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Euro 2020 Group J - Bosnia and Herzegovina v. Greece (26 March 2019, Bilino Polje Stadium, Zenica)

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22 hours ago, J1078 said:

As much as I criticized the coach for the mistake to start the game I give him full credit for making in game adjustments and changing the style to at the very least give us a chance.. Hopefuly now he sees unless we are playing a superpower we need to come out with speed and creativity and not just sit back and take the pressure..

You know what, even with a “super power” I think we need to start going with balance.

Greece has shown it can’t do what it used to do in terms of being defensive, every time we try it now days we get owned. If we go out there all defence with Italy they will have a field day.

We lack technical skill on the ball but we hussle and don’t give up, teams got much hunger for success, nothing like what we have seen the last 4.5 years, time to back ourselves and look even the better opponents in the eyes instead of letting them do what they want.

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how do you define creative option... we've always had creative options. obviously tsiartas was very high level but I'd argue Fortounis, Samaras, Karagounis, Mantalos, Fetfatzidis, Ninis, Galanopoulos just to name a few all have some degree of flair to their game.

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1 hour ago, Alphonse said:

 I think we need to start going with balance.

Greece has shown it can’t do what it used to do in terms of being defensive, every time we try it now days we get owned. If we go out there all defence with Italy they will have a field day.

This is key.

Not only can't Greece play a defensive game but most teams in the world can't do it anymore and hope to get that 1-0 win. Last tournament in Russia you saw a number of teams score that late goal to win or tie.

In many sports they say that the best defense is a good offense. I think that is starting to be the case with soccer.

Italy smoked Liechtenstein. Greece can't sit back against them. They have to take care of the ball and make them play some defense.

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7 hours ago, georgelaz said:

they're 3 best players are very good = dzeko, pjanic, visca

but our 3 best players are equally as good = manolas, sokratis, mitroglou/fortounis

and then the rest of our squad is above average whereas the rest of their squad is pretty bad and a lot of players who struggle to even start for a top 4 greek superleague side (ie cimerot was squad player in greece but a starter for bosnia)

the reason why bosnia is always edged is human laziness because it's easier to see attacking stats over defensive. whenever people think of the best players they think ronaldo, messi etc. not ramos or van dijk

their defense is much weaker compared to ours though so even though dzeko is better then mitroglou their like of talent on that level makes them easy to score against. eg) how cyprus came back from 2-0 down to win.

still a long road to go but I think bosnia basically shot themselves in the foot with this game. when greece builds momentum, belief we're super hard to beat. now we have them in greece at home and we'll likely have manolas, torosidis back. if we're playing well too the stadium might be packed like vs. romania

I think you make some good points. Definitely wouldn't consider Mitroglou one of our best players anymore; at least in his current form.

Greece has more depth and overall positional quality. 

Difference is the following:

Their top-end talent is more spread out in the lineup. They have an elite striker and most importantly an world class midfielder, who applies pressure and dictates the flow of the game a easier more than a CB can.

Greece is bottom-heavy with Sokratis, Manolas, and other players who contribute to the depth of the backline. What Pjanic offers is not only skill, but also instills confidence in his teammates and coach to play a more attacking brand of football. A player like that in the heart of the formation makes everyone around them an inch taller, so to speak. When a team attacks; when they go at opponents, they tend to demolish weaker sides, racking up goals and stats are inflated. 

If anything, Greece's talented defence makes it even more attractive for a coach to play to his strengths and field a more defensive lineup. Hopefully, the last two matches were enough to instil some belief in the players and staff that Greece can be successful with an attack-oriented scheme. 

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6 hours ago, georgelaz said:

how do you define creative option... we've always had creative options. obviously tsiartas was very high level but I'd argue Fortounis, Samaras, Karagounis, Mantalos, Fetfatzidis, Ninis, Galanopoulos just to name a few all have some degree of flair to their game.

breed all those players together, they would never come close to tsiarta's vision or left foot...NEVER

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2 hours ago, tantra129 said:

breed all those players together, they would never come close to tsiarta's vision or left foot...NEVER

I got into NT during euro 2004. the actual tourny. I somehow just started watching the group stages. very unsual. So I never got to see him in action while he was going at it in his prime. It does seem like he was a class above but we still have some creative players is all I'm saying. 

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9 hours ago, Alphonse said:

Samaras was a creative option and we rode of that for years. When he stopped playing we didn’t know how to create except on the odd occasion we have guys like Ninis time in the middle 

most similar player to Samaras I think of now is Arnautovic (just Samaras was more cool headed) LM/ST combo very tall 6'4 but plays like a smaller flair player

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11 hours ago, georgelaz said:

durmisaj over koulouris? koulouris has to be way better he just hasn't been given minutes for NT

that's another misleading thing about NT stats. most players first 20 apperances are only like 5-10 minutes lol

Have a look at the difference in style. Durmisaj has more of an upside to Koulouris. Durmisaj can shoot powerfully outside the box and can score headers. He can hold up the play and pass to his teammates very well. Koulouris just scores tap ins and rebounds not that impressive compared to Durmisaj. 

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3 hours ago, tantra129 said:

breed all those players together, they would never come close to tsiarta's vision or left foot...NEVER

I remember some people here were comparing Tsartas and Tachtsidis. Different playing styles and played in different positions. Fortounis and Ninis are more comparable to Tsartas. I’m not knowledgeable about him as I stared following the team during Euro 2004 just like @georgelaz. Ive seen clips, he was very good at set pieces and had an eye for a pass. 

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2 minutes ago, Dean97 said:

I remember some people here were comparing Tsartas and Tachtsidis. Different playing styles and played in different positions. Fortounis and Ninis are more comparable to Tsartas. I’m not knowledgeable about him as I stared following the team during Euro 2004 just like @georgelaz. Ive seen clips, he was very good at set pieces and had an eye for a pass. 

tachtsidis is a good long passer through balls.

tzavellas actually in his prime might've been our best FK taker post euro. Lazaros is good at them with power and Fortounis has more precision but less power.

ninis's golden zone was so long ago that I can barely remember his free kicks.

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13 hours ago, Molon Lave said:

Fetfatzidis is among the most over hyped player in Greece. He does not bring the energy and intelligence when the game is on the line. When he was brought in at the FIFA World Cup 2014 against Colombia when Greece was behind 2-0, he did nothing to get Greece back into the match.

You can’t really use that as an example. The team were losing to an attacking powerhouse and we had an aging Katsouranis and Karagounis in our midfield. The team was playing defensive aswell. Every game he has played for Greece he has impressed. You can’t say that for many players. His ability in general can help us create something spontaneously when we need it. It wouldn’t hurt to have him come off the bench.

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5 minutes ago, georgelaz said:

tachtsidis is a good long passer through balls.

tzavellas actually in his prime might've been our best FK taker post euro. Lazaros is good at them with power and Fortounis has more precision but less power.

ninis's golden zone was so long ago that I can barely remember his free kicks.

Ninis has great long balls and vision. His shooting was powerful too. Bouzoukis is another with a decent left foot. The next big thing in my opinion. Similar style to Modric and can score from distance. 

 

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^^^^Ninis : 28yrs old and playing in 2nd division Israel, let's allow the kid to continue  his journey into obscurity in peace and stop bringing up his name as a possible call up. I personally thought calling up Kolovos was a headscratcher...I still do but after the goal I'm glad Angelo called him up instead of say Fetfatzides....and Kolovos earned more chances instead Fetfa who is all flash and little substance....we can't afford to field players who make a dribble (and solicit oohs and ahhs from fans) and then disappear the next 20 minutes. Add to that the fact that our LBs and RBs are problematic defensively so the wingers need to help out in that regard which is something you can forget about with Fetfa. That's why Angelo called up Mavrias and Kolovos ahead of Fetfa....I think. He definitely has a plan.

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5 hours ago, Dean97 said:

Have a look at the difference in style. Durmisaj has more of an upside to Koulouris. Durmisaj can shoot powerfully outside the box and can score headers. He can hold up the play and pass to his teammates very well. Koulouris just scores tap ins and rebounds not that impressive compared to Durmisaj. 

Who is top scorer in Greece? How the ball goes in doesn't matter...Im not saying Durmisaj may turn out but lets not push aside results. Greece can be a scrappy team and we need goals period. 

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Read an article from a Bosnian reporter - He basically said that Greece came to Bosnia with quite a few of their regular starters and you can see that they were rattled early on.  The free kick was scored due to a mistake by Greece not putting on a wall.  Once they gathered themselves, you can see their experience (he even used pedigree - knowing how to play in these types of games).  The truth is, at this level, anyone can shock another team on their best team.  The teams that play together a lot and genuinely have a great team atmosphere have more of a shot than a bunch of hot shots pieced together. Look around, you see upsets all the time. 

Regarding  Liechtenstein, Italy scored 2 penalties against them and they were playing with 10 men for more than 45 minutes.  Not saying that Italy didn't deserve the win, but they probably don't score 6 goals on them the next time out.  If Greece plays to their strengths, they can make some noise.  Either way, their play is so much better than it was in the fall.

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7 hours ago, georgelaz said:

tachtsidis is a good long passer through balls.

tzavellas actually in his prime might've been our best FK taker post euro. Lazaros is good at them with power and Fortounis has more precision but less power.

ninis's golden zone was so long ago that I can barely remember his free kicks.

Tsartas is the Greek Roberto Carlos

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I don’t think we should rock the boat with two many different call ups with the exception of the players that were injured of course.. From everything I’m reading and all the pics I see there truly seems to be like this team is building a bond together and you can thank Basinas and Gian, Ang for that.. you can even see the tweets from siovis and Manolas..

I’m really liking what Koutris brings to the team his speed and crosses are good. The minute Masouras came in to the game you can see his impact.. honestly between Samaris, Zeca’s hustle, Koutris crosses, Donis and either  Mitro or Kolouris we can be a fast and creative team.. Add Manolas, and Toro for some of the game and I’m liking our team again.. 

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38 minutes ago, J1078 said:

I don’t think we should rock the boat with two many different call ups with the exception of the players that were injured of course.. From everything I’m reading and all the pics I see there truly seems to be like this team is building a bond together and you can thank Basinas and Gian, Ang for that.. you can even see the tweets from siovis and Manolas..

I’m really liking what Koutris brings to the team his speed and crosses are good. The minute Masouras came in to the game you can see his impact.. honestly between Samaris, Zeca’s hustle, Koutris crosses, Donis and either  Mitro or Kolouris we can be a fast and creative team.. Add Manolas, and Toro for some of the game and I’m liking our team again.. 

Basinas and Stelios G. are already starting to put there finger prints allover this team hence the positivity and unity in the squad.

Koutris was impressive with his hustle and great crosses I really like how he is coming along.

Zeca doesn't stop running and made a vital defensive header on a cross that was going to be headed in by the Bosnian player.

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11 hours ago, Dean97 said:

Have a look at the difference in style. Durmisaj has more of an upside to Koulouris. Durmisaj can shoot powerfully outside the box and can score headers. He can hold up the play and pass to his teammates very well. Koulouris just scores tap ins and rebounds not that impressive compared to Durmisaj. 

I'm intrigued by Durmisaj.  Apparently he will move to OSFP.  

Can any Panionios fans shed some light, sounds like he has very good upside. 

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12 hours ago, Dean97 said:

I remember some people here were comparing Tsartas and Tachtsidis. Different playing styles and played in different positions. Fortounis and Ninis are more comparable to Tsartas. I’m not knowledgeable about him as I stared following the team during Euro 2004 just like @georgelaz. Ive seen clips, he was very good at set pieces and had an eye for a pass. 

believe it or not .... Taxi did have great vision, just bad execution. He has a good left, but nowhere close to Tsiartas precision, power nor technique with the ball.

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6 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

Read an article from a Bosnian reporter - He basically said that Greece came to Bosnia with quite a few of their regular starters and you can see that they were rattled early on.  The free kick was scored due to a mistake by Greece not putting on a wall.  Once they gathered themselves, you can see their experience (he even used pedigree - knowing how to play in these types of games).  The truth is, at this level, anyone can shock another team on their best team.  The teams that play together a lot and genuinely have a great team atmosphere have more of a shot than a bunch of hot shots pieced together. Look around, you see upsets all the time. 

Regarding  Liechtenstein, Italy scored 2 penalties against them and they were playing with 10 men for more than 45 minutes.  Not saying that Italy didn't deserve the win, but they probably don't score 6 goals on them the next time out.  If Greece plays to their strengths, they can make some noise.  Either way, their play is so much better than it was in the fall.

very true

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2 hours ago, HellasLEAF said:

I'm intrigued by Durmisaj.  Apparently he will move to OSFP.  

Can any Panionios fans shed some light, sounds like he has very good upside. 

That’s where most Panionios players end up after a good season, 10% make it, 90% get loaned out again lol.

 

Check out below points scoring system on Agona for player ratings as per match contributions in match

https://www.agonasport.com/agonasport-allnews/ambitious-ionikos-add-mavrokefalidis-jzlr3-el4te

Edited by Alphonse
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7 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

Read an article from a Bosnian reporter - He basically said that Greece came to Bosnia with quite a few of their regular starters and you can see that they were rattled early on.  The free kick was scored due to a mistake by Greece not putting on a wall.  Once they gathered themselves, you can see their experience (he even used pedigree - knowing how to play in these types of games).  The truth is, at this level, anyone can shock another team on their best team.  The teams that play together a lot and genuinely have a great team atmosphere have more of a shot than a bunch of hot shots pieced together. Look around, you see upsets all the time. 

Regarding  Liechtenstein, Italy scored 2 penalties against them and they were playing with 10 men for more than 45 minutes.  Not saying that Italy didn't deserve the win, but they probably don't score 6 goals on them the next time out.  If Greece plays to their strengths, they can make some noise.  Either way, their play is so much better than it was in the fall.

Congratulations for the great comeback and in general good display in 70 minutes of the game. We had furious 20 minutes and that is all. Unfortunately, football should be played for 90 minutes. I cannot say we understated Greece, as we have some kind of rivalry and full respect for the Greece team. We even expected good display from you side because of few missing players, as the new players always want to prove quality.   
But at end we have to be more than satisfied with result and probably Greece was closer to win. After 20 furious minutes and 2:0 lead we have started to believe that Greece have no attacking potential to come back. We had played on counter attack waiting for Greek's mistake that have never came. Our coach completely misjudged the game, and after red card he even did not know what to do. Leaving injured Dzeko to chase defense and huge gap in the middle with so many tired players resulted at end with huge disappointment. Anyway, this is not first time we got a lesson from Greece that football should be played for 90 minutes, sometimes and 95 😊
However, this is pretty much Bosnia new team. We have lost Lulić, Ibišević, Misimović and few other older players, and definitely we will need time to create solid competitive team. After two games, in my opinion we do not have what it takes for second place. 
Good luck in next matches. Greetings from Sarajevo. 

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10 hours ago, AchillesHeel said:

^^^^Ninis : 28yrs old and playing in 2nd division Israel, let's allow the kid to continue  his journey into obscurity in peace and stop bringing up his name as a possible call up. I personally thought calling up Kolovos was a headscratcher...I still do but after the goal I'm glad Angelo called him up instead of say Fetfatzides....and Kolovos earned more chances instead Fetfa who is all flash and little substance....we can't afford to field players who make a dribble (and solicit oohs and ahhs from fans) and then disappear the next 20 minutes. Add to that the fact that our LBs and RBs are problematic defensively so the wingers need to help out in that regard which is something you can forget about with Fetfa. That's why Angelo called up Mavrias and Kolovos ahead of Fetfa....I think. He definitely has a plan.

I didn’t say to call him up, just stating facts. Most if not all our players can’t finish. We needed a penalty and a good header to draw against Bosnia. You can’t put no substance on Fetfatzidis. His dribbling and skill is levels above all our attackers. The issue with him could be psychological. You can’t deny his natural talent. He can create something out of nothing and on his day can destroy defences. I can’t comment on Ninis because I haven’t seen him play for a very long time. If Bakasetas can have chances and do nothing with them then Fetfatzidis deserves another chance. If not then Lamprou and Chatzigiovannis should take his place. He plays for Aris now and he has been doing well. Bakasetas has the backing of the media and a good agent. He has done nothing as of late to deserve a call up or to even start. 

Kolovos proved my point as he plays for Omonioa a mid table team in Cyprus a lower level league than the Greek and scored the crucial goal. I always rated him and is better than Bakasetas. So what team a player plays for shouldn’t have to be an issue unless they are playing in ametuer leagues which dosent make sense. Don’t get me wrong to be selected you must play otherwise it won’t be fair to others, obviously. 

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