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Dutch Eagle

Euro 2020 Group J - Greece-Finland (18 November 2019, OAKA, Athens)

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7 hours ago, J1078 said:

They caused a huge issue with the previous coach because Toro wasn't called up to the squad and that's why you need to keep guys like this away from the NT. 

You just striked a nerve of mine reading that... that statement alone speaks volumes about this debate

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6 hours ago, Alphonse said:

Staf is bit of a headache but we dont have any games for a while to see what happens.

He is obviously JVS's pick as captain but how far can we go with this... he's not a great CB and the other guys at LB are actually much better IMO, you cant start Staf over Giannoulis or Tsimikas or Koutris (when he has match sharpness). I think, ultimately, we need a new captain and I am sure that's not too hard to fix now days without Mykonos FC. 

BTW, I have not seen Sokratis play of late but hear many different reports

Yes I agree, to beat a heavyweight you need heavyweights in their respective positions. Retsos, Hatzi, Siovas Manolas Soc & Mavropanos in the mix for CB.

Should get 2 friendlies in March.

Edited by ausgreek

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I’m against bringing back Sokratis and Manolas. I believe we need to start building for the next tournament and beyond. I appreciate and thank Sokratis, Manolas, Torosidis and co for all they’ve done for us. It’s time to move on...

The youngsters have proven to be reliable and we should build on that. We should looking to improve the CB, RB and CAM position in my opinion. Stafylidis shouldn’t play at CB against heavyweights. Bakasetas isn’t going to be as effective against heavyweights in my opinion. Mavropanos and Retsos seem to be injury prone and until they perform and play week in and week out then I don’t see them being in contention even though I would like them to be. 

Siovas is getting old and will be 33 next year. Lampropoulos is only there because Risvanis, Goutas and Oikonomou are playing in the GSL. That’s my opinion. Risvanis would and could be a good addition at CB. If Stafy gets dropped then he can’t play LB. Giannoulis has been in terrific form there. Koutris and Tsimikas have done well there for Greece too.

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On 11/25/2019 at 11:30 PM, Dean97 said:

I’m against bringing back Sokratis and Manolas. I believe we need to start building for the next tournament and beyond. I appreciate and thank Sokratis, Manolas, Torosidis and co for all they’ve done for us. It’s time to move on...

The youngsters have proven to be reliable and we should build on that. We should looking to improve the CB, RB and CAM position in my opinion. Stafylidis shouldn’t play at CB against heavyweights. Bakasetas isn’t going to be as effective against heavyweights in my opinion. Mavropanos and Retsos seem to be injury prone and until they perform and play week in and week out then I don’t see them being in contention even though I would like them to be. 

Siovas is getting old and will be 33 next year. Lampropoulos is only there because Risvanis, Goutas and Oikonomou are playing in the GSL. That’s my opinion. Risvanis would and could be a good addition at CB. If Stafy gets dropped then he can’t play LB. Giannoulis has been in terrific form there. Koutris and Tsimikas have done well there for Greece too.

Sokratis and Manolas did alot for us going back to the Euro 2012 and 2014 wcup but the crap they pulled in this campaign going back to matches with Italy and Armenia screwed us. Had to sit and watch the Euro draw with a mediocre Finland taking our place, just so pissed with those guys right now!!

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I think they both got frustrated with our tactics and the lack of hustle with the team.  After a while, complacency gets contagious.

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The fact it's Van' Ship, and the extra hussle he expects from the players, he also can handle the egos and the players know it. That's why I would consider the Mykonos fc CB's. Does't mean they will get in either.

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If they buy in, great, if not, then they will not play.  But to have talents like them two and not call them up would not be smart. I do think Sokratis loves the national team and he spoke up bc he thought the coach was not preparing the team well.  Reports that the coach changed formation right before kick-off in the Italy game are ridiculous, especially playing someone out of position who had never practiced there. The player having to speak up and saying he is not comfortable was not a good sign!!!

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Thats true Birkly my dawg! Nothing wrong with Soc pointing out that Anastasiadis was a Bonehead. What did he and Manola do to be blacklisted for good?

Sure they ruffled afew feathers and they were rested for it. They had to be to clear the air.

Edited by ausgreek

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7 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

If they buy in, great, if not, then they will not play.  But to have talents like them two and not call them up would not be smart. I do think Sokratis loves the national team and he spoke up bc he thought the coach was not preparing the team well.  Reports that the coach changed formation right before kick-off in the Italy game are ridiculous, especially playing someone out of position who had never practiced there. The player having to speak up and saying he is not comfortable was not a good sign!!!

Equally ridiculous was the two week training camp that was completely unorganized  

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Initially I thought Anastasiadis was brilliant.  Organizing a camp three weeks in advance before its two biggest fixtures was genius.  Imagine spending all that time away and accomplishing nothing.  Not having a clear game plan, no scouting (apparently) of the other team, and watching the champions league final instead of watching film on Italy/Armenia. Soc/Manolas play for two of the biggest teams, they must have been so frustrated.  I commend him for speaking up, without that, we would not have moved forward. I am sure he made his feelings known before but in order for someone to act, he had to make it public.

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I don’t have a problem with Socrates and Manolas but they they did it was wrong and especially at that level. They should have done it behind closed doors.. the other problem I have with them is they were pissed off that certain players were not called up for example Toro, They need to accept who ever the coach decides to bring in as this is not there decision they are not a coach and they can’t walk around shrugging there shoulders if they don’t agree with a call up or make it public.. I don’t like anything that clown of a coach Ang did and he deserved to go. What happens under JVS if for example he chooses to play Manolas and bench Socrates?? Don’t you think that will cause a problem for these guys which will trickle down to the team?? I’m torn on this one. Them complaining about certain players not being called up makes lean towards the side that says don’t call them up for now..

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I hope he would not choose Soc to be on the bench. I would think a younger guy can play that role as an up and comer.

Better he leaves him out altogether in that situation.

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Seems logical!

I seemed to remember that Van Schip said he knew what Manolas and Sokratis were capable of and he wanted to see the younger options? That could imply he wants to incorporate some way Manolas and Sok in the NT. Now Ive found this article from September 30: https://www.agonasport.com/agonasport-allnews/vant-schip-counting-on-experienced-trio-for-the-future

Especially this excerption: "Initially, eyebrows were raised when Van ‘t Schip’s decision became known, but SDNA subsequently revealed that the 55-year-old phoned Manolas, Papastathopoulos and Samaris to inform them that their absence from his squad is only due to the fact that he wants to see what the young players are capable of. Van ‘t Schip is counting on the trio for future games which have more competitive meaning."

Edited by La Mendel

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I also dont think that having Sokratis as a bench warmer would work. I guess Van Schip will figure this somehow out.

Edited by La Mendel

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On 12/5/2019 at 1:43 PM, J1078 said:

I don’t have a problem with Socrates and Manolas but they they did it was wrong and especially at that level. They should have done it behind closed doors.. the other problem I have with them is they were pissed off that certain players were not called up for example Toro, They need to accept who ever the coach decides to bring in as this is not there decision they are not a coach and they can’t walk around shrugging there shoulders if they don’t agree with a call up or make it public.. I don’t like anything that clown of a coach Ang did and he deserved to go. What happens under JVS if for example he chooses to play Manolas and bench Socrates?? Don’t you think that will cause a problem for these guys which will trickle down to the team?? I’m torn on this one. Them complaining about certain players not being called up makes lean towards the side that says don’t call them up for now..

Sokratis was a true warrior for the Ethniki but since he went to Arsenal he thinks he can come and run the NT as if he's the coach. He even said after the Armenia match that they don't have the talent to go through to to the Euro's? Seriously? We don't have more talent than Finland? I cant believe he said these things to the media.. Very disappointed with him over this last campaign but he has given alot to the NT. I don't know if JVS will bring him  back especially if the positive results keep coming. 

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I believe Hatzidiakos is the perfect replacement for Sokratis. Hatzidiakos has proven to be better. Manolas can take Stafylidis place. Manolas adds pace and chasers back and actually puts a saving tackle or wins the ball. He can be very vital to the team. That’s if he has the right attitude. 

I am proud of the career Sokratis has had for Greece. I don’t think we should completely drop him because I still think he has something to offer. We could use him off the bench. 

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I hope by the time WC qualifier start we can recover and get to Pot 3 to have a slim chance. Can you imagine coming up against two OR three top nations in qualifications.

The top 13 UEFA nations are in the top 19 in FIFA. This is where we need to reach.

Short term, we should be aiming to top our group in the Nations League, establish a home field dominance and from there build on a solid WC qualification campaign where we push the favorites down to the wire. We need to be competitive with Pot 1/2 teams. Maybe with a bit of luck we can place ourselves into a big match and anything can happen.

We are rank outsiders for the WC and therefore next realistic tournament will be Euro 2024 - Soc will be 36 and Manolas 34. I think both can play a part in WC qualification, but both will need to perform. It will be their last chance to get to play at another big tournament.  

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15 hours ago, Dean97 said:

I believe Hatzidiakos is the perfect replacement for Sokratis. Hatzidiakos has proven to be better. Manolas can take Stafylidis place. Manolas adds pace and chasers back and actually puts a saving tackle or wins the ball. He can be very vital to the team. That’s if he has the right attitude. 

I am proud of the career Sokratis has had for Greece. I don’t think we should completely drop him because I still think he has something to offer. We could use him off the bench. 

Have to agree, watching Sokratis of late at Arsenal... he's not been great. Manolas on the other hand is doing great on the biggest stage of them all, the Champions League. With Hatzidiakos down, he would be good, but his attitude would need to be just as good, if I am JVS, I'm meeting with Manolas over dinner and having a good chat about what I want in the future.

Stafylidis... simply not a good long terms placement at CB, need to look at the many great CB's we can work with like Risvanis or Lambropoulos, either would be fine next to Manolas.

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2 matches won against Finland and Bosnia and you people are already saying Hatzidiakos is better than Sokratis?

 

Ease up guys you re gonna get disappointed.

Sokratis literally saved the team with his speech and you guys are hating him for it.

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4 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

2 matches won against Finland and Bosnia and you people are already saying Hatzidiakos is better than Sokratis?

 

Ease up guys you re gonna get disappointed.

Sokratis literally saved the team with his speech and you guys are hating him for it.

Did you watch the games??

Hatzidiakos is way more composed with and without the ball and better at positioning than Sokratis. His passes out from the back were very effective and even put us into dangerous attacks. Defensively Hatzidiakos can read the game very well and is aggressive when he has to be. 

Sokratis is not the same player he used to be. He was never comfortable on the ball. He also doesn’t make smart decisions with it, unlike Hatzidiakos for his age plays very maturely and has an idea about the game. At 22 I would play him for the next 10 years when fit. 

Also with Mavropanos and Retsos slowly coming back we won’t need to have Sokratis. As he is on the decline due to his age. 

I do agree that Sokratis saved the team with his speech and I thank him for that.

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On 12/14/2019 at 12:44 AM, Dean97 said:

Did you watch the games??

Hatzidiakos is way more composed with and without the ball and better at positioning than Sokratis. His passes out from the back were very effective and even put us into dangerous attacks. Defensively Hatzidiakos can read the game very well and is aggressive when he has to be. 

Sokratis is not the same player he used to be. He was never comfortable on the ball. He also doesn’t make smart decisions with it, unlike Hatzidiakos for his age plays very maturely and has an idea about the game. At 22 I would play him for the next 10 years when fit. 

Also with Mavropanos and Retsos slowly coming back we won’t need to have Sokratis. As he is on the decline due to his age. 

I do agree that Sokratis saved the team with his speech and I thank him for that.

Alright, Don't say I didn't warn you about disappointment.

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