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athinaios

PAO League Games 2018-2019

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Most probably, we won't be starting a new thread for each league game, so I'm doing one for the whole current season. I think it's worth discussing how this team has done 3 for 3, and if I may say so, convincingly.

Against Larissa today, PAO got its first 3 points by winning 3-1, with 2 beautiful goals by Johanson.

It's a very long season ahead and anything could happen, but if we already had 6 points (as we should have), it'd be a different championship this season. I still think the other big 3 teams are stronger but we could be the surprising Leicester of Greece.

 

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So far the remaining older players and the youngsters are stepping up and carrying the weight of the shirt in a much stronger fashion than the higher paid players in the past few years. You can see the hunger in the eyes of the younger players wanting to prove themselves and going for it. There's bound to be some valleys during the season but I don't think anyone could have a expected a better start to the season considering the situation.

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What impressed me is team composer, the kids looked like 6 year veterans.   Larissa actually played a very good game,   made it difficult for PAO to find open lanes,   and had a physical presence.   Congrats to our boys,   they hung in,  took the punches,  and hit them for 3.   What's really impressive is their quality,   and we might actually have a loaded team full of world class players in a couple of years.    I'm finally enjoying to watch games this year.   The past 3 seasons were hopeless.

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You're right, it's more enjoyable to watch this team now than in the past many years. I think the players are trying their hardest, and they know that if a bad result comes, it won't be the end of the world. I just hope Donis above all handles the youngsters well. If, as it seems, PAO will be relying on its youth talent, those who deserve to play should, and not some primadona who transfers into the club. And PAO should not start to have a sell out of young talent.

I don't know if they do it by design now, but it's good that the club didn't have to face the other 3 big teams this early. It's been a confidence booster to win 3 straight games to start the season.

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2 hours ago, PAOKSYD said:

If new ownership pays all does does panathinaikos get the 6 points back? 

No chance of that happening.

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Nah, the 6 points for us and 2 for PAOK aren't coming back. But, does anyone know if PAO pays all the debts by year's end, can UEFA withdraw the penalty (one year ban)?

 

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They have to appeal to UEFA after everything is sorted.   I don't believe that has ever been done in the past but having said that, they  will argue different ownership/management.  I don't believe a strong case like this has ever been presented.

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Another good win for PAO. Team of youngsters is really geling. This is positive going forward.

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2 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

They have to appeal to UEFA after everything is sorted.   I don't believe that has ever been done in the past but having said that, they  will argue different ownership/management.  I don't believe a strong case like this has ever been presented.

I don't believe ownership will be sorted out before January.   On Friday is the general assembly,   which I believe the first 10 million from the other side will be covered,  then another 10 if everything goes well in December.   That said PAO will have new ownership holding 60 percent shares,   while Alafouzo 40 percent.   Going forward they will need to agree,  or have agreed on what amount of the capital increase will go for debts,   also the debt relief package should come into play by that time.  IMO there's a lot of ironing out that needs to be done.  If I had to predict PAO will serve 1 year suspension,   not enough time to settle things before January,  or for that matter before March.   If I had to guess,   we will see the rebirth of PAO June/July.

Edited by PAOTHEGREAT

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Another great showing today....3-0 win with 3 beautiful goals. Johansson scoring again today and having a great season so far. Kampetsis and Hatzitheotdoridis getting their first goals for PAO. A well deserved 25,000 fan attendance considering the effort so far. Just need to get rid of Alafouzos before he starts selling off the young talent (might be the main reason he's sticking around).

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Amazing. 4x4 while the team shows quality.

One thing that may be trouble is that at Larisa and today the team deflates in the second half.  I understand that it may be necessary not to push this young team to maximum, because it's not like we have a deep bench.  I think we have a cup game on Wed or Thu for the cup, and another one on Sat against PAS

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10 hours ago, athinaios said:

One thing that may be trouble is that at Larisa and today the team deflates in the second half.  I understand that it may be necessary not to push this young team to maximum, because it's not like we have a deep bench.  I think we have a cup game on Wed or Thu for the cup, and another one on Sat against PAS

I think a lot of this has to do with starting so many youngsters who are all learning the ropes at the same time....managing your energy level during a game is a skill set that is acquired through experience and game time. This should improve as the season progresses.  We'll be playing away at Panaitolikos on Thursday which should be the toughest cup game in the group stage. The PAS game will be a the 1st big test for the team to show its mettle and we can also see how Donis handles the rotation.

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13 hours ago, AchillesHeel said:

Another great showing today....3-0 win with 3 beautiful goals. Johansson scoring again today and having a great season so far. Kampetsis and Hatzitheotdoridis getting their first goals for PAO. A well deserved 25,000 fan attendance considering the effort so far. Just need to get rid of Alafouzos before he starts selling off the young talent (might be the main reason he's sticking around).

Finally we're building the foundation....developing players and the infrastructure of the club. The way these kids are progressing it will not be long before they're worth millions of dollars. 

The move to OAKA seems brilliant today....yesterday's match brought in close to 800 thousand. Comparing it to Leofors games like that brought in 120k. We're set to make around 13 million in OAKA, plus 6 million from TV and sponsorship....looking over 20 million.   Alafouzo is not going anywhere.   What probably happened is,  he got rid of the rats behind the scenes,  and now finally running a profitable organization.

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12 minutes ago, PAOTHEGREAT said:

Alafouzo is not going anywhere.   What probably happened is,  he got rid of the rats behind the scenes,  and now finally running a profitable organization.

Alafouzos (along with his cronies) is the rat....he has to go otherwise the good will the team is building with the fans through their performance won't be worth s#!t....Its not through his actions that the team is performing the way they are right now and the ridiculously low budget will eventually lose sustainability. He's done everything in his power to tear down PAO and will certainly do it again with the youngsters if he sticks around....mark my words.

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^^He has made big mistakes in the past.   That said the team was bankrupt and in debt over 30 million.   His biggest mistake was from the get go.   If you can remember he started the club with a low budget plan on 3 years.   For some reasons the course of direction changed after a year,  the budget raised brought in highly profile players,  he basically abandoned the youth movement.   What I believe happened is,   the management didn't believe that the youth could raise the club,  and pressure from within and out wanted a winner now.   For me that was the bad turning point of the club,  and instead of moving the club towards being debt free,   the debts accumulated to heights not sustainable.   Now looking forward the team for the first time is looking financially stable....let's see how Alafouzo handles this current environment,   then we can judge.   One thing I'll tell you is,   he will not be selling the club for 10 million that's laughable and twisted truths.   I can't see Alafouzo selling for less than 50 million.   On a final not,  the basketball king is one of the snakes behind the scenes,   he basically tried to bankrupt the team to take over for peanuts....but his plans didn't work.   What happened to the prediction of PAO getting regulated if we moved to OAKA?   That was coming from the basketball guru himself.   The team made 2.5 million there last year,  and comparing this year's projections to over 10 million.   You need to understand PAO had people behind the scenes killing the club....Alafouzo has eliminated them now.   So let's sit back and watch the outcome.   To close Dimitri thinks he's getting the club along with Athens alive project....but that's not happening unless he forks out 50 million for the club,   and agreeing for Alafouzo to be part of this venture.   What I'm hearing is Alafouzo is negotiating a 50 years lease with OAKA,  at extraordinary low numbers....do you know what that spells,   the end of Leofors because now the government can demolish it by law....the day PAO signs a new lease and declares a permanent home.   So Alafouzo is holding the cards not the Basketball guy.

Edited by PAOTHEGREAT

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Alafouzos is re-evaluating his future at PAO. He used the bad financial situation and all the other restrictions to reduce the budget drastically.  He gambled with the club's reputation and came very, very close to destruction. It was unconscionable. PAO was saved because of the charity of other owners... and political graft.

Now the team, unexpectedly, is doing well, so if attendance remains high, the club will be profitable! No need for Alafouzo to get rid of the club now, especially after he put several millions in the last 6 months. Having a healthy financial footing and making money (even if they break even) is a good position to be in. Why sell?  Plus, there might be more money coming if talent develops and sold for good money in the near future.

As far as Leoforo, DG has to agree to give it up because it doesn't belong to the football club. DG wants OAKA or another home, so if he gets that, he'll give up Leoforos.  I hope if anyone has a sense of history and keeping important places alive, they should turn Leoforos into a nice mini park with a PAO museum. Make it an attraction, green space, something but apts or stores.

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The truth is that the debts are still there...they've just been repackaged and put off...much like they were a few years back making them somewhat more viable but they're still there....and much of these are in Alafouzos name so if Alafouzos wants to present the team now as debt free he'll have to find a fool to eventually pay his 25 mil or whatever is in his name plus the other debts from previous administrations and whatever amount he's asking on top of that. That's why PP is backing out now and Giannakopoulos never was interested in taking over unless its on a free. The finances are far from healthy and while there is less strain and pressure at the moment, you can be sure that it won't last very long unless someone who knows what they are doing and has cash to inject takes over. A few good games by the kids won't change that. If there is a drop in performance (which is almost certain to happen) and the fans get turned off, attendance will drop so will revenue and were back at square one.

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^^I'm certain that the debts paid to players thus far,  can't be paid by creating new debts.   The main conditions from UEFA for reapplying on your license is,   players debts must be paid without debt relief programs,  bonds or new credit.  The real truth is,  PAOs debts will be reduced to 20 million this season,  and all players debts are required to be paid in full.  The 20 million are mostly tax debts,  so Alafouzo will be using the government debt relief package already passed in the Senate.   20 million reduced to 15, paid yearly for 12 years.   You mentioned that the fans will stay away after a few defeats....that's dumb because if they continue to support PAO will have no problems.   The fans will eventually understand how the real world works.  Nobody drops 30 million dollars and hands the team over....that's dumb.  That said if they are looking for a new ownership,  support the team for 3 seasons,  get strong and Alafouzo can sell for a profit.....Remember he's holding the cards,   not the basketball guy.

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Big game on Saturday and a must win.  2 tough matches after PAS,  at Asteras and PAOK.   Saturday they're expecting over 20k,  lets keep it going!

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On 9/24/2018 at 8:32 AM, AchillesHeel said:

Alafouzos (along with his cronies) is the rat....he has to go otherwise the good will the team is building with the fans through their performance won't be worth s#!t....Its not through his actions that the team is performing the way they are right now and the ridiculously low budget will eventually lose sustainability. He's done everything in his power to tear down PAO and will certainly do it again with the youngsters if he sticks around....mark my words.

https://m.sport24.gr/Columns/Charlie/h-istoria-toy-panathhnaikou-deixnei-ton-dromo.5319467.html

This article sums it,  the road back to greatness.  It's very simple,  if they show up constantly for 2 seasons averaging 17k not including the derbies,  PAO will be debt free and earning a big profit.  Also PAO ATM is hitting the highest TV ratings averaging 600k viewers and climbing up to 1 million at highest point.  Knowing this why would Alafouzo sell for nothing?   His budget is 2 million and bringing in over 20 million.   I believe he finally has the perfect economical environment to succeed.  Whatever the case is on whether or not he stays or decides to leave....it's much better for the clubs future to sell a team earning good profit,   and having a solid young roster,  than to be desperately selling a loser in debt.

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2 hours ago, PAOTHEGREAT said:

https://m.sport24.gr/Columns/Charlie/h-istoria-toy-panathhnaikou-deixnei-ton-dromo.5319467.html

This article sums it,  the road back to greatness.  It's very simple,  if they show up constantly for 2 seasons averaging 17k not including the derbies,  PAO will be debt free and earning a big profit.  Also PAO ATM is hitting the highest TV ratings averaging 600k viewers and climbing up to 1 million at highest point.  Knowing this why would Alafouzo sell for nothing?   His budget is 2 million and bringing in over 20 million.   I believe he finally has the perfect economical environment to succeed.  Whatever the case is on whether or not he stays or decides to leave....it's much better for the clubs future to sell a team earning good profit,   and having a solid young roster,  than to be desperately selling a loser in debt.

The fans have already been through all this with the symaxia who has been ignored and dismissed by Alafouzos all the while being a shareholder. The 2 mil budget is laughable and you're counting on players to play but not getting paid their worth and they eventually will walk away. This can be held as a short term plan to get through this season at the most but no way you can maintain this for 3 years. What started as 10mil debts left by the family grew with the ploymetoxoi and sky rocketed under Alafouzos. Don't forget the team had revenues of over 100 mil from 2012-2017 which disappeared in a cloud of smoke without paying so much as the grass cutters for the field never mind player debts.

You really want to look at Alafouzos through rosy colored glasses thinking he's saving the team (yet again) go ahead. I like to look at actions and numbers objectively and formulate my opinions....the lack of disclosure concerning the debts tells me that all the economic forecasting (fan attendance, tv ratings, bla bla bla) means nothing. As a matter of fact there was condition put in to the new AMK agreement preventing Piempongsant from putting in money until after Oct 22.....all the while the media has been calling him a Tsakas and a fraud....for not putting in money. This is the type of bull$#!t your messiah pulls....and you think he's miraculously gonna change his M.O.

Edited by AchillesHeel

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^^Let's see what happens.  For the record PAOs debts were 30 million when Alafouzo took over,  and the 100 million revenue seems farfetched.   That said I might be mistaken,  and the numbers you have are correct.   What's happening with the Thai is very simple....do you trust someone taking over the club with 10 million?   What's happening here is a negotiating of share percentage.   10 million will not buy you the club.   And I don't believe they're worth 60 percent as reported.   What we're getting here is twisted truths.  Alafouzo turned down 25 million offered by Dimitri....so why would he accept 10 million from the Thai after investing 17 million plus 4?   And will be covering 3 million by the end of October.   Getting back to the players being paid on a low budget,   the majority of the kids are being paid 20k a season.   There's negotiations going on now to extend their contracts that end in 2020,  and the management is very confident they will sign 75k to 100k contracts with a clause.   So even if the budget raises to 4 million next year the team can easily handle that.

https://m.sport24.gr/football/omades/Panathinaikos/kanena-empodio-ston-piempongksant-gia-ta-lefta.5319848.html

Here's the official document.   There's nothing holding back the Thai to invest into ownership.   What this article is not telling us is,   what does 10 million by you?  Certainly not 60 percent,  that would be outrageous.  Now even if the debts are still at 25 million,  10 million plus 25 is 35 million.  35 million for 60 percent souds about right.  Alafouzo covers the debts and holds on to shares correct?    Or does 10 million by you 100 percent of the club?  As you can see logic will tell us....Alafouzo expects compensation for the club,   and rightfully so.   I have never in my life heard of someone investing money and then handing their investments over....maybe a father for his son.

Edited by PAOTHEGREAT

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PAO beats PAS 2-1 after being down one controversial goal. I thought it was a foul against Dioudis. But, the team plays on its game and prevails with 2 great goals.

OK. We're all excited with the 5x5, but we haven't played the top contenders for euro spot yet. I include  AEK, PAOK, OSFP, Atromitos, Asteras, and even Aris. I'm hoping for a top 5 finish to get rid of the UEFA penalty this season.

This coming Wednesday we have a cup game. Come to think of it, doesn't the cup winner get a euro spot? How about if the winner is also the champion or second, does the cup finalist get a euro spot?

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I think the pivotal matches will be the ones played against Atromitos, Asteras and maybe Aris. We shouldn't expect the team to beat AEK, PAOK or OSFP....not saying we can't but we should focus on a top 5 finish or maybe winning the cup. The game was much like the previous games where PAO's young talent was too much for PAS even though they parked the bus for most of the game. Falling behind in a benchmark game was a good test for the team and they passed with flying colors. Let's keep it up....and hope Alafouzos doesn't go on a selling spree again.

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