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SL–R25: PAOK - AEK (11 Mar 18, 19:30 EET)

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1 hour ago, aekaraCLE said:

What is everyone missing here? Let's not even mention the gun; what the hell is an owner of a major team even doing on the field, during the game?!  People, open up your eyes. This crap doesn't happen anywhere.  His butt should have been in the owners box.  The moment he made it about himself is when he screwed the team, the fans, and Greek football! 

PAOK does no wrong to some here file. It’s just propaganda against PAOK, everyone else is to blame

Respect to the few PAOK guys that can actually see what’s happened and not lying to themselves. This has only gone viral around the world but no... PAOK is the innocent party in this forum for many lol!!

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PAOK is not the innocent party here. It's a very small part of the overall problem in Greek football and Greek society. This whole issue has political overtones written all over it. 

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Either way, this incident has escalated internationally.  FIFA and UEFA have both said they will be watching the outcomes of EPO's decision. I believe UEFA will be helping with implementing the verdict/new sporting legislation.  The truth is the constant invading and hooliganism involved in the derbies is ruining the game.  Something has to be done to ruin what otherwise has been a good season for the Superleague.

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The season was going good because there was a change in the EPO leadership, which was not controlled by Olympiakos as in the past. As a result Superleague became competitive and other teams finally had a good chance of contending for the title. Seeing that they lost control they decided to sabotage the whole thing.

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So the ref and linesman calling a goal.... THEN taking away the goal 2 minutes later after pressure from AEK players/officials and THEN allegedly (according to the ref) preparing to give the goal BACK to the home team, mere seconds before Savvidis got onto the pitch bears no responsibility for this fiasco?

The referees in Greece are a disgrace. 

I'm not taking any blame away from Savvidis, but let's not lose sight of what started this entire thing to begin with. 

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my 2c

- that's a goal every day of the week

- generally around the world the refs don't card enough players for invading their personal space, starting handing them out like lollies and the mofos will run like cockroaches

- last time I checked this was the PAOK section of the site, it's not our fault the AEK and PAO sections are virtual wastelands, don't come in here trolling. Come in, have your say once and then leave it. If you think we are delusional, fine, you read it the way you want and see yourselves out.

- PAOKtzides, relax. We have eff all control of the situation now that we are under the thumb of a russian mobster, let's enjoy the highlights, the club is not what it once was and likely never will be again, between senior, junior, the hooligans, EPO and the athenian teams we are unlikely to win a title, but we will have better teams than we had through most of the nineties and early 2000's

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, aekaraCLE said:

What is everyone missing here? Let's not even mention the gun; what the hell is an owner of a major team even doing on the field, during the game?!  People, open up your eyes. This crap doesn't happen anywhere.  His butt should have been in the owners box.  The moment he made it about himself is when he screwed the team, the fans, and Greek football! 

I agree with your comment 100% regarding Savvidis, being on the pitch. However, saying that this alone is the problem in Greek football is like saying the assassination of Franz Ferdinand caused World War I. It's a lazy argument, and if we treat it as an individual problem, then we will never fix Greek soccer. Punish Savvidis, and punish PAOK - yes, I agree to this. But I also want a proper public inquiry carried out by a foreign third party to investigate WHY these things happen in Greek soccer. You can write an entire thesis about the issues of corruption, and preferential treatment. Yet in typical lazy Greek journalism, all cling to the gun sighting. Yes, it's horrendous, but focussing solely on a weapon that was never drawn distracts from the greater problem.

Savvidis was very clear about wanting to take the team off the pitch. He stormed the pitch and acted like a child. It sounds extremely similar to how Theodoridis, Olympiacos' vice president, acted to weeks ago. Except, he picked up his team because a paper roll hit the coach. Why hasn't anyone drawn that comparison? 

As for the gun, we should ask, why does the owner of a team need to carry one when he already has body guards? Do we honestly think he carries it to shoot down people that disagree with him? If he is a Mafia leader, then he must not be a good one as I am pretty certain they are better at getting others to do their own dirty work. Besides, if he is so corrupt, why publicly threaten the ref in front of literally millions of eyes? Wouldn't he be better off doing that in a more discreet way? Or does he carry the gun for protection? Here's a guy who has forced himself into an already corrupt system and he has ruffled many feathers trying to change the establishment. You don't think he's created new enemies? Heck, a few years ago, Marinakis ordered military style helipcopters to patrol Toumba out of fear that fans may do something to him. And he got his way - as if Greece were a military state! And our issue is that a team owner carries a pistol?

Again not condoning publicly walking around with a firearm, but I hope people are better at asking the tough questions than the journalists. There are thousands of problems in Greek society and soccer. Like I said, throw the book at PAOK and Savvidis. They earned it. But if we don't take wider action to investigate the true root cause for all this conflict then there will be other such events in the league, and we will never fix the issues. This is an opportunity to finally make things right.

Public Inquiry now!

Edited by PAOK17
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3 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

The season was going good because there was a change in the EPO leadership, which was not controlled by Olympiakos as in the past. As a result Superleague became competitive and other teams finally had a good chance of contending for the title. Seeing that they lost control they decided to sabotage the whole thing.

The two biggest issues have come from Toumba though... how is Olympiakos responsible for sabotaging the whole thing?

I am just curious how you guys keep pointing the finger at others.

The game vs Olympiakos did not happen because of one PAOK fan, it was then dealt with horribly, and we know the reff stuffed it but but you did get the 3 points back which IMO may have cause some of the reason this happened vs AEK. 

In the game vs AEK the match did not finish because the PAOK chairman invaded the pitch carrying a gun on him and threatened the reff and Dimitriadis

Your fans for the most part have been very good in all this which is a positive and I hope FIFA, UEFA & EPO look at the real instigators in this, which is a shame the well behaved fans are all getting punished now - as usually happens in Greece

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Ok i have watched the video of the goal/no goal .   Man i have to say that is a tough one.  Wow as a referee i am still hard pressed to make a decision even after the benefit of instant replay.  Ok so after watching it a few times i have to come up with this decision and even im not sure if im right but i will show it to other refs i know to see what they say.    Yes the player in question is in an offside position when the ball is headed .  Now he somehow manages to not touch the ball so now we have to say is he blocking or obstructing the goalkeeper in away after the ball was headed.  Im saying No he was off to the side and not really anywhere near the goalkeeper .   I would have to say that this is a VALID GOAL.  And again i could be wrong another ref can interpret it differently.    

The fact these guys don't have the benefit of instant replay it is a really difficult decision to make.  I do not think there is other forces influencing there decision on why they flip flopped the call , it was just that a really tough call to make .

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

The two biggest issues have come from Toumba though... how is Olympiakos responsible for sabotaging the whole thing?

I am just curious how you guys keep pointing the finger at others.

The game vs Olympiakos did not happen because of one PAOK fan, it was then dealt with horribly, and we know the reff stuffed it but but you did get the 3 points back which IMO may have cause some of the reason this happened vs AEK. 

In the game vs AEK the match did not finish because the PAOK chairman invaded the pitch carrying a gun on him and threatened the reff and Dimitriadis

Your fans for the most part have been very good in all this which is a positive and I hope FIFA, UEFA & EPO look at the real instigators in this, which is a shame the well behaved fans are all getting punished now - as usually happens in Greece

The thing is that the olympiakos fans rioting on the pitch in Karaiskaki after the aek match was grabbing all the media attention. Now that PAOK has been involved in events does that mean you sweep that incident under the carpet? Should other fan riots/disturbances not be looked at either where fans and police have been injured across other teams?

What about corruption of the last 20 years where there are match fixing allegations and scandals, refeering decisions favouring one team, club owners storming dressing rooms, other cup finals won in dubious circumstances, clubs with debts not being punished. Why should all these things be ignored? In all honestly why should aek players get away with man handling the officials? 

PAOK should be punished but so should other clubs. A royal commission of the entire greek superleague needs to occur where every single club and all football bodies are investigated.

Edited by SydneyPAOK
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17 minutes ago, Polikastano said:

Ok i have watched the video of the goal/no goal .   Man i have to say that is a tough one.  Wow as a referee i am still hard pressed to make a decision even after the benefit of instant replay.  Ok so after watching it a few times i have to come up with this decision and even im not sure if im right but i will show it to other refs i know to see what they say.    Yes the player in question is in an offside position when the ball is headed .  Now he somehow manages to not touch the ball so now we have to say is he blocking or obstructing the goalkeeper in away after the ball was headed.  Im saying No he was off to the side and not really anywhere near the goalkeeper .   I would have to say that this is a VALID GOAL.  And again i could be wrong another ref can interpret it differently.    

The fact these guys don't have the benefit of instant replay it is a really difficult decision to make.  I do not think there is other forces influencing there decision on why they flip flopped the call , it was just that a really tough call to make .

The issue honestly isn't even if it is a legit goal or not.  We all know it's a tough call.....but the referee and linesman both confirmed it was a goal.  Then they said it wasn't.  THEN they lied in the match report saying they called it offside.

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1 hour ago, Alphonse said:

The two biggest issues have come from Toumba though... how is Olympiakos responsible for sabotaging the whole thing?

I am just curious how you guys keep pointing the finger at others.

The game vs Olympiakos did not happen because of one PAOK fan, it was then dealt with horribly, and we know the reff stuffed it but but you did get the 3 points back which IMO may have cause some of the reason this happened vs AEK. 

In the game vs AEK the match did not finish because the PAOK chairman invaded the pitch carrying a gun on him and threatened the reff and Dimitriadis

Your fans for the most part have been very good in all this which is a positive and I hope FIFA, UEFA & EPO look at the real instigators in this, which is a shame the well behaved fans are all getting punished now - as usually happens in Greece

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Yes, the things in Toumba are not acceptable, but they are all connected in the bigger web of issues in Greek soccer in general. You say a "PAOK chairman invaded the pitch carrying a gun and threatened the reff and Dimitriadis." The threats are alleged for one, and second the gun is circumstantial. Again, it was stupid that he carries it. No one is arguing with you on that.

But let's not forget that no one even knew about the gun until it was posted by NOVA later. Would you still have the same attitude if there was no gun? If so, then why are you not up in arms for when Theodoridis, and Olympiakos chairman, stormed the pitch and demanded his team leave the pitch?

Like I said, I am fine with throwing the book at PAOK, but make sure to thoroughly clean up the rest of Greek soccer too. Savvidis isn't the problem, his behaviour is just a symptom. If we don't fix it from top-bottom, then we will have the same conversation in a few months. Cycle, rinse and repeat.

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35 minutes ago, SydneyPAOK said:

PAOK should be punished but so should other clubs. A royal commission of the entire greek superleague needs to occur where every single club and all football bodies are investigated.

Looks like us commonwealthers think alike. You one-upped me with the Royal Commission ;)

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57 minutes ago, SydneyPAOK said:

The thing is that the olympiakos fans rioting on the pitch in Karaiskaki after the aek match was grabbing all the media attention. Now that PAOK has been involved in events does that mean you sweep that incident under the carpet? Should other fan riots/disturbances not be looked at either where fans and police have been injured across other teams?

What about corruption of the last 20 years where there are match fixing allegations and scandals, refeering decisions favouring one team, club owners storming dressing rooms, other cup finals won in dubious circumstances, clubs with debts not being punished. Why should all these things be ignored? In all honestly why should aek players get away with man handling the officials? 

PAOK should be punished but so should other clubs. A royal commission of the entire greek superleague needs to occur where every single club and all football bodies are investigated.

Olympiakos is on trial today, provided they lose the 3 points that is being dealt with

I am talking about the now and non of what you day can be ignored but we can't go back on that and excuse what has happened today

As I keep saying, take some accountability, you guys all shout and scream for a royal commission and a new start but can never admit how badly PAOK has F***ed themselves and Greek Soccer world wide! 

At least you admit PAOK should be punished :cheers-421530:

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27 minutes ago, PAOK17 said:

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Yes, the things in Toumba are not acceptable, but they are all connected in the bigger web of issues in Greek soccer in general. You say a "PAOK chairman invaded the pitch carrying a gun and threatened the reff and Dimitriadis." The threats are alleged for one, and second the gun is circumstantial. Again, it was stupid that he carries it. No one is arguing with you on that.

But let's not forget that no one even knew about the gun until it was posted by NOVA later. Would you still have the same attitude if there was no gun? If so, then why are you not up in arms for when Theodoridis, and Olympiakos chairman, stormed the pitch and demanded his team leave the pitch?

Like I said, I am fine with throwing the book at PAOK, but make sure to thoroughly clean up the rest of Greek soccer too. Savvidis isn't the problem, his behaviour is just a symptom. If we don't fix it from top-bottom, then we will have the same conversation in a few months. Cycle, rinse and repeat.

I am not missing the forest from the trees, ironically most of the PAOK guys are who are doing exactly what you say as I have pointed out above.

My points are all for the bigger issues of Greek soccer in general.

Gun or no gun, you yourself have gone back on your own words... Savvidis's behavior just a symptom? This symptom maybe the peak of what we need to make Greek football civil, you can not excuse the gun or play it down as you guys are. I may not have seen it originally but guess what... the players, officials and security on the ground saw it, the effect that has it considerable, it's why this has gone viral.

You don't know that I was in fact up in arms when Theodoridis stormed the pitch and the saga was horribly managed too.

We need to start calling it as it is boys, stop trying to save grace and man up. Greek football needs to sort itself out big time, we are fighting within but we all know we need to clean this crap out and stop these powers that be at the like of OSFP, PAOK, AEK, PAO etc... and hooligans ruin the show for the real football fans 

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When the other teams are run by mafiozi, you can't expect to do anything without being a mafiozo.  That's how it is.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Alphonse said:

Olympiakos is on trial today, provided they lose the 3 points that is being dealt with

I am talking about the now and non of what you day can be ignored but we can't go back on that and excuse what has happened today

As I keep saying, take some accountability, you guys all shout and scream for a royal commission and a new start but can never admit how badly PAOK has F***ed themselves and Greek Soccer world wide! 

At least you admit PAOK should be punished :cheers-421530:

Most PAOK supporters aren't denying accountability or punishment for PAOK. I am not excusing what happened yesterday. I am not sure how long you have been following Greek football for but i can tell you that Greek football has been plagued with corruption and fan violence. It hasn't all of a sudden become all this since yesterday and i disagree with you that PAOK f**ed Greek football. 

And by the way injustices of the past can be addressed today. Any crime committed in history can be dealt with today so not sure why we cant go back in time. It also allows an outsider or someone new to Greek football ( im guessing you) to understand the mentality. 

Its very easy to pounce on the event that just unfolded and make PAOK look like the worst club on the face of the earth. It actually highlights how much other clubs in Greece NEED a scapegoat. 

3 weeks ago AEK officially asked for Greek football to be suspended until court cases were resolved. Now all of a sudden AEK fans are up in arms complaining that the league has been suspended as this punishes all clubs not PAOK. Hypocrites.

AEK fans slammed PAOK for winning the Cup final in 2017 for a goal that was scored from an offside position labelling PAOK cheats and accusing Savvidis of running Greek football. Do you not recall 2011??? Let me remind you what Atromitos owner said

"This took Greek soccer back at least 100 years" AEK won the cup today because it had to win. Everyone saw what circumstances we had to play in?".

AEK fans also stormed the pitch that day and clashed with police and ATTACKED Atromitos players. This has all been forgotten now and PAOK are the culprits of the mess in Greek Soccer according to you.

Panathinaikos fans are demanding PAOK be relegated yet their club has not been relegated like Iraklis for being in debt. Hypocrites. 

Olympiakos fans are labeling Savvidis as a corrupt owner who has influence over the Greek Super League yet its ok and all forgotten that their owner has been that for 20 years. Its all forgotten that he is involved in match fixing. They want to label Savvidis a gangster for carrying a pistol yet police found tonnes of heroin on one of his ships. Hypocrites

Again I am NOT excusing what Savvidis did last night. It was STUPID and should be punished 100%, BUT don't come here and act like your team are angels and that Greek football was a church before events that have occurred at TOUMBA. Greece is a mess for a reason and so is Greek soccer. It needs a royal commission an a massive overhaul of management

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SydneyPAOK
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When did I say my team were angels or that Greek football was squeaky clean?? Lol

PAOK Sydney, I’ve been following Greek Football for many many years, I dunno why your going there but you again prove my point.

 

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14 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

When did I say my team were angels or that Greek football was squeaky clean?? Lol

PAOK Sydney, I’ve been following Greek Football for many many years, I dunno why your going there but you again prove my point.

 

You're just trolling and it's not even good or particularly imaginative trolling, why don't you go and spout some of this back in the AEK forum because that is where it's more suited, except it's lifeless in there and you can't get the attention that your childish self craves.

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9 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

When did I say my team were angels or that Greek football was squeaky clean?? Lol

PAOK Sydney, I’ve been following Greek Football for many many years, I dunno why your going there but you again prove my point.

 

What point? I have admitted that my team needs to be punished for the actions of Savvidis.

You though have not manned up. I dont see you calling out aek the way the players and management behaved by manhandling and verbally abusing the officials until the decision was overturned.

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Well said @SydneyPAOK Greek football has been a mess for years, longer than I've been following it. You can go through every season and pinpoint clubs/individuals who have harmed Greek football. 

Unfortunately for us Savvidis adopted the motto if you can't beat them join them. And many people in Greece say, you can't win the league if you don't have the refs/EPO in your pocket. It's a sad reality of football in our country. 

What Savvidis did was immature and crossed the line, but it's stuff that's happened before. And will continue to happen. Nothing will change, not in our lifetimes anyway. Greece as a country needs to be knocked down and built again. 

I guess a few weeks ago Warda threatened himself with a gun? 

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33 minutes ago, Nea Bafra said:

You're just trolling and it's not even good or particularly imaginative trolling, why don't you go and spout some of this back in the AEK forum because that is where it's more suited, except it's lifeless in there and you can't get the attention that your childish self craves.

This is not trolling, your post is poor when it gets to this level don’t worry bout wasting your time with these posts to me

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, SydneyPAOK said:

What point? I have admitted that my team needs to be punished for the actions of Savvidis.

You though have not manned up. I dont see you calling out aek the way the players and management behaved by manhandling and verbally abusing the officials until the decision was overturned.

Ela re file, man handled and verbally abused the official?

There is not a single mention of that anywhere, your just deflecting here.

My point is pointing the finger elsewhere like your doing now & more so before.

Bravo for being a man and admitting about PAOK. 

AEK has had their moments in the past too I’m not denying that nor said they weren’t I just don’t get why we are bringing that up.

Edited by Alphonse

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13 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

Ela re file, man handled and verbally abused the official?

There is not a single mention of that anywhere, your just deflecting here.

My point is pointing the finger elsewhere like your doing now & more so before.

Bravo for being a man and admitting about PAOK. 

AEK has had their moments in the past too I’m not denying that nor said they weren’t I just don’t get why we are bringing that up.

Sorry I'm not deflecting as i have admitted PAOK should get punished. I dont think i need to keep repeating this. You on the other hand are deflecting. You still have not manned up that aek harassed the officials. Im raising this incident because it was this incident that caused Savvidis' brain explosion. Again it was a stupid act and he should get punished but the chain of event should definitely not be ignored. The overturned goal at that point was a championship deciding factor. Emotions are high and because of all the historical corruptions at play, Savvidis saw this as another play at a ref going against PAOK. You like many fans are feeding off the media frenzy which only highlight elements that will sell a story. Its all too easy for you and the aektzides to be wanting PAOK to fall apart so you can win the championship. The courts and governing bodies when neutral will ignore hype and look at the facts and chain of events. I think you dont like this part because aek may be subject to some minor punishment. 

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