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Euro 2020 Qualifying


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5 hours ago, PAOTHEGREAT said:

I'm talking about the English premier league,   it's second to none.   What do we have?   How are our players going to develop playing in what has become pure garbage?     No CL,  and if by luck we have a team competing once every 5 years,    they will get slapped out,   can hardly compete in Europa.   We can't even afford to keep the young talent....we must sell them just before their contract is up,   can't afford 1 million dollar contracts.    Our players sold sit on the bench rotting away on foreign rosters.....a million dollar contract for them is peanuts.    What's Olympiakos and PAOKS budget 50 million?    AEK 15, PAO 2 lol.   Combine that and we can't even make 1 top 4 team budget of Portugal.    All I'm saying is we're a mess.    Now what does this have to do with the NT team?    I will leave it at that,   think about it,  and you will see where I'm coming from.

Well if you are talking about different leagues I agree we cant compare the GSL with EPL and La Liga when you have huge clubs that are generating huge amounts of $ and there payrolls are astronomical. 

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10 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

Well if you are talking about different leagues I agree we cant compare the GSL with EPL and La Liga when you have huge clubs that are generating huge amounts of $ and there payrolls are astronomical. 

They can’t even compete with teams like Vidi and Bate never mind those leagues. 

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45 minutes ago, Jimmyp said:

They can’t even compete with teams like Vidi and Bate never mind those leagues. 

Jimmy, I was speaking about our quality at the NT level compared to England's from 2003 until 2014 we have had much more success than the brits. 2004 we defeated Portugal not once but twice as well all know in there own country while Portugal defeated England in 2004 and again at the 2006 WCUP with there so called "golden generation" of Rooney, Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard a team that won nothing, which pretty much sums up what England is at the NT level for 52 years. There league is good because the majority is comprised of foreign players.

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I wouldn’t say much more success but I see your point. They haven’t won anything. But I’d be happy qualifying for every tournament to start. Winning is just a bonus. Let’s see where this campaign goes. 

 

I get it. Everyone has teams they can’t stand. Yours is England, mine is Italy. 

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20 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

England aside from there rigged win and last finals appearance in 1966 have done squat for the so called "home" of football. They are nothing. Greece have a Euro trophy and I doubt they will ever play in a Euro finals or another World Cup final!

Come on don't embarrass yourself lol

England have done more than Greece. They are regular players on the big stage, usually going into the knockout rounds. There league is the one of the best if not the best. Even if they don't make another final they are always at the show and usually go deep. 

Sadly can't say that about Greece. ☹️

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The developing of the Greek players is almost non existent. You see guys waisting any talent they have by leaving Greece and riding the bench for a foreign team and that’s why these players are consistently out of forum and rarely take the next step as a player.. This is an ongoing trend... Anyways this topic is about he Euros not who’s league is better which is obviously a no brainer.. I feel right now at our current state the team needs to decide on one style of play wether it be defend defend defend and stick with it or we have no chance in the Euros if we Continue with the way we have the last 4 years.. I can also say Mantalos and Bakasetas have been absolutely garbage for Aek and they don’t deserve a call up at all, Fetfa on the other hand who scored today and has been slowly looking good should be a no brainer.. Let’s see what happens.. In defence for @Ellada2004 I think you guys are miss understanding his point.. yes we would all like to see our team qualify as many times as England does obviously who wouldn’t but the value and the memories that a Euro win carries is next level s%$#! and you really can’t compare as the end goal is to win a trophy is it not?

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10 hours ago, Jimmyp said:

I wouldn’t say much more success but I see your point. They haven’t won anything. But I’d be happy qualifying for every tournament to start. Winning is just a bonus. Let’s see where this campaign goes. 

 

I get it. Everyone has teams they can’t stand. Yours is England, mine is Italy. 

No worries Jimmy. I hope we can knock off Italy in a few months and it will put a smile on your face.

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7 hours ago, J1078 said:

The developing of the Greek players is almost non existent. You see guys waisting any talent they have by leaving Greece and riding the bench for a foreign team and that’s why these players are consistently out of forum and rarely take the next step as a player.. This is an ongoing trend... Anyways this topic is about he Euros not who’s league is better which is obviously a no brainer.. I feel right now at our current state the team needs to decide on one style of play wether it be defend defend defend and stick with it or we have no chance in the Euros if we Continue with the way we have the last 4 years.. I can also say Mantalos and Bakasetas have been absolutely garbage for Aek and they don’t deserve a call up at all, Fetfa on the other hand who scored today and has been slowly looking good should be a no brainer.. Let’s see what happens.. In defence for @Ellada2004 I think you guys are miss understanding his point.. yes we would all like to see our team qualify as many times as England does obviously who wouldn’t but the value and the memories that a Euro win carries is next level s%$#! and you really can’t compare as the end goal is to win a trophy is it not?

Great points lets hope the coaching staff focus on defending and hopefully coach Ange does a better job with his team selections than Skibbe did (which I think he will do). If he does that and we get our identity back which is playing with a defensive first mentality and hit these teams on the counter I think will be right in the hunt for the 2nd spot when all is said and done.

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5 hours ago, PAOTHEGREAT said:

You make good points here.   Now I don't think Ellada 2004 needs to defend his points....he's a proud Greek and points out the great achievements from the NT in the past.    We're all frustrated, it's sad to see the ineptness of the EPO.  After all they're the ones that should come up with answers,   and at the moment they have none.

Yup proud like all of the rest of you and its been hard on the nerves over the last 2 years that's for sure. Hopefully things will turn around.

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Putting a limit on foreign players is a start but not enough. The whole system in Greece has to change. Money has to be invested in everything at youth level. 

My wife is Portuguese. We go to Portugal a lot and I have seen first hand because of a relative of hers who is involved with the soccer federation. The youth system it's phenomenal. Just google portuguese youth teams from the U15 to U21 since the mid 80's and you will see what I mean. They are always qualifying and winning trophies at youth level or finishing 2nd place. And this has transferred over to the senior teams. Since 1996 they have only missed out in 1 tournament. The 98 WC. Greece should copy their blueprints. 

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On 12/16/2018 at 9:22 PM, Jimmyp said:

I don’t blame any of the players. This is how they support their families. I’d rather make half a million to ride the bench than 75 grand to play. Anyone would. It’s a job. 

And what's stopping them from training even harder to eventually not ride the bench, but actually play? Being lazy won't get you far, especially as a professional football player.

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2 hours ago, LaputanMachine said:

And what's stopping them from training even harder to eventually not ride the bench, but actually play? Being lazy won't get you far, especially as a professional football player.

I agree. However, most of these guys no nothing else but soccer. they Have 10 15 years at most to make all their money before they’re done. Unlike us who have to work 40 or 50 years. If they can prolong their careers by riding the bench for extra bucks they will. If you were a carpenter making 25 bucks an hour working 15 hour days and you had a chance to go to another company making 75 bucks an hour working 8 hour days  you’d choose the latter. Everyone would. It would prolong your body. Working less and making more. 

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26 minutes ago, Jimmyp said:

I agree. However, most of these guys no nothing else but soccer. they Have 10 15 years at most to make all their money before they’re done. Unlike us who have to work 40 or 50 years. If they can prolong their careers by riding the bench for extra bucks they will. If you were a carpenter making 25 bucks an hour working 15 hour days and you had a chance to go to another company making 75 bucks an hour working 8 hour days  you’d choose the latter. Everyone would. It would prolong your body. Working less and making more. 

Your statement is flawed becasue if they train harder and smarter and are determined when they actually get thier chance to play they won’t look like s%$#! hence they put themselves in a better position to sign a big contract.. It’s well known a lot of the Greek players don’t train as hard as a lot of other nations players it’s a fact.. So in reality by riding the bench they are actually earning a lot less then what they could be making if they weren’t Lazy..

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1 hour ago, J1078 said:

Your statement is flawed becasue if they train harder and smarter and are determined when they actually get thier chance to play they won’t look like s%$#! hence they put themselves in a better position to sign a big contract.. It’s well known a lot of the Greek players don’t train as hard as a lot of other nations players it’s a fact.. So in reality by riding the bench they are actually earning a lot less then what they could be making if they weren’t Lazy..

I’m not talking about training at all.  You guys are misunderstanding my point. What I’m saying is athletes have short careers. Your goal is to make as much money as you can in that short time you are able to compete. In the end, it’s a job. You can ride the bench in the English championship and still make way more money than playing in the Greek league. Anyway, in the end it’s about money, just like we go to work to make money so do they. Most would rather make the money Samaris is making on Benfica for barely doing anything than play in the Greek league for a quarter of the money and have these butchers try and blow your knee out every week. 

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I do believe Greek players work hard. They do just as much as any nation. Pelkas is an example of this. Some say he has regressed and some say he has improved. The fact most Greek players peak too early. They play to their true talents between ages 18-24. Then they somehow start declining. Sokratis and Manolas are an exemption. They decisions some players make determine there progress. Other things like being unlucky with injuries and inconsistency play vital to a players development. 

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Just a general comment from reading this thread.

I don't believe that DEFEND, DEFEND, AND DEFEND more is the only way for Greece to be good again. Sure that's the way they played in general in 2004 but they had talent that could create chances and could score when required. It was the perfect storm and good job on the guys to get it done.

Now, however, the game throughout the world has been about ball control and attack. I thought that Greece could elevate it's game over time but instead it has been resting on it's laurels from 2004. I've seen lesser name countries like Iceland play an attacking game against teams with much more talent.

Sure you can still play defensive when required but you can't have a mentality of wanting to win every game 1-0 when you are playing the minnows. There has to be a balance that is achievable.

So I don't want Greece to sit back from the start of each game. They need to select the players who can do that and it's been mentioned 1000 times that certain are left off the team when they shouldn't.

Get more speed. Get more youth. Get more desire. Can it be done. Who knows but lately it has not worked out.

The Euro group gives Greece a chance but if they think they can get through playing 0-0 with most of the teams then they might was well just book their vacation now.

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't believe you need to defend the entire game but we don't have the players to do control the ball and attack.  Renieri tried that and we got ripped apart.  I believe Greece's strength is still their defense. What we need is some speed on the wings to open up the game when we have a chance to counter. A few players will change the entire complexion.

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Some great points here guys.

As for the Ethniki, defend or attack, what ever you wanna look at. When we play so many players out of position nothing will work. 

We have played without wingers long enough, on the few occasions we play with wingers we actually play ok so hopefully Angelos sees this as we’re gona continue to suck otherwise 

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7 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

I don't believe you need to defend the entire game but we don't have the players to do control the ball and attack.  Renieri tried that and we got ripped apart.  I believe Greece's strength is still their defense. What we need is some speed on the wings to open up the game when we have a chance to counter. A few players will change the entire complexion.

I agree with this post. A few players will change everything. That has been my issue with the team. It’s also is the fact that we never use our players correctly. Mantalos is better centrally for example. We can’t afford to play slow wingers either. 

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1 hour ago, Alphonse said:

Some great points here guys.

As for the Ethniki, defend or attack, what ever you wanna look at. When we play so many players out of position nothing will work. 

We have played without wingers long enough, on the few occasions we play with wingers we actually play ok so hopefully Angelos sees this as we’re gona continue to suck otherwise 

Exactly. Donis is one example of us playing good. Why do our coaches have to play Mantalos and Fortounis in the same line up? Why is Bakasetas put out wide when he has done nothing for us there? We need to change our formation... We don’t have many wingers as it is. Donis is one and Chatzigiovannis is another. Fetfatzidis, who knows if he will ever be called up again.

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5 hours ago, Alphonse said:

Some great points here guys.

As for the Ethniki, defend or attack, what ever you wanna look at. When we play so many players out of position nothing will work. 

We have played without wingers long enough, on the few occasions we play with wingers we actually play ok so hopefully Angelos sees this as we’re gona continue to suck otherwise 

You can forget about Angelo playing players in the proper position as he clearly said it him self when he was asked what he thought about Skibbe calling up so many players for the same position and playing players out of there natural positions, Angelo's response was "I don't worry about what position a player is because if they are a good player they will adjust to what ever position we play him so I don't care where they play in there club team" ?

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2 hours ago, J1078 said:

You can forget about Angelo playing players in the proper position as he clearly said it him self when he was asked what he thought about Skibbe calling up so many players for the same position and playing players out of there natural positions, Angelo's response was "I don't worry about what position a player is because if they are a good player they will adjust to what ever position we play him so I don't care where they play in there club team" ?

I have already stated this Ange bloke is on countdown before, and I still have the same opinion. I just need to look at his team and substitutions only once, thats it for me. He will be out after Euros, no question.

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11 hours ago, J1078 said:

You can forget about Angelo playing players in the proper position as he clearly said it him self when he was asked what he thought about Skibbe calling up so many players for the same position and playing players out of there natural positions, Angelo's response was "I don't worry about what position a player is because if they are a good player they will adjust to what ever position we play him so I don't care where they play in there club team" ?

He is right in a way though. You have to dig deep in what he said. To me it dosent make sense how Mantalos and Pelkas can’t play on the wing. Maybe they aren’t as good as they are or they have regressed. There are players that are CAMs that can play wing and vice verca. Does anyone feel the same?

Fortounis too slow for the wing. Pelkas makes bad decisions and Mantalos not the player he once was. Only Fetfatzidis can play both roles but yet gets over shadowed by Bakasetas and company. Lazaros could play both roles too. He started off as a 10 I believe. 

 

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