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19 minutes ago, Bananas said:

I was thinking earlier today there is no way Olympiakos can be hoping for relegation.  They must realise the chances of that happening are very remote.  So what is their angle ?  It must be points deductions.

And just now I read a new law has been passed so both teams won’t be relegated.  Surprise surprise.  It looks like Olympiacos’s plan to win “sta xartia” might work.  We forget they are the kings of winning on paper.  Truly a rezili of a club.  I wonder if the Olympiacos players will laugh in the same way the AEK players laughed after the game when Savvidis stormed the field with a gun.

As for Savvidis, if has done something wrong, punish him.  But no, let’s punish the entire team.  And then we wonder why Greece is the way it is.

At the end of this drama someone will be happy.  Either you guys or us.  But at least someone will be happy.  PAOK, bringers of joy!

 

 

I don't think points deductions is the main goal (although a definite bonus for some) as  the allegations will still have to be proven....I think the main goal is to change the punishments and how they are administered....when has the government moved this quickly before....not even when there have been fatalities or gbh to referees and fans. PAOK seems to have been set up to be the reason for changing the consequences of corruption so that others can benefit from this in the near future.

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Polarization has been the go to method in society lately so the bad blood isn't going to worry anyone....I think if Savvides did put money into Xanthi (can't imagine how or why, knowing what would happen if he did) then it will be a major s#!tstorm for all involved including PAOK. I don't think any of this is going to stick though, no matter how oly&cie spin it. It will have to be a transparent process and proven beyond a doubt....sometimes though I get the feeling that Ivan gets really bad advice from his entourage. As a matter of fact it's strange that he hasn't made a counter offensive legally, for libel and defamation, etc.

Edited by AchillesHeel

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No one believes that PAOK is going for relegation. That's for sure. But the whole point is what exactly happened with Xanthi,

Ο Άρης έπεσε δύο φορές Εθνική (η μία ήταν γιατί ξέχασε τα δελτία των ποδοσφαιριστών του, του αφαιρέθηκαν βαθμοί, έπαιξε κεκλεισμένων των θυρών κλπ) ιδού ο ΠΑΟΚ πόσες φορές θα έπρεπε να υποβιβαστεί:

1986 Ο Χαράλαμπος Μπλιώνας πέφτει νεκρός στις κερκίδες του Αλκαζάρ, από φωτοβολίδα που εκτοξεύτηκε από την μεριά των οπαδών του παοκ. Πρώτος νεκρός μέσα σε Ελληνικό γήπεδο ( Δεν υποβιβάστηκε )

2001 Νόμος Βενιζέλου με ειδική εκκαθάριση ώστε οι ομάδες που χρωστάνε στο δημόσιο να μην υποβιβάζονται. (Δεν υποβιβάστηκε)

2004 Νόμος Ορφανού όπου όσοι χρωστάνε στο δημόσιο θα μπουν σε καθεστώς 120 δόσεων και υπάρχει και διαγραφή των προσαυξήσεων στο 80% (Δεν υποβιβάστηκε)

2007 Επειδή δεν έχει πληρώσει καμία δόση από τις 120 της ρύθμισης Ορφανού ο παοκ, ο Ορφανός τους παγώνει τα χρέη μέχρι να βρεθεί διοίκηση μετόχων ενώ αναλαμβάνει ως διοίκηση πρωτοδικείου ο Θοδωρής Ζαγοράκης (Δεν υποβιβάστηκε)

2012 Αναλαμβάνει τον παοκ ο Ιβάν Σαββίδης αγοράζοντας τις μετοχές του. Παρανόμως τα χρέη προς το Ελληνικό δημόσιο παραμένουν παγωμένα για άλλα 2 χρόνια δηλαδή μέχρι το 2014 (Δεν υποβιβάστηκε)

2018 Κατά την διάρκεια του αγώνα παοκ-αεκ στην Τούμπα ο πρόεδρος του παοκ Ιβάν Σαββίδης μπαίνει μέσα στο αγωνιστικό χώρο με φουσκωτούς έχοντας σε εμφανής θέση και το πιστόλι του. Fifa και UEFA ζητάνε τον υποβιβασμό για παραδειγματική τιμωρία (Δεν υποβιβάστηκε)

2020;;;;  Τελικά οι Νόμοι υπάρχουν μοναχά για την ΑΕΚ, Άρη, Ηρακλή; Οι άλλοι δια Νόμου θα έχουν ασυλία; (Τούτο το καθεστώς της ατιμωρησίας των ενόχων εκθέτει και το Σύνταγμα, και τη Κυβέρνηση και τη Δικαιοσύνη, και τους Θεσμούς, και το ίδιο το Κράτος γενικότερα. Βάζοντας τον ΠΑΟΚ πιο πάνω και όλα αυτά).

ΟΚ, μαγκιά του, κι ας τα ισοπέδωσε όλα.. Αλλά δυστυχώς η κατρακύλα δεν σταματά εδώ. Σαν θύτης τραβά το θύμα του στα δικαστήρια. Επιβάλλοντας απαγόρευση μεταγραφών από την ΦΙΦΑ στον Άρη για χρέη τα οποία τα ξεχρέωσε με τον υποβιβασμό του. Ξανά μαγκιά του. Είναι η φύση του τέτοια. Και τα παντελόνια που φορά ...η κυρά Κική (αφού οι άλλοι κρύφτηκαν πίσω της).

Ερωτώ: όταν με το καλό ξεμπλέξει ο Άρης από αυτά, τι θα πρέπει να κάνει; Να θυμίσει στη ΦΙΦΑ το χρέος του ΠΑΟΚ για όλες τις πιο πάνω παραβάσεις, ώστε να καταβληθούν ;

Ετούτο δεν έχει μαγκιά. Κι εγώ ντρέπομαι και  που το λέω. Όποιος θέλει ας καμαρώνει με τα καμώματα του ιδιοκτήτη του.

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They sue over libel and defamation like every fifteen minutes. Perhaps this time they're actually planning a defense.

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1 hour ago, AchillesHeel said:

 

I don't think points deductions is the main goal (although a definite bonus for some) as  the allegations will still have to be proven....I think the main goal is to change the punishments and how they are administered....when has the government moved this quickly before....not even when there have been fatalities or gbh to referees and fans. PAOK seems to have been set up to be the reason for changing the consequences of corruption so that others can benefit from this in the near future.

Call me cynical but I think it’s all about points deductions.  I also think the points to be deducted won’t be finalised until after the PAOK vs Olympiacos match.  If it happens that way then you know the fix is really in.

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What's the range of possible deductions? 3-10 points? So in other words, if we get deducted 10 points and still crush everyone, we can show we won the championship with even bigger balls than before right?

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I only hope PAOK and Savvides have the [email protected]!!s to see this through because they do have a lot of clout in the GSL and not without allies. The political side is run by oly but FIFA and UEFA frown upon government interference so if it goes to CAS they will need certain proof of wrong doing to uphold sort of ruling....doubt it will get that far.

2 minutes ago, pash said:

What's the range of possible deductions? 3-10 points? So in other words, if we get deducted 10 points and still crush everyone, we can show we won the championship with even bigger balls than before right?

I'm pretty sure if there are point deductions it will be just enough to ensure that oly ends up first....and maybe enough to put AEK second....then for sure the fix is in.

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The thing about CAS is that they'll need to see a reason to actually take the case...right? This does not happen every time someone appeals to them. Recall the last time we appealed to them...

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@almand είσαι εκτός τόπου και χρόνου. Ο @AchillesHeel σου είπε ακριβώς τον λόγο που γίνεται όλη αυτή η ιστορία. Για να αλλάξουν νόμους, ώστε να την γλιτώσει ο Ολυμπιακός στο μέλλον που κατηγορείται για στημένα και εγκληματικές οργανώσεις εδώ και 3-4 χρόνια και δεν έχει γίνει τίποτα. Εσύ φυσικά σαν παραρτηματΑΡΗΣ θα παίξει το ρόλο που σου αναλογεί. Ήδη έβγαλε ανακοίνωση και ο θθούπερ 3 και η ΠΑΕ σου.

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Είμαι ενήμερος Γιάγκο κι ευχαριστώ. Εσύ αντιλαμβάνεσαι ποια καμπανάκια σου κρούουν αυτά που διάβασες; Γιατί αύριο-μεθαύριο δεν θα είναι μόνο ο Ηρακλής, η ΑΕΚ, ο ΄Αρης ή ο ΠαναθηναΪκός που θα ζητούν από τη ΦΙΦΑ αυτό που αξιώνεις εσύ για τον Άρη. Και μέτρα τη ζημιά να δεις για τι ζημιά μιλάμε για τη κυρά-Κική...

Στο μόνο που δίνω δίκιο είναι ένα. Μακάρι να τη πληρώσει και ο Ολυμπιακός κι όλοι όσοι στηρίζουν την παράγκα. Αλλά τότε μόνοι μας θα παίζουμε... Και δεν λέει...

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Yiankos is exactly right. It is one of the reasons this whole farce was set up. It is to save Olympiakos's ass in case they lose the match fixing case. That case is finally going to court after many years of delay and Marinakis with the help of the government is taking precautions. Any point deductions along the way will be a bonus. The other main reason of course is to force Savvidis to abandon PAOK and leave the country. Let's not forget that USA is not that happy with Russian investments in Greece, and now they have a an ally in the new Greek government.

I see it as a miracle that the government acted right away and in one day is trying to pass a law that relegation is not the correct punishment, and the more suitable solution is points deductions. They even saying PAOK should get -6 and Xanthi -10. This was their goal from the beginning. This is a master plan that was put into motion immediately when the new government took office. This is to reward Marinakis who has been supporting the New Democracy party financially. 

As AchillesHeel points out, PAOK should call their bluff and fight this until the end even it means relegation in the end. 

 

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The whole thing is a joke. To be honest I am a bit disappointed nobody saw this coming (even myself). They really are like those Romanian gypsies you see at tourist spots like the Eiffel Tower or Big Ben (playing εδω ο παππάς, εκεί ο παππάς). Sometimes you can only sit back and admire their abiity to pull such a con. The whole thing was a set up to save themselves going forward while making PAOK look like the bad one. ΝΔ them came forward and 'saved' us by changing the law - this was the aim the whole time while ensuring a point deduction to give them the league.

I would like PAE PAOK to come forward and reject the proposal for change in law and ask for proof that we are guilty. If we are then relegate us otherwise things stay as they are and we go to court.

They really can't handle a third season without a trophy. Aris fans are ecstatic that their main investor is getting his way and that PAOK will not win the title thi year. Honestly it is things like this that make me realise that modern Greeks are probably right down there with Albanians and Slavs etc. We have absolutely nothing in common with our ancient ancestors. I have always heard the phrase like "Ούτε στην Ουγκάντα/Κολομβία δεν γίνοται αυτα". I would say that people in Uganda or Colombia now probably say "Μη γίνουμε σαν την Ελλάδα!"

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Relegation or death! 😀

Not sure if -5 points will be enough for Olympiakos to win the league. 😀

Sidenote: I thought maybe Mitsotakis being from a different generation and after what Greece has been through since 2008 might do things differently.  Whatever good will he had has all been flushed down the toilet.  He’s crapped on half of Thessaloniki and for what ?

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I really hope that our fans don't decide to take matters in their own hands and become destructive during the next few matches especially against olympiakos next month. Last thing we want is point deduction for fan violence. This is exactly what olympiakos would want

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10 hours ago, almand said:

Είμαι ενήμερος Γιάγκο κι ευχαριστώ. Εσύ αντιλαμβάνεσαι ποια καμπανάκια σου κρούουν αυτά που διάβασες; Γιατί αύριο-μεθαύριο δεν θα είναι μόνο ο Ηρακλής, η ΑΕΚ, ο ΄Αρης ή ο ΠαναθηναΪκός που θα ζητούν από τη ΦΙΦΑ αυτό που αξιώνεις εσύ για τον Άρη. Και μέτρα τη ζημιά να δεις για τι ζημιά μιλάμε για τη κυρά-Κική...

Στο μόνο που δίνω δίκιο είναι ένα. Μακάρι να τη πληρώσει και ο Ολυμπιακός κι όλοι όσοι στηρίζουν την παράγκα. Αλλά τότε μόνοι μας θα παίζουμε... Και δεν λέει...

Εσύ αντιλαμβάνεσαι ότι η κυρα-Κική είναι η μόνη που έχει πληρώσει; Όλες τις ρυθμίσεις και τις ιστορίες Βενιζέλου και άρθρα 44 και 99 και τα λοιπά, έχει μπει και η δική σου ομάδα, αλλά θέλεις να το παίζεις οσία παρθένα. Ο Σαββίδης πλήρωσε το αρχικό χρέος χωρίς τις προσαυξήσεις. Κάτι που δεν έκανε κανείς. Τέλος πάντων...

Θέλεις να την πληρώσει ο Ολυμπιακός; Τότε φίλε μου υποστηρίζεις λάθος ομάδα, γιατί η πολιτική της ΠΑΕ σου τα τελευταία 6-7 χρόνια, πριν ακόμα αναλάβει ο μέγιστος ηγέτης Καρύπαρος, ήταν από φιλική έως την αηδία που κατήντησε από όταν ανέβηκε στην Α' Εθνική προς την ομάδα του Πειραιά. Δεν είδα κανέναν θούπερ 3 ή καμία ΠΑΕ Άρης "Ο ΑΡΗΣ" να βγάλει ανακοίνωση για τα στημένα, την εγκληματική οργάνωση, τα λευκά πόλο, τους τραμπουκισμούς διαιτητών και το "ήθος" που κατά καιρούς διδάσκει ο θρύλος. Οπότε τα κροκοδείλια δάκρυα ότι θέλεις να την πληρώσει ο Ολυμπιακός άστα γι' αυτούς που δεν ξέρουν.

Είμαστε σε πόλεμο και δεν είσαι ούτε στη μέση, ούτε ουδέτερος. Είσαι η μύξα του Ολυμπιακού. Μαγκιά σου. Δεν με απασχολείς. Εγώ θέλω τον Σαββίδη να πουλήσει τρέλα και να γίνει της πόπης. Και ο κόσμος να καθίσει φρόνιμος στα παιχνίδια για να μην δώσουμε κανένα δικαίωμα. Βέβαια, με τον Μαρινάκη πρωθυπουργό και τον ΠΑΟΚ να έχει ήδη ηττηθεί κατά κράτος στα δικαστήρια όπου του έκλεψαν ένα πρωτάθλημα, οι πιθανότητες δεν είναι με το μέρος μας. Όχι γιατί είμαστε ένοχοι (αυτό δεν το ξέρω), αλλά γιατί υστερούμε σε δικηγόρους και λαμόγια που κινούνται στις σκιές.

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Massive s%$#! show in Greece the last few hours with Parliament passing the vote for points deduction and no relegation HOWEVER it’s reported that, been mid season, it would need EPO to get approval from FIFA who hopefully can come in and add some competence and reason to this circus that is Greek football 

Edited by Alphonse

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Yep, democracy in action.  As for FIFA ha ha, the same organisation that voted for the Qatar World Cup, forgive me for having doubts about their impartiality.

The only way PAOK is getting away with is with dirty tactics if they can find and use something.  This was never about being a fair fight, justice or the good of football in Greece.  That much is clear.

It could have been handled very differently but hasn’t been.  Kind of surprising but at the same time kind of not surprised.

Edited by Bananas

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FIFA? UEFA? You mean where Kurio Savvas Theodoridis son is the general secretary? 

I'm with Bananas no doubt they will be impartial 🙂

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FIFA won't step in to help us - they never have before. And CAS will do nothing as well, to reference Savvidis' instagram post from about five minutes ago. The only way out of this is to convince the league early.

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Agree pash.  I wouldn’t expect anything from UEFA/FIFA/CAS.  It kind of comes down to who has the most sway over the various teams in the league.  I am not optimistic.

Something closer to -10 points seems the most likely outcome.  -5 points is too risky.  A win in Toumba and all of a sudden we’d be only 1 point behind Olympiakos.  Can you imagine ?

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If PAOK gets relegated, it will cause riots in northern Greece.  That is the only reason why the state did what it did.

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29 minutes ago, Brklyngrk said:

If PAOK gets relegated, it will cause riots in northern Greece.  That is the only reason why the state did what it did.

No offence but you have no clue what is going on in Greece. I don't know which team you support but this whole thing has been for the benefit of Olympiacos and them only.

Everyone has said that if we are guilty then we should be relegated. 

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What I do know is that the govn't is trying to stabilize the economy and streamline reforms while dealing with external threats in the eastern med. Unfortunately, sport and politics seem to go together.  The government feels that if PAOK is relegated, there will be riots in Saloniki.  Same goes if OLY was relegated, there would be riots.  To have some calm, there are trying to get ahead of this.  I don't like the fact that Sports and Politics are being comingled but in an environment were there are so many pitfalls, soccer should not destroy a country.  Just being pragmatic.

And while I do agree if PAOK is guilty, they should be relegated, I do not think PAOK would accept the punishment and they would start blaming the other big teams.

btw - I support PAO but Greece above all teams.

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The sad thing is that even if PAOK is innocent, we will still get punished. Except for the fans the team has no other support. Even the local politicians who depend on votes from the locals sided with their master who is controlled by the owner of Olympiakos. 

Let's not forget this whole issue is not directly about PAOK. It's a campaign to chase Savvidis out of Greece. 

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