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Euro 2020 Group J - Finland vs Greece (5 September 2019, Ratinan Stadium, Tampere)

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8 minutes ago, Jimmyp said:

Your moms calling you. Your pizza pops are ready 

Says the little Kanadezo. Ante Geia re jimako.

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1 hour ago, georgelaz said:

Koulouris seems like he's better on the ground. So someone like fetfa would've been perfect to feed him through balls but alas

Correct, @Dean97 sorry bud, but I don't agree, Koulouris is actually not that bad with the ball too but have a proper midfield feed the guy and watch him convert. In all his games with the Ethniki he has had no service, just some half chances. 

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1 hour ago, La Mendel said:

We are practically out now.

Well on paper, no. There's still 5 games left. We are 8 pts behind Finland. Finland need to loose 3 and we need to win all our games. Yeah right, like that will happen.  😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, J1078 said:

The Dark ages are back there is no kidding ourselves The Greek national team will be non existent in tournaments for years.

These are the dark ages file, we previously lost 4 games straight in 1995 but that team recovered and played football, that team would put 3-4 goals on this lost group of players. We are the worst we have ever been in modern times and we need a clean out in many areas, primarily EPO.

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3 hours ago, Dean97 said:

I don’t think he can, trust me. I’ve seen him very close, he has to have quality players around him. International level is different. He is not going to get you out of trouble. Technically on the ball he is one of our worst in my opinion. Pavlidis looked more dangerous with the few touches he had. You can tell he is better. 

If anything he should be used as an extra striker if need be in the last 15 minutes. I prefer anyone else at ST.

Atromitos is not a better team than the Greek national team and I’d say he did alright... I think we’re being a bit too hard on him. We put a lot of pressure on our strikers. Always playing alone up top with HORRIBLE service. He didn’t even get a cross to header. I hope coach puts them on crossing training NONSTOP

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14 minutes ago, Bardouuu said:

Atromitos is not a better team than the Greek national team and I’d say he did alright... I think we’re being a bit too hard on him. We put a lot of pressure on our strikers. Always playing alone up top with HORRIBLE service. He didn’t even get a cross to header. I hope coach puts them on crossing training NONSTOP

Koulouris rarely scores from headers or aerial. Most of his goals come from good runs on his part and low ground through balls. Players like Tachtsidis, Fetfatzidis, Donis can provide that kind of service. Both of his goals in France so far have been on the ground.

Edited by georgelaz

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20 minutes ago, georgelaz said:

Koulouris rarely scores from headers or aerial. Most of his goals come from good runs on his part and low ground through balls. Players like Tachtsidis, Fetfatzidis, Donis can provide that kind of service. Both of his goals in France so far have been on the ground.

Im implying not even a decent cross came to his direction. Let alone a decent ground pass in the box.

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You could start Mitro and Fortounis with Fetfa and you'd still get the same result....it's the combination of all these players that somehow transforms them into a bunch of losers. I've said before that they have to learn how not to lose first and then think about winning....that requires determination and discipline which as a whole the NT lacks. There are no leaders....when someone tells me Torosides is a leader I laugh....I picture him always bitching and complaining on the field full of drama....that's not a leader. Sokratis is a soldier....not a leader....same goes for Manolas. The closest thing we have to a leader is Zeca simply because of his work rate but he can only lead by example which is not enough.

I remember the game in euro 2012 against Russia when Karagounis carried the team on his shoulders scoring the goal and at one point when Katsouranis was pulling out the theatrics pretending to be injuried and taking his time to get back on the field Karagounis angrily dumped water on Kats' head yelling at him to get up....that's what is lacking on this team....it's not talent or a great coach (that would help for sure) it's a question of character and lack thereof amongst all these players.

I hope Schippy sticks around simply because he doesn't seem afraid to drop out of form players and try youngsters...its a good sign and the only way things are going to change with this group of deadbeats.

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19 minutes ago, AchillesHeel said:

You could start Mitro and Fortounis with Fetfa and you'd still get the same result....it's the combination of all these players that somehow transforms them into a bunch of losers. I've said before that they have to learn how not to lose first and then think about winning....that requires determination and discipline which as a whole the NT lacks. There are no leaders....when someone tells me Torosides is a leader I laugh....I picture him always bitching and complaining on the field full of drama....that's not a leader. Sokratis is a soldier....not a leader....same goes for Manolas. The closest thing we have to a leader is Zeca simply because of his work rate but he can only lead by example which is not enough.

I remember the game in euro 2012 against Russia when Karagounis carried the team on his shoulders scoring the goal and at one point when Katsouranis was pulling out the theatrics pretending to be injuried and taking his time to get back on the field Karagounis angrily dumped water on Kats' head yelling at him to get up....that's what is lacking on this team....it's not talent or a great coach (that would help for sure) it's a question of character and lack thereof amongst all these players.

I hope Schippy sticks around simply because he doesn't seem afraid to drop out of form players and try youngsters...its a good sign and the only way things are going to change with this group of deadbeats.

I have to agree with everything you said. You are spot on. Our players haven’t got character. Even in the tunnel they looked depressed and too serious. They need to enjoy themselves and play hard for the team. They need to have balls. In regards to Koulouris, I understand the service is terrible I do, but I’m looking at it differently. Like what can offer apart from poaching? That’s what I’m hoping for. He is just another Gekas I think. He isn’t explosive enough. Just like Mitroglou can’t creat something for himself or isn’t good enough to create something for himself. He does try and he does care and I’m willing for him to prove me wrong as he can score but I just don’t think he is reliable 100% and I believe Pavlidis is more useful all round.

Just frustrated in the whole team.

Edited by Dean97

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I think it's fair to say if Fortounis and Donis are playing we probably win that game. Fortounis obviously out of our control but I can't agree with the logic of not calling up Donis. He isn't fit? Neither is Torosidis, they both have played the same mins this seasons a big fat zero. The difference is we sorely lack creativity and especially with Fortounis injured you don't leave Donis out. 

Hopefully we batter Liechtenstein and Van Schipt is given the rest of this campaign and leads us into World cup 2022 qualifying.  Any slip up there and there ever revolving door of managers will likely continue. 

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1 hour ago, paokarag4 said:

I think it's fair to say if Fortounis and Donis are playing we probably win that game. Fortounis obviously out of our control but I can't agree with the logic of not calling up Donis. He isn't fit? Neither is Torosidis, they both have played the same mins this seasons a big fat zero. The difference is we sorely lack creativity and especially with Fortounis injured you don't leave Donis out. 
 

Managers for this NT have been fielding "in form" players for the last 5 years and the results have been horrifying. I will take a bench player playing and training in France, Germany, Italy and Portugal over Bakasetas, Bouchalakis, Kourbelis, Kolovos and Pelkas any day.

Donis being left out is a disgrace. He should have been starting.

I have never been the biggest Mitroglou supporter, but when he's healthy, you take him and hold the card for a super sub. 

Fetfa on the bench and not even asked to warm up down 1-0? Manager was warming up defensive midfielders and left the only player on the bench that can ask questions of that Finnish league backline. Absurdity. 

The wasted sub on cramped up Torosidis could have been used for another attacking player. That was a big blow as well. 

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Hardly anything has gone right for the Ethniki in the last five years with the exception of the team getting to the World Cup playoff vs Croatia. We are in this endless cycle of blaming the coaches for there selections, subs etc.  I think Van’t Schip picked a good starting 11. I thought vlachodimos should have started in net but Barkas was fine. The onus is on the players Bouchalakis had a chance to play in Masouras on the break I believe but he took to long and was dispossessed, not the coaches fault he doesn’t make that pass. Also Kourbelis for some reason makes a reckless challenge in a non dangerous area at the top of the box and concedes a pk. most of our crosses into the box were so bad for players at this level it’s unacceptable. Overall our side was slightly  better than Finland’s and should have got a draw at least. If Fortounis is healthy and in the starting eleven then Greece wins this game as some other posters stated as well. 

It totally stinks that Greece are going to miss another tournament it’s even tougher to accept that they could not get 2nd in this group ONLY Italy have a better team than Greece ,Let’s see how they perform the next few matches especially when they play Bosnia at home and when they visit Italy. Van’t Schip needs time to get to know the players and get ready for 2022 World Cup qualifying. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dean97 said:

In regards to Koulouris, I understand the service is terrible I do, but I’m looking at it differently. Like what can offer apart from poaching? That’s what I’m hoping for. He is just another Gekas I think. He isn’t explosive enough. Just like Mitroglou can’t creat something for himself or isn’t good enough to create something for himself. He does try and he does care and I’m willing for him to prove me wrong as he can score but I just don’t think he is reliable 100% and I believe Pavlidis is more useful all round.

Just frustrated in the whole team.

You're very harsh and wrong about Koulouris, how can you say you dont think he is reliable with his record at Atromitos and in France's top league? 21 goals in 32 matches - is that no reliable as a striker? That's a 66% strike rate... 

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35 minutes ago, Argy said:

Managers for this NT have been fielding "in form" players for the last 5 years and the results have been horrifying. I will take a bench player playing and training in France, Germany, Italy and Portugal over Bakasetas, Bouchalakis, Kourbelis, Kolovos and Pelkas any day.

Donis being left out is a disgrace. He should have been starting.

I have never been the biggest Mitroglou supporter, but when he's healthy, you take him and hold the card for a super sub. 

Fetfa on the bench and not even asked to warm up down 1-0? Manager was warming up defensive midfielders and left the only player on the bench that can ask questions of that Finnish league backline. Absurdity. 

The wasted sub on cramped up Torosidis could have been used for another attacking player. That was a big blow as well. 

I agree 1000 percent with this comment.

But Instead lets scout out all these different players and use qualifiers as a training ground

It like we are about to get eliminated and we do not even have mitroglou as a sub available to try and score

a late goal.

 

Rehagel sometimes picked players who had no team , other time (i think) he might have had like 5 players

from panathaniakos for one game.

 

There are players that could have seen the field  like Zeca , and fetzafazidis, mitroglou (if called ), that could have helped in this game

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Alphonse said:

You're very harsh and wrong about Koulouris, how can you say you dont think he is reliable with his record at Atromitos and in France's top league? 21 goals in 32 matches - is that no reliable as a striker? That's a 66% strike rate... 

At the end of the day goals matter and Koulouris has proven that he can score. In this Greece team its no good just to wait for service, you have to make things yourself and Koulouris can’t go that extra step. Pavlidis can as I’ve seen in Holland. We need to players to work, make runs, tackle etc. I’m questioning his ball skills because I don’t think he can make things happen he is good at getting on the end of the ball like a tap in, header. He is too limited for me. But he is a great poacher. 

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20 minutes ago, Dean97 said:

At the end of the day goals matter and Koulouris has proven that he can score. In this Greece team its no good just to wait for service, you have to make things yourself and Koulouris can’t go that extra step. Pavlidis can as I’ve seen in Holland. We need to players to work, make runs, tackle etc. I’m questioning his ball skills because I don’t think he can make things happen he is good at getting on the end of the ball like a tap in, header. He is too limited for me. But he is a great poacher. 

This is why Samaras was so good for us. He was able to create something all by himself and often isolated as a quasi LM/ST. I do think we have good players but finding the right formula of players and avoiding injuries is getting the thread in the eye of the needle. I think Mourinho would be an amazing coach for Greece but it's below his pay grade. 

Zeca should've definitely started. Guy always puts 110% shifts in there. His stamina is world class. Tsimikas is in form as hell and instead he starts Stafylidis who's dissapeared for 2 years. These coaches have made Fernando Santos look like a genius in retrospect but Santos understood Greek football having lived there for years and was foreign enough to be detached enough to make selections.

Our defense was relatively solid but goals win games. If you're going to play Koulouris you have to drill the attacking mid on how to feed him. That's ground through balls and get the ball to him near the 6 yard box not hail mary lobs from the half way line (I've seen this done 5x times this game)

Edited by georgelaz
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I think the mistake was trying to make this team play a possession game when its not possible. Van Schip hasen't been coaching long enough to change the football culture. Also a lot of our players struggle with one touch soccer so its going to take time. I think for us we should have adopted a counter attacking style where we absorb a little pressure and quickly transition as this creates space that we just cant do with our current midfield. Sitting Tsimikas was bad choice as he can create chances on the wing. Also Koulouris had zero ball service so cant blame him...  

 

I would have even played Koutris opposite to Tsimikas and see if that would work as Torosides is non factor nowadays. Bottom line Greece is not a place that develops players currently so why are we surprised? 

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It’s actually very simple. Play your fastest and most skill full players. Koutris, Donis, Tsimikas, Pelkas, Masouras, Vrousai and Fetfatzidis have speed. We need to utilise there speed and give them instructions to run into space and then create opportunities. Fortounis or Tachtsidis can be the providers and set up goals. You can have Koulouris ( I’m a bit harsh with him as I’m not a big fan) or Pavlidis in the box ready to score. 

Kourbelis is not going to solve our problem. Bouchalakis the same. These guys are reserve players for any of the top 10 countries. The only players that you could say could play in any international teams are Manolas and Sokratis. Fortounis and Donis would at best be used as subs. That’s the reality. 

We are lucky in a way Manolas and Sokratis are fast. The way Manolas closed down Pukki in the 2nd half I don’t think anyone else would’ve made it. 

So now we know Kourbelis and Samaris aren’t cut out for international level. Who should we replace them with? Galanopoulos? We just have to deal with what we got I guess. 

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Our defensive plan was the best it’s been this whole campaign including the friendly with Turkey. We didn’t concede the usual 2 goals in the first half as we have seen over the last 4 games. As @Dean97 said Manolas closed down Pukki who is quick and he seemed frustrated all night. At least Van’t Schip corrected the defence which especially let us down vs Armenia and ultimately costed us three points.

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We really missed Fortounis. Mitro/Donis would have been great but they are not fit. Mitro has been put in for just 15 minutes each for 2 games to help get his stamina.  Donis hasn't played a game bc he was trying to earn a transfer, which he did.  The two new guys did ok. I can see Kyriakos being that kind of leader, if he can ever stay healthy.

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I read online that Zeca was excluded because he "seemed tired". I have never seen that guy tired.. EVER lol

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17 hours ago, Lazarus said:

It's like watching a high school soccer game. A poor high school soccer game for that matter. Κλωτσοσκούφι.

 

This comment says it all.

This team can't put together 3 passes in close quarters.

Some players have trouble controlling passes even when nobody is around them. I see balls bouncing off guys legs 5 yards away from them. 

I saw times when players had team members wide open for a short pass and didn't have the vision to see them. 

Other times I see the big three on defense pass the ball back to the keeper as they couldn't handle basis pressure from the FINNS!!

Gut this team. 

No player over 25 should be playing the rest of these qualification matches. Give all the old guys a free trip to Mykonos but get them off the team. 

Something has to be done for the next tournament as this one is gone. 

Edited by jarvis1981
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I believe when the EURO 2020 qualifier is over Sokratis, Torosidis, and Manolas will retire from the national team. 

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