up will begin again soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikitas Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 article saying that the new york cosmos rumours are not true. they say that samaras is working out on his own. http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/cosmos2.php?article_id=42290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekaroos Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Miami or Maui where he can surf & maybe have a game of soccer if the surf is down. Acting might be another option if in LA or New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akritis_1944 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Lol. You forgot male modelling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbxk508 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Now, he's not going to NY Cosmos as they can't fit him in the roster in 2015. http://www.sport24.gr/football/EllinesExoterikou/den-paei-new-york-cosmos-o-samaras.3640907.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tsamados Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Can Samaras still sign with a club even though the transfer deadline has closed? I think perhaps yes as he's a free agent, but can someone confirm? Edited September 3, 2015 by Chris Tsamados Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akritis_1944 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 He can sign for a club until September 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tsamados Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If he doesn't sign with someone before then I'd say his career is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mendel Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I hope not he did much more for the Ethniki than Amanatidis (I know he scored a winning goal vs Turkey). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MykinesFC Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 ^^^^ Indeed. His uninspired play and injury in the last 12 months seems to have spooked any team that would otherwise have had an interest in his services. It's a shame to be in this state at 30. It would be nice if he worked hard for the next few months to get fit for the January window (like Ninis did). It's never been clear what the nature of his injury is/was or whether the lack of fitness is due to a Mykonos work ethic. If he was fit, I think he could do a lot in the SuperLeague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts