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2018-2019 UEFA Nations League C


Argy

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2 minutes ago, tantra129 said:

You are confused with where Karagounis used to play. The formation has also changed from a 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1.  He was where fourtounis is now but you make it sound as if he was the deep lying playmaker. Tziolara replaces players like basinas, Zagorakis and Kats.  Fourtounis replaced Kara.  

 

We have ave many players that can play the #10 and you are right there is a disconnect between linking from the back to the front. So since we have so many #10’s and we are desperately looking for someone to control and create plays from a deep lying CM position, why don’t you try fourtounis there   If he can spring the wingers and the fwd’s   Why can he spring mandalos, wingers and forwards ??

 

But you talk about solutions, samaris is not a solution. Tried and failed. He’s not a playmaker and he’s a pretty useless CM. disappears in matches all the time. Last good game he had was 49 months ago and I was in the stadium to celebrate that goal. 

 

Samaris can come off the bench. That’s it. 

 

Taxi is a way better playmaker than Samaris. And zeca can cover where he lacks in speed. 

Karagounis in his late stages played an 8. You would see him come to our own perioxh and take the ball from goalie/defence to pass it up on offence. That's literally what an 8 does. And imagine the combo of a nowaday Fortounis with then Karagounis.
That would be the deal.
I am not saying Samaris is the solution.
But you are not offering a solution either.
Who instead? Tachtsidis? Also tried and failed. He has reached 28-29 as well they re both not gonna progress.

 

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Given the choices we have, for me, my pick for the box to box player it would be Mantalos.  He is tougher than he appears and has the smarts to force his way into a game.

Having said that all this talk of systems and positions can be misleading.  If we’re playing Belgium we’re playing 8 or 9 behind the ball and we need at least 3 in the middle most of the time.  No box to box here, it’s more box to centre circle.

The other thing is this this talk of replace this player with that player as if they are interchangeable.  Fortounis, Pelkas, Mantalos are all different players.  In and around the box Pelkas is dangerous.  He’s good for a game where Greece will generally attack.  Ask him to be a tradional number 10 and he can’t do it.  It’s just not in him.  Likewise a game where we’re generally defending I think Lazaros becomes much more useful.  He loves the space and running at defenders.

End of the day unless you have a super team like a Belgium you need players and a manager that can adapt because you can’t play the same against Iceland as against Belgium.  I don’t know who the best are for each game/situation (because I don’t study the players full time) but some of Skibbes picks leave me scratching my head.

At the very least select fit players that can run and hustle for 90 minutes (see Iceland in this WC) and you give yourself a fighting chance.  When your team consists of unfit and lazy players what’s chance do you have ?  Toro, Tziolis, Samaris, Taxi, Fourtounis (yes he needs to hustle a lot more), Mitro ... good lord it’s like we’re sending out pensioners.

The only player I’ve seen in recent times that didn’t pull their fair share in terms of running but they can get away with it was Pirlo.  But hey, he’s Pirlo, he can do what he wants ha ha.

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Quite simply put, the usual suspects in midfield have not performed consistently (neither for club nor country). Samaris has his occasional inspired moments mixed in with plenty of listless, tepid play. Same story for Taxi. As for Tziolis, for crying out loud the guy was past it in 2010! how long are we gonna keep trotting him out? And yes I get that these are different players with different skillsets but fact remains we've tried to pigeon-hole each of them as one of the "2" without consistent success. I'm not saying they don't deserve call-ups (except Tziolis who should simply retire), just that they don't deserve to walk into the 11.

And I disagree with Rockafeller's assertion that there's no one better; if we're gonna stick with the 4-2-3-1 then it would behoove us to try others and give them the chance to either sink or swim before going back to the above options. Case in point: guys like Galanopoulos or Kourbelis have not shown themselves to be clearly inferior to the above three and thus should be given a trial next to Zeca. 

 

Now if we're willing to be experimental and move away from the 4-2-3-1, then maybe a different look with a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 is in the cards?

 

------------------------------------------------------------Donis------------------------------------------Mitroglou--------------------------------------

 

Stafylidis---------------------------------------------Mantalos-------------------------------------Zeca-----------------------Christodoulopoulos

 

 

Lykogiannis---------------------------------------------Manolas-------------------------------Sokratis---------------------------------------Retsos

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Karnezis----------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by AEK86
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We will not end up in any conclusion about the midfield. I agree that each game has to be looked at differently but this is the uefa nations league amigo. If we wanna end up 1st in this relatively easy Group (I have said a few times that Finland is not bad, they re the ones I am mostly afraid from anyone), we need good offensive mechanism that takes the pressure away from the defense so that we don't end up conceding a meme goal while we re literally playing alone (Euro 2016 all over again).
Anyways, we wont end up in anything serious about midfield. We definately lack knowledge of modern football as well but there were some delightful things I saw from Tziolis. One and probably the only to be fair, is that he has the ability to pass slow and keep the ball to pause the rhythm. So if we re winning for a goal or two vs a Hungary or Finland I wouldn't mind him comming in at 70+. I ve defended the guy far more than I intended too, I just don't think he deserves such hate. He was part of every NT that qualified the 08-14 era so all these coaches (amongst them there are 2 that won a Euro Otto and Santos) picked him. 

I just came here, after the Paok Match, to say that this Limnios guy should dethrone Mantalos right now. Winger, who helps his Fullback all the time (in fact for every1 who watched, he was defending more than Leo Matos), one of the key players in both legs vs Basel. I know Basel is not what they were last season before January (sold about 6 starters since the last CL groups where they were prob the best team in their Group) but they re definately not GSL tier, and the fact that Luzsku with so many wingers has decided to start this kiddo in both legs (and the previous year also played lots of games ahead of Robert Mak) I think he s got what the NT needs.

Can man to man better than Mantalos and is a lot faster than Lazaros. He also defends which is what Skibbe wants from his "wingers". I want him in and I believe his name will be in the call ups at least.

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59 minutes ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

We will not end up in any conclusion about the midfield. I agree that each game has to be looked at differently but this is the uefa nations league amigo. If we wanna end up 1st in this relatively easy Group (I have said a few times that Finland is not bad, they re the ones I am mostly afraid from anyone), we need good offensive mechanism that takes the pressure away from the defense so that we don't end up conceding a meme goal while we re literally playing alone (Euro 2016 all over again).
Anyways, we wont end up in anything serious about midfield. We definately lack knowledge of modern football as well but there were some delightful things I saw from Tziolis. One and probably the only to be fair, is that he has the ability to pass slow and keep the ball to pause the rhythm. So if we re winning for a goal or two vs a Hungary or Finland I wouldn't mind him comming in at 70+. I ve defended the guy far more than I intended too, I just don't think he deserves such hate. He was part of every NT that qualified the 08-14 era so all these coaches (amongst them there are 2 that won a Euro Otto and Santos) picked him. 

I just came here, after the Paok Match, to say that this Limnios guy should dethrone Mantalos right now. Winger, who helps his Fullback all the time (in fact for every1 who watched, he was defending more than Leo Matos), one of the key players in both legs vs Basel. I know Basel is not what they were last season before January (sold about 6 starters since the last CL groups where they were prob the best team in their Group) but they re definately not GSL tier, and the fact that Luzsku with so many wingers has decided to start this kiddo in both legs (and the previous year also played lots of games ahead of Robert Mak) I think he s got what the NT needs.

Can man to man better than Mantalos and is a lot faster than Lazaros. He also defends which is what Skibbe wants from his "wingers". I want him in and I believe his name will be in the call ups at least.

did you see the AEK-galatasaray game? Mantalos also score in AEKs victory via free kick and 1 assist to Bakasetas as well. It was just a friendly though but gala is a way better team than Basel. Mantalos should also be played centrally. Limnios is a winger and Donis/Lazaros/Fetfa are all superior than Limnios atm.

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1 minute ago, georgelaz said:

did you see the AEK-galatasaray game? Mantalos also score in AEKs victory via free kick and 1 assist to Bakasetas as well. It was just a friendly though but gala is a way better team than Basel. Mantalos should also be played centrally. Limnios is a winger and Donis/Lazaros/Fetfa are all superior than Limnios atm.

Did Galanopoulos play?I am sure Limnios will make it to the squad. Lazaros not so sure, depends on what happens with the AEK issue, he might literally not play for another season which is a career ending basically.

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35 minutes ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

Did Galanopoulos play?I am sure Limnios will make it to the squad. Lazaros not so sure, depends on what happens with the AEK issue, he might literally not play for another season which is a career ending basically.

galanopoulos played the full 90. what do you mean lazaros with AEK issue? he's with oly now and scored a few goals in oly's friendlies. edit; unless he's injured which apparently happened on transfermarket. unfortunate. fetfa is looking good tho

Edited by georgelaz
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I talked about Limnios in the other thread, him and Donis should be our starting wingers in the upcoming games. Lazaros is more solid when he comes off the bench so he'll provide us energy in the second half that we really lack. The other winger could be.

Also at the moment we seen to have 3 more or less equally good attacking midfielders in Pelkas, Mantalos and Fortounis. Imo Pelkas should be starting atm with Fortounis coming off the bench and Mantalos could be also used as a number 8 player.

Mitroglou and Karelis to play up front.

Our midfield should be Galanopoulos-Samaris-Tachtsidis-Kourmpelis and Zeca.

Sokratis-Manolas-Retsos-Mavropanos the CB line up, with Mpakakis, Stafylidis, Torosidis and Lykogiannis being the full backs. 

Karnezis-Mparkas the main goalkeeping duo, I hope Kapino takes his chances in Werder but I am doubtful about that. Gianniotis as a third choice.

I believe that's a good squad to call up. 

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6 hours ago, georgelaz said:

galanopoulos played the full 90. what do you mean lazaros with AEK issue? he's with oly now and scored a few goals in oly's friendlies. edit; unless he's injured which apparently happened on transfermarket. unfortunate. fetfa is looking good tho

Fetfa has looked good? I haven't seen any Oly games, glad to hear this. 

 

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5 hours ago, Argy said:

Fetfa has looked good? I haven't seen any Oly games, glad to hear this. 

 

Probably false alarm. Olympiakos whenever played with a decent team that we consider "their level" has lost big score. Genk, PSV. They only won a bottom tier team of the Romanian Liga 5-0 and the rest of the games were draws or losses by a goal vs mediocre-bottom Belgian sides.
I find it hard to say that Fetfa has been looking good when team offensive mechanism is clearly nonexistent.

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Every time Lazaros entered the field Aek were more dangerous and had more chances to score. 

Calling a player consistent doesn't mean he'll be scoring goals week in and week out especially talking about a winger. You don't expect from today's wingers to be regular scorers but but creating opportunities. 

Despite that I think he scored more than 10 goals in the last season.

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26 minutes ago, AchillesHeel said:

Μάλλον δεν θυμάσαι καλά....look up his stats.

Truth is Lazaros hasn't performed that well for the NT but he was the big player for AEK throughout the season...and arguably the best player in the league last year.

he looked great for NT last season but was only give chunks like 30-45 minutes. He was good for us circa 2014 too and his selfishness sometimes is good because no one wants to take responsibility. Though he shouldve made a second pass vs. costa rica it def served AEK. Gorgeous scissor kick vs. oly

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7 hours ago, AchillesHeel said:

I don't know about you guys but I'd like to see some consistency in a player's game before putting him in as a starter....Limnios had a good game against Basel but hasn't yet achieved the game in game out consistency to be considered over Donis or Lazaros...yet. He seems to have the tools to do well but hasn't shown the stability...yet....hopefully this will be his breakout year. Fetfa still has to prove himself in the GSL again to be taken seriously....that remains to be seen. One player who has been overlooked in the midfield is Vasilakakis....a contemporary of Ninis and Fetfa who unlike the other 2 has been quietly performing very well in the GSL while the other 2 dropped off the map but keep drawing all the attention from this forum. I honestly think that for the NT to perform better it will take a different system than the 4-2-3-1 but I doubt Skibbe will deviate from this....best we can hope for is that Tziolis doesn't start.

 

I agree with much of this.

Limnios 100% agree. Likewise Donis & Lazaros.

I feel Lazaros needs more game time on the NT, it’s being very speradic and it’s hard to get in a rythem when the team plays so flat at times. Against Egypt we actually played with some movement and we saw what happened.

Personally, with some of the guys Skibbe picks, I think it’s a shame Fetfa doesn’t get a look in. The team needs movement and off the ball runs, he and Pelkas provide this in drones and we see many others who don’t, this kills us, we need these guys there.

Totally agree about Vasilakakis also 

 

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Let’s also not forget, Lazaros was only used later in the season for NT when he should have being picked for many more games earlier in the campaign but that is Skibbe. Like wise Bakakis & Pelkas

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George Laz,

I always love your lineups. Hopefully Skibbe will read these boards and pay attention! Only two players I would change are Karnezis. I would go Pashalakis or Barkas hands down. Both are in form and Karnezis is not. Also Fortounis, I would not start him right now. I would go definitely Mantalos after his performance vs Gala or Pelkas. Fortounis has to win back his starting spot.

 

 

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I am gonna disagree with everyone. I do not rate Lazaros. And the fact that he is 32 soon pinpoints that there is no point to having him as a starter. Id rather give a shot to younger players at the wings. Next Euro Laz will be 34. Toro will be 35. We need the replacements getting integrated in the teams slowly but we need them.

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On 8/4/2018 at 12:22 PM, Makynia said:

Only two players I would change are Karnezis. I would go Pashalakis or Barkas hands down. Both are in form and Karnezis is not. Also Fortounis, I would not start him right now. I would go definitely Mantalos after his performance vs Gala or Pelkas. Fortounis has to win back his starting spot.

I whole hartetly agree. 

Skibbe just can’t keep doing the same thing over and over, need to play to form

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On 8/5/2018 at 8:03 PM, Rockafeller Skank said:

I am gonna disagree with everyone. I do not rate Lazaros. And the fact that he is 32 soon pinpoints that there is no point to having him as a starter. Id rather give a shot to younger players at the wings. Next Euro Laz will be 34. Toro will be 35. We need the replacements getting integrated in the teams slowly but we need them.

I raise your disagree and doubly disagree with your sir!  Ha ha ha, on a serious note you’re being a bit brutal on Lazaro.  He was hands down, I mean by a fair margin, the best player in the GSL last year.  I’ll accept that his age could mean maybe he should not be considered for the NT.  But right now, he’s most definitely good enough.  I don’t know what happened to him since he returned from Serie A, but it’s like something clicked in his brain and he finally “gets” the game.

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lazaros is a vital piece of a team that lacks wingers. i don't know why you are being harsh on  him, it's not like we have a plethora of better choices than him. donis, limnios and lazaros should definitely be 3 out of 4 wingers and those who will take the most time in the pitch. gianniotas or fetfatzidis could be the 4th option but i don't rate any of them so as long as they're behind in the rotation i don't have a problem with them having a supporting role.

mparkas-karnezis-gianniotis

lykogiannis-torosidis

sokratis-mavropanos

manolas-siovas(retsos)

stafylidis-mpakakis

zeca-galanopoulos-tachtsidis

samaris-kourmpelis

donis-gianniotas

pelkas-fortounis-mantalos

lazaros-limnios

mitroglou-karelis

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Why is so much emphasis being put on age? These tournaments come few and far in between. If there’s a player who’s 55 and can help then you put him in. If he’s 12 and he can help you put him in. National teams shouldn’t be developing players for the future. That’s the clubs job. National teams should take their best 22 and field the best team they can every game. 

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karagounis was like 36-37 when he launched us into the euro quarters 

boufonn was closing 40 as juventus got into CL final

holebas is tearing up the premier league at 33

Ronaldo is 33 and may take Juve to a champions league title.

 

If a player is performing they are performing.

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