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SL–R25: PAOK - AEK (11 Mar 18, 19:30 EET)

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On 3/18/2018 at 7:22 AM, Nea Bafra said:

gentlemen, how about you start a different thread for this discussion

I will not close it / split it for now. Keep the discussions concerning the legal proceedings considering the PAOK - AEK game here and the ones concerning the PAOK - Olympiakos in the respective thread. 

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On 3/17/2018 at 6:14 PM, Yiankos said:

Major League Soccer one of the top leagues?

No it's not.

Organizational wise it's way above the Greek Superleague and probably some other European leagues as well. However player quality wise it's average at best.

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Let's get back on topic and stay there ...

Kominis apparently replied to the judges request to answer questions concerning all the lies he wrote in the initial match report. However media reports say (really how did they get the contents of his e-mail to the judge?) that he failed to reply or even add anything new to what is already in the questionable original match report. I think it's very important that PAOK lawyers request that he (and the linesmen and 4th officials) are forced to attend the hearing in person and testify under oath. 

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This is a joke. We have Kominis making fun of the whole justice system. How is he allowed not to be there?

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Court decision is expected on Thursday, but I have a feeling this will drag on for a while.

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13 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Did you actually see the game or are you basing your opinions on what you are reading in the Greek media?

There was police present. If anyone was threatened they would have restrained him. The fact that he had a concealed weapon was not known until he was leaving the field when he took his jacket off. The only reason the gun issue is used is because a photographer was able to snap a picture which was then immediately circulated to all the paid off media.

The only reason AEK was "threatened" was because the ref informed them that the score was 1:0. If it was 0:0 they would have come out on the field without any problem.

Now let's get back on topic.

Olympiakos hopes for both PAOK and AEK to get punished, so they can get their dirty hands on another "paper" title. 

Blackhawk has absolutely nailed it here.

"The only reason AEK was "threatened" was because the ref informed them that the score was 1:0. If it was 0:0 they would have come out on the field without any problem."

It's no surprise that in the two biggest games of the season, both in toumba, both in which PAOK were going to win, both their apponents were part of P.O.K. and with PAOK bulldozing their way to the championship... is it any wonder that this has gone on?

I'll repeat again, It's a total disgrace that this can be entertained as an actual scenario we find ourselves in. The superleague and EPO have allowed these 'rules' and punishments to be upheld so that they can protect mainly 1 team. 

If they had any ounce of moral fiber  then they would replay the  PAOK v Olympiakos and explain then decision  to allow the result with AEK stand (or play the last few mins with the score at 1-0). This is in my honest opinion, the only way for the league to save face. Allow it to be won on sporting merit and then look at the rules and punishments at the end of the season as it cannot carry on in its current format.

"Would not be shocked if that happens and only in Greece that the olympiakos appeal for the crowd incident with aek is being postponed till after the PAOK-AEK outcome! "

I actually think that the way the olympiakos appeal  has been dealt with is beyond laughable. Its so arrogant and obvious that its insulting to everyone with an interest in greek football.

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58 minutes ago, DunfermlineAthleticPAOK said:

Blackhawk has absolutely nailed it here.

"The only reason AEK was "threatened" was because the ref informed them that the score was 1:0. If it was 0:0 they would have come out on the field without any problem."

It's no surprise that in the two biggest games of the season, both in toumba, both in which PAOK were going to win, both their apponents were part of P.O.K. and with PAOK bulldozing their way to the championship... is it any wonder that this has gone on?

I'll repeat again, It's a total disgrace that this can be entertained as an actual scenario we find ourselves in. The superleague and EPO have allowed these 'rules' and punishments to be upheld so that they can protect mainly 1 team. 

If they had any ounce of moral fiber  then they would replay the  PAOK v Olympiakos and explain then decision  to allow the result with AEK stand (or play the last few mins with the score at 1-0). This is in my honest opinion, the only way for the league to save face. Allow it to be won on sporting merit and then look at the rules and punishments at the end of the season as it cannot carry on in its current format.

"Would not be shocked if that happens and only in Greece that the olympiakos appeal for the crowd incident with aek is being postponed till after the PAOK-AEK outcome! "

I actually think that the way the olympiakos appeal  has been dealt with is beyond laughable. Its so arrogant and obvious that its insulting to everyone with an interest in greek football.

The goal was overturned by the reff....and after that Savidis went ballistics.  Teams left the field on the reffs orders.  The paper roll was thrown by a PAOK supporter.   YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES.   As for Olympiakos....they're the only team that will qualify for the CL....the league needs to hold onto that all important spot.  Naturally they're pulling for Olympiakos to finish at least 2.   That being said,  PAOK IS MAKING IT EASIER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN,  by their own behavior.

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Guys, it's been fun voicing opinions, and listening to all sides of this saga.  By the reaction in these forums, one thing is certain, we all want to see soccer prosper in Greece.  We love the game, our teams and the competition.  If you look at what's happened in the past 45 days in GSL, it's absolutely insane.  Not looking back to prior years, but just focusing on the current state.  I'm not speaking as an AEK fan right now, and I hope you read this with neutrality, and not with your teams colors.  The incidents at Toumba for the past 2 home games are of no fault of the visiting teams.  Against Oly, no matter what the object was that was thrown, iit was unfortunate.  The rules of the league clearly stated what the repercussions are for breaking the rules.  PAOK was given a -3 point deduction, then 2 home games without fans.  

Remember, earlier in the season, Olympiacos was given the same punishment for mismanaged fans against AEK.  In a turn of events, less than 18 hours before the match against AEK, an appeal was granted where points were given back to PAOK AND fans were permitted to attend the game.  So, the evening prior to the game, AEK went to bed being 5 points ahead, and the expectation of no fans.  We all wake up on Sunday to the news of the change in the ruling.............

Fast forward to the derby, and we all saw what happened......an owner and general manager invade a pitch!  Players confirm that threats were made towards the referee by PAOK officials; images of a gun holstered on the waist of the owner.......chaos......

Now, if we are unbiased in reading the events listed above, how in the world would anyone expect ANY team from any part of the world, to come back onto the field and finish the match?!  How can we expect the referee to officiate the final minutes of the game, after what happened earlier?  I didn't even list the fact that a goal was allowed, disallowed, then allowed again; since it has no bearing on the situation of the pitch invasion.  PAOK made their bed; now they must sleep in it.  No finger pointing, no excuses, it's been happening all season.  When will you hold your team/officials/fans accountable for their actions?  When will we expect the league to uphold the rules, that are written in black and white?  This is the very reason that we've become the laughing stock of the soccer world.  

The fact that Olympiacos has had their appeal postponed for over 30 days is another laughing matter.  Will I be shocked if they are given back their 3 points; no.  The league gave PAOK back their points, so what's the justification to deduct from Oly?  Rules are rules, right?!!

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PAOK today submitted additional material to the judge including a video footage. Decision is now expected Friday or next week. I expect very heavy punishment for PAOK considering the wishes of the government and paid off media. The final decisions will be decided on appeals.

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11 hours ago, aekaraCLE said:

  I'm not speaking as an AEK fan right now, and I hope you read this with neutrality, and not with your teams colors.  The incidents at Toumba for the past 2 home games are of no fault of the visiting teams.

 So, the evening prior to the game, AEK went to bed being 5 points ahead, and the expectation of no fans.  We all wake up on Sunday to the news of the change in the ruling.............

You ask us to read this with neutrality and yet you put your yellow and black glasses to cry that AEK went to bed being 5 points ahead.

What about PAOK team? We were two points ahead before the match against Olympiakos, we were ready to smash Olympiakos and probably increase the difference with the second team (AEK) and instead of that we had this circus leaving for no reason and fabricate a huge lie (refusal to let the doctor examine the injured person, leave the stadium without the referee telling them to do so, going to a private hospital, post photos of the inside of the mouth with a joke injury, while on the outside there was nothing to indicate that the item hit his face, etc, etc). Then our team lost the game 0-3, and got deducted three points, which led to the next game where we conceived three goals and lost a game for the first time in the season like that. And then at vs AEK, we scored a goal that the referee counted as one and then we witnessed the AEK's player and bench reaction making the referee change his mind and call it offside. Neither the referee or the linesman saw an offside and started thinking of it after AEK started screaming for offside. Instead of give yellow cards to all of them (actually the ones involved in the incident as AEK's goalkeeper and defenders did not even say anything at first) and kick Liberopoulos and the rest from their bench, he sat and listen to their complaints. Savvidis after watching this new circus with a referee calling something based on reactions, decided to go inside as well to take his team out of the field. And now another fabrication is under way to eliminate PAOK for good. And we have Kominis and Aretopoulos changing minds and you AEK and Olympiakos' fans thing it's OK and right. As Olympiakos' fans think what Garcia did was right. As AEK fans think what Dimitriadis is doing is right (changing statements and lying all around).

And all that in two games that Toumba was indeed a church. You want to convince us that Garcia was "hit and injured" and AEK players were "terrified". Sure man! For us, you are POK and I hope Savvidis will go even further and memorable incidents will follow PAOK's unfair punishment that is approaching again. 

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I'll speak how I watched the game(s) on tv vs what has been reported by the mainstream Greek media. Against Olympiakos, I see the teams marching on the field and lining up to start. All of a sudden, there is reports that Garcia is down, and that something hit him. I am thinking "Oh crap, what did they throw?" Then I see the replay of the paper roll, and then I think to myself "Ok not great, but it's just a paper roll. The coach is milking this, but the game will go on as it's not a real injury." This is based on me having witnessed thousands of streamers being thrown at games in Toronto. Sure, a register roll may be harder than streamer but enough to hospitalize someone? And what annoyed me the most is how no one in the mainstream, Athens based media dared call out Garcia for faking the injury. I expected at least someone to say "Really? He's going to the hospital for that???" In that same game, I saw an Olympiakos executive pull his team off the pitch because of said paper roll. He even stated that to the media. Just because someone spits in your face, doesn't mean you can claim you almost drowned.

As for Savvidis, that's the tipping point of tension that had built up. We had the farce with Olympiakos, where somehow we still lost the game 3-0. Then the goal that was waved off in the most ridiculous fashion I have ever seen. So the team president came on to collect his team, just like the Olympiakos vice President did 2 weeks earlier. and because a gun was evident on him, the media took that story and ran with it. And let's be honest, no one knew that gun existed until well after Savvidis left the pitch. So let's not use that as the crutch. 

AEK, like most Greek teams, knows that if any incident happens, the system will reward you for not playing. So AEK found the opportunity with all of the crap that happened with the goal and Savvidis coming on the pitch and milked it. Just like Olympiakos did with the paper roll. If I am PAOK, next year I am hiring someone to throw paper rolls at my team's bench at every away game. And each time it hits my coach, I say pull the team off, and get the forfeit. And don't tell me that's ridiculous as we now have a precedent.

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@Yiankos nice summary.  I have thought the same but have become too lazy to even post about it because it just goes in one ear and out the other.

The truth is that all of the big teams in Greece are a bunch of cry babies.  In the space of 3 weeks we had Olympiakos, AEK and then PAOK threatening to leave or leaving the pitch.  Unbelievable man!  We are at fault you could say for doing the same as Olympiakos and AEK but to our credit we had to be poked many times before Savvidis went donkey kong.

This really is what EPO and the government should try and clean up first.  The behaviour of the presidents and the teams.  The fans is another story and will take more work but we should at least expect the clubs to have a minimum standard of behaviour.  I can't see this happening though.  There is too much hatred and anger now.  Marinakis, Alafouzos, Melissanidis, Savvidis, Kougias what a great bunch of presidents.  Role models the lot of them.

In a proper world :-

- PAOK should be punished for the cash register roll hitting Garcia.

- PAOK should be punished for Savvidis coming onto the pitch.

- PAOK should be punished for Savvidis having a gun on him on the pitch.

- PAOK should be punished for Savvidis attempting to (unsuccessfully) get the team to leave.

- Olympiakos should be punished for leaving the game without permission for the referee.

- Olympiakos should be punished for not following proper protocol regarding doctor's examination of Garcia.

- AEK should be punished for attempting to leave the pitch.

- AEK should be punished for surrounding and threatening the referee to the point he changed his mind.

If all the above was handled properly then Atromitos would win the league and I'd be all right with that.  None of the rest deserve it.  Cry babies the lot of them.

As for punishments for PAOK, based on comments I've read in this forum and other media, I don't think POK fans will be happy unless we are relegated to the 99th division, Savvidis goes to jail for life and every person living in Thessaloniki is forced to pay off the debt of Greece.  Anything less and they'll feel justice wasn't served.  Go figure ...

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1 hour ago, Bananas said:

@Yiankos nice summary.  I have thought the same but have become too lazy to even post about it because it just goes in one ear and out the other.

The truth is that all of the big teams in Greece are a bunch of cry babies.  In the space of 3 weeks we had Olympiakos, AEK and then PAOK threatening to leave or leaving the pitch.  Unbelievable man!  We are at fault you could say for doing the same as Olympiakos and AEK but to our credit we had to be poked many times before Savvidis went donkey kong.

This really is what EPO and the government should try and clean up first.  The behaviour of the presidents and the teams.  The fans is another story and will take more work but we should at least expect the clubs to have a minimum standard of behaviour.  I can't see this happening though.  There is too much hatred and anger now.  Marinakis, Alafouzos, Melissanidis, Savvidis, Kougias what a great bunch of presidents.  Role models the lot of them.

In a proper world :-

- PAOK should be punished for the cash register roll hitting Garcia.

- PAOK should be punished for Savvidis coming onto the pitch.

- PAOK should be punished for Savvidis having a gun on him on the pitch.

- PAOK should be punished for Savvidis attempting to (unsuccessfully) get the team to leave.

- Olympiakos should be punished for leaving the game without permission for the referee.

- Olympiakos should be punished for not following proper protocol regarding doctor's examination of Garcia.

- AEK should be punished for attempting to leave the pitch.

- AEK should be punished for surrounding and threatening the referee to the point he changed his mind.

If all the above was handled properly then Atromitos would win the league and I'd be all right with that.  None of the rest deserve it.  Cry babies the lot of them.

As for punishments for PAOK, based on comments I've read in this forum and other media, I don't think POK fans will be happy unless we are relegated to the 99th division, Savvidis goes to jail for life and every person living in Thessaloniki is forced to pay off the debt of Greece.  Anything less and they'll feel justice wasn't served.  Go figure ...

you are my favourite fellow austrian

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As bananas said, all teams should be punished. But this is Greece.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Athens4 said:

As bananas said, all teams should be punished. But this is Greece.

What would the punishment be? 2 years ban from Europe?   If you punished all 3 teams,  wouldn't level off in the end,  and still have a champion,  plus 2 spots for CL qualifying?

Edited by jvc

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There is only one solution to the Greek football problems. Apply the current rules of the law to all teams fairly and  equally. Not depending on the name of the team. If it takes Grexit to accomplish that then let it be.

We all now this will never happen. Corrupted society = corrupted football.

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Posted (edited)

I think they're at the crossroads now....The top 4 can't do it on their own anymore.  1 choice left....get organized together and put the product first.  If they continue the same coarse,   Greek soccer will hit depths so low....it will take decades to get back up.   I have been saying this for 5 years now....I do sound like a broken record,  but that's the reality....nothing else will work.   BUILD THE PRODUCT TOGETHER!  

We're all focused on who will win the championship....that means nothing with the current conditions.   3 clubs fighting on who will get the 1 or 2 seed....and all for the CL spots.  If they had a product of any interest....the league would be able to market their brand,  thus increasing the revenues....and if they failed to qualify for the CL money their revenues would cover it.  At the moment we have 3 monkeys ******* each other over 1 slice of pie.  If they had more slices,   the back stabbing would not need to happen.   That's the reality of the situation.   

Edited by jvc

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I think the best example is what happened in Germany.  Dortmund was having financial troubles and needed funds, Bayern lent them the money because they knew the German league was stronger with them in it!!

 

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11 minutes ago, Brklyngrk said:

I think the best example is what happened in Germany.  Dortmund was having financial troubles and needed funds, Bayern lent them the money because they knew the German league was stronger with them in it!!

 

Good example.  In Greece it's the opposite.

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Example....Olympiakos a few years back when they were rolling in the CL cash,  and selling players high priced,  did they care about the product first?   Olympiakos went around the league buying young talent,  making them sit on the bench,  or lending to satellite teams,  why did this happen?  The reason is so no others can get stronger and threaten thier empire.  Did they care about the product first?   We also need to understand,  all others would do the same in Greece.  They simply don't know or care about the future,  only for today. 

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Or just look closer to home with POK. They banded together to protect their own interests and this has continued in one form or another. Before, they thought that PAOK didn't matter but now that's not the case and we cannot be ignored . Sadly their (Olympiakos) obsession control and power is so great and because the champions league has been such a cash cow for their owners that they are not interested in a competitive league. This self preservation attitude has caused the product to fail and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Olympiakos have been systematically destroying Greek football and this will take a huge amount of time, effort and trust to look at the bigger picture and rebuild by working together. In saying that i think that bridges have been so badly burned, and as there is less than no trust, It's near impossible to even imagine that scenario happening.

The problem seems to be that corruption, cheating, criminal activity, match fixing etc has left everyone with so much mistrust that there's back stabbing galore. Its like a badly dubbed game of thrones.

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36 minutes ago, DunfermlineAthleticPAOK said:

 

Or just look closer to home with POK. They banded together to protect their own interests and this has continued in one form or another. Before, they thought that PAOK didn't matter but now that's not the case and we cannot be ignored . Sadly their (Olympiakos) obsession control and power is so great and because the champions league has been such a cash cow for their owners that they are not interested in a competitive league. This self preservation attitude has caused the product to fail and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Olympiakos have been systematically destroying Greek football and this will take a huge amount of time, effort and trust to look at the bigger picture and rebuild by working together. In saying that i think that bridges have been so badly burned, and as there is less than no trust, It's near impossible to even imagine that scenario happening.

The problem seems to be that corruption, cheating, criminal activity, match fixing etc has left everyone with so much mistrust that there's back stabbing galore. Its like a badly dubbed game of thrones.

Very well put.

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It's been 11 days since the hearing and still no decision. Apparently they are now waiting until Tsipras ends his visit to Thessaloniki on Wednesday. 

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