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Croatia - Greece ( Round 2, 1st Leg, 9 Nov. 2017, Stadion Maksimir, Zagreb )

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1 hour ago, Megas said:

... and another thing is im sick and tired of greeks taking club football so serious. this is where it counts for Godsake world cups & European cups. Club football comes no where near national team football. As an ethnos we hugely have problems amongst ourselves I couldn't care less who wins the championship it means nothing when you win it with 10 foreigners produce some players.

You will get lots of backlash for this. I think this all depends on the culture in which you grew up, both societal and domestic. Lots of people inherited love for their club from a parent or grandparent and grew up watching matches on Sundays. Truth is, there is a lot more action in club football as they play often, and gives a lot more for people to discuss. This was also rooted in the old days when most players in the league were Greek. Pre-2004 our NT didn't give Greeks much to cheer about and before the internet it was pretty hard to keep tabs on international football.

Even thought this point in my life, I feel a lot more connection with the Greek NT than any club, loyalty to a club is a personal sentiment and it is more than legitimate. 

Edited by Argy

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i can't describe how depressed, emotionally drained and embarrassed i am with how we played, more than this result

 

this is a result that equals the Faroe ISLAND adventure

 

we played like a bunch of hopeless hesmena mounia. thank god we wore blue, because if we were wearing white, you would see plenty of steaks on the white shortsakia. what kind of pass did tzavelas make to begin the fiasco? how was his man marking on the second? on this play samaris lets his man go for a little jog, sokratis tries to cover him and let's his man for tzavellas who is looking to bum a smoke.  why are people blaming maniatis for this one again?   SAMARIS again out of position ..... clown ........ ahhhh and the third ...who's to blame again? the common denominators.

 

WHAT was skibbster thinking? formation wise?

 

we started a bunch of vaginas... and i'm going easy on them

samaris? tzavellas? tziolara? maniatis?

 

stafilidis was s%$#!... but we don't have many other options....call jose Skibbarouni

 

we put mom zeca on the right wing?  is skibbe still doing oktoberfest coke??--- YOU're FIRED ... F*** off

 

have we no pride? have we no honour? a portogalo bled more for this team than anybody else?

 

biggest games of the campaign and we were just not ready. croatia did their homework. they ordered their players to press us up high and create turnovers. we ordered champagnes, poura and louloudia for sunday night .....  

this will hurt for a very long time

 

EMBARRASSING . -- 

 

Πηγή έμπνευσης για βιτριολικά σχόλια από τους twitterάδες αποτέλεσε η συντριβή της Εθνικής από την Κροατία στο Ζάγκρεμπ. Η Ρωσία που έγινε... Μύκονος, η έξοδος του Κουφοντίνα, τ' αδέρφια Αντετοκούνμπο που δεν παίζουν μπάλα, ο Τζιόλης που μαζεύει ελιές και ο Σαλπιγγίδης έγιναν trends στη διάρκεια του αγώνα.

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nice sxolia from a contra user

 

 

Στο ποδόσφαιρο, όσον αφορά τις εθνικές ομάδες, υπάρχει άγραφος νόμος: 
"δεν παίζεις στο σύλλογό σου, δεν παίζεις και στην εθνική της χώρας σου"... 
Μόνο στην Ελλάδα δεν ισχύει αυτό... 
Παίζει ο Καρνέζης που έφυγε παγκίτης από την Ουντινέζε, για να πάει παγκίτης στην Αγγλία... Αναπληρωματικός ο Καπίνο, παγκίτης στον Ολυμπιακό... 
Ο Τζιόλης έχει από το 2010 να παίξει έστω και σε ημισοβαρό πρωτάθλημα... 
Ο Μπαγκασέτας είναι στην ΑΕΚ αναπληρωματικός του Χριστοδουλόπουλου... Προσέξτε το εξής παράδοξο: ο Σκίμπε εμπιστεύεται από τα αριστερά τον Μπακασέτα αλλά δεν εμπιστεύεται αυτόν τον οποίον αναπληρ
ώνει ο Μπακασέτας στο σύλλογό του!!! Παγκόσμια πρωτοτυπία!!! 
Ο Κυριάκος Παπαδόπουλος, έχει 5-6 χρόνια ραυματίας ο φουκαράς...
Έρχεται μετά και το σταριλίκι βεβαίως βεβαίως... 
Ο Φορτούνης έριξε τέτοιο περπάτημα σήμερα στον αγωνιστικό χώρο, που πρέπει να διδάσκεται στα κέντρα υπερλιπιδαιμιας σε αυτούς που έχουν πρόβλημα με χοληστερίνη και τριγλυκερίδια... Ακόμη και ο Κατσουράνης έτρεχε περισσότερο... 
Από πού να ξεκινήσεις και πού να σταματήσεις....
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It was embarrassing right up there with the Faroes matches but this was the first game of a playoff tie to go to the WorldCup and the team was unorganized and most were not giving it there all on the field. Samaris, Tzavellas, Tziolis, Staf, Fortounis, Karnezis were abysmal as was our coach! The players were talking about securing a World Cup spot for there injured teammate Mandalos and this is the match they played. Absolute Garbage!

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honestly did not expect this bad of a performance thoughh. it is shocking copping 4. We only ever copped 2 from belgium in one game. everything else was 1 or 0.

manolas out was a huge loss. I do think his presence would have prevented a goal or two.

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2 hours ago, Megas said:

... and another thing is im sick and tired of greeks taking club football so serious. this is where it counts for Godsake world cups & European cups. Club football comes no where near national team football. As an ethnos we hugely have problems amongst ourselves I couldn't care less who wins the championship it means nothing when you win it with 10 foreigners produce some players.

Best post in the history of this forum. Well said, Megas

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41 minutes ago, Ellada2004 said:

It was embarrassing right up there with the Faroes matches but this was the first game of a playoff tie to go to the WorldCup and the team was unorganized and most were not giving it there all on the field. Samaris, Tzavellas, Tziolis, Staf, Fortounis, Karnezis were abysmal as was our coach! The players were talking about securing a World Cup spot for there injured teammate Mandalos and this is the match they played. Absolute Garbage!

skimpe.jpg

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Guys we can talk about how we played over the 90 but for me the early goal was what changed the game.  It gave them confidence and sank our players a bit.  You just cannot gift your opponent a goal like that so early in their home stadium.  Especially when they have talented players, a more talented side in general.  It went from there. 

Poor overall for sure.  Disappointing.  This was a tough draw for us.  Maybe tougher than Italy which would maybe have been a tighter low scoring affair.  I will say that certain players were exposed for the average players they are.  Maniatis and Tsavellas on the flanks.  Not good enough against an opponent like that.  In the middle not enough quality to turn and create.  

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Hi guys. Just joined the forum, I think it's great. Lots of awesome options & discussions. Wanted to add my 2 cents after what I saw today.

Putting a national team together is not easy. We saw with Ranieri that you can't just tinker with players and formations every match. That blew up right in our faces. We've had the most success from our current coach, Santos & Rehagael: they all had a closed club of players that continually got called up to play together for the Ethniki. But, I think there is an important balance that needs to be made here. I believe the Greeks who are in their best form should play; thus, you could argue having your set closed club of players is important, but the coach must also take into account current form. We saw at the end of the Rehagael era, and currently with Skibbe, that there are players in this closed club who are not in form. So this needs to be addressed properly. Obviously we don't need another Ranieri tenure; I think the lesson was learned there. But when you're facing world class players, you have to put your best out there. Maybe making the call ups more competitive somehow would actually get those who WANT to play for the national team and won't just WALK around the whole game. Some players have learned well as we can see. Their spots go untouched...

One reason why we have a problem here is that many of our Greek players are inconsistent. Why? (Let's exclude Sokratis, Manolas, Zeca from this). Injuries come along yes, but how can other players in the game give 100% more often than a lot of our best Greek players? Am I wrong guys? Especially in a game like today's, one of the most important in their careers one could argue.

Fortounis was playing as a right winger in the last Euro if I remember correctly. Maybe he's not made to be a number 10? This kid has some games and he blows me away. Most of the time now tho he's like a dead beat. I just don't understand it. One thing I haven't seen anyone talk about aside from the more common out- of- form guys playing on the team (Samaris, Maniatis, Tachtsidis, Vellios etc.) Is Stafylidis. He has only played ONE match this whole year. There have been 10 bundesliga matches. Most of the time he hasn't even been on the bench. What's the story here? Are we losing another of our "talents"? How do you go from playing 38 matches for Fulham not too long ago, to this? Do these guys have some self defeatist, learned helplessness psichologiko complex?

Give me a whole team of Sokratis Papastathopoulo's. That's the passion I want. Zeca wasn't even born in Greece and he's yelling the national anthem and giving his all every single match.

Whenever I look at our national team, I see a bunch of puzzle pieces that if we can just get right, we could be phenonomenal. I think it's there and the right moves have to be made. This however goes even deeper: our domestic league needs fixing, support is needed for our greek talents, bolstering our academies... etc. etc. The new EPO has a lot of work to do.

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there are no serious academies. It’s all garbage  

Like everything else in Greece, it’s who will cash in first. Kick the Can down the road and no player development. 

 

when it comes to Player development,  there are many shadow organizations that make decisions, have the right contacts and cash in quickly  

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2 hours ago, tantra129 said:

there are no serious academies. It’s all garbage  

Like everything else in Greece, it’s who will cash in first. Kick the Can down the road and no player development. 

 

when it comes to Player development,  there are many shadow organizations that make decisions, have the right contacts and cash in quickly  

Hence why greece is full of prodotes

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Our depth is killing us. This is why Samaris and Fortounis are not playing well. Gianniotas should of came on in the 2nd half. His grit and speed was needed. It's a shame. I don't know how we will play on Sunday but I feel like we will give 1000%. We didn't look like our usual selves. Since the first minute something was wrong. We had no one in attack. How can Papadopoulos square a pass to Mitroglou in that angle? What did was the best thing he could do. Zeca makes me proud. He is not even Greek but showed so much heart and passion. I wish Fortounis showed the same urgency.

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Tziolaris, Samaris Tzavellas, Arab, Vellios and for now Stafylidis sit out and new fresh players in the squad from now. Skibbe to follow them. The new World cup campaign starts now for 2022.

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stafylidis has been one of our most consistent players, we won't demand his departure(!) for a single mistake. after all he's only 23 for god's sake, what do you mean by bringing in fresh players? 

those who need to be kicked out are; 

tziolis, tzavellas, maniatis, vellios, gianniotas, diamantakos. all of them are non factors in awful clubs. 

bring in charisis and mpakakis

anyways it's almost done so that's my list going on to the nations league next september; 

starters; 

karnezis, torosidis, sokratis, manolas, stafylidis, zeca, kourmpelis, donis, fortounis, mantalos, mitroglou

bench;

kapino, mpakakis, papadopoulos, retsos, lykogiannis, samaris, charisis, tachtsidis, lazaros, mpakasetas,, karelis.

 

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We need a coach who agrees with us, if we don't get this there is no point of listing players of who's in and who's out. 

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The usual culprits in Kourbelis, Androutsos, Manthatis ,Pelkas, Lamprou, Limnios, Vlahomid, Siopis, Bouchalakis. Reconsidering Fetfa and Ninis too.

Give new ones an extended run. The others did not work obviously.

Edited by ausgreek

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I agree ausgreek. What has happened with Samaris? He is no where the player he was 2 years ago. Has he lost the passion for the sport? 

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Lambrou and Limnios need to become decent GSL players before getting a call up...

Let's not forget that we have to set our sights on Euro 2020 qualifying befre we even think about WC 2022

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I'm still absoloutly embarrassed and stunned.... we didn't even look this bad in our last euro qualifier.. I think this needs to be a reality check that ever since the last World Cup we have completely gone down hill and I have to agree with some of the previous posters that we may be missing tournaments for years to come.. very depressing...

Edited by J1078

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9 hours ago, tantra129 said:

we played like a bunch of hopeless hesmena mounia. thank god we wore blue, because if we were wearing white, you would see plenty of steaks on the white shortsakia.

now THATS some funny a** sh**..........lol lol lol   ----------- all you guys make great points...

now with the benefit of a day to reflect here are my thoughts: 

big picture: we are an average to above average team that MUST play an "A" game collectively to compete against the bigger, better sides. (see Belgium 1-1 draw)  The more "talent" the bigger margin of error, so you can play a "B" game and still win...not us with this group of players. 

bigger Philosophical picture: traditionally, our soccer mentality and identity never includes an attacking style, rather we (against bigger teams) ALWAYS sit back and try to absorb pressure and really start getting going after about 20 minutes....(see Germany 4-2 loss a while back as an example)  This allows the other team to dictate the pace of the game and allows THEM to put THEIR stamp on the pitch

Why? CONFIDENCE, and a feeling of inferiority......Look how we came out against GIbralter vs. yesterday...why? we feared Croatia's offense and elected to sit back, giving them WAY more resepct than they deserved. 

smaller picture: our midfield absolutely SUCKS. no movement , no off the ball tactics, no attacking open spaces, no creativity ---its like nobody wanted the ball yesterday ----how many times did we kick it back to swiss cheese karnezis (who is awful by the way) 

coach: i know sokratis said dont blame the coach, but im sorry coach should put u in the best position to be successful. Not only did he not do that, but when it became obvious to EVERYONE that we needed to press higher up - especially after 4-1 he does very little to flip the script. Why was this SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOO bad? Aside form the obvious, the few chances we had (and they were not great chances) each time the Croat defense looked very very shaky. As a coach u need to see that, evaluate it and adjust in the moment....he did not do that. 

Now im sure many will say "ah, we gave them two gifts, etc. etc. etc. but thats even more reason for the coach to make adjustments....we simply dont have the luxury of making many mistakes in one game. and thats what happened yesterday.

Kpap and Maniatis were SSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO behind every play they go burned on it was laughable....

Its the worst big, important game i've seen in along long time....

manolas, donis, toro, mantalos and we are going back to AThens with a 80% chance to qualify. Without those guys well, u c what happened...I did not thinl one guy (manolas) could make such a big difference but his absence was HUGE. Two goals dont go in if he was there....

so you put all these things together and its a recipe for disaster. 

 

SO what now:

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK........WE are very capable of winning 3-0.....Can we? Well, just like we had a stinker of a game, so can the Croats. I said this BEFORE the game yesterday, fearing the strategy that they always employ, and unfortunately thats what happened.

We have to put fresh legs to chase the ball, pressure them and just press forward for 90 plus minutes. Their defense is shaky and with the right amount of pressure I know we can score a few goals WHILE KEEPING THEIR OFFENSE out of our zone.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, tantra129 said:

i can't describe how depressed, emotionally drained and embarrassed i am with how we played, more than this result

 

this is a result that equals the Faroe ISLAND adventure

 

we played like a bunch of hopeless hesmena mounia. thank god we wore blue, because if we were wearing white, you would see plenty of steaks on the white shortsakia. what kind of pass did tzavelas make to begin the fiasco? how was his man marking on the second? on this play samaris lets his man go for a little jog, sokratis tries to cover him and let's his man for tzavellas who is looking to bum a smoke.  why are people blaming maniatis for this one again?   SAMARIS again out of position ..... clown ........ ahhhh and the third ...who's to blame again? the common denominators.

 

WHAT was skibbster thinking? formation wise?

 

we started a bunch of vaginas... and i'm going easy on them

samaris? tzavellas? tziolara? maniatis?

 

stafilidis was s%$#!... but we don't have many other options....call jose Skibbarouni

 

we put mom zeca on the right wing?  is skibbe still doing oktoberfest coke??--- YOU're FIRED ... F*** off

 

have we no pride? have we no honour? a portogalo bled more for this team than anybody else?

 

biggest games of the campaign and we were just not ready. croatia did their homework. they ordered their players to press us up high and create turnovers. we ordered champagnes, poura and louloudia for sunday night .....  

this will hurt for a very long time

 

EMBARRASSING . -- 

 

Πηγή έμπνευσης για βιτριολικά σχόλια από τους twitterάδες αποτέλεσε η συντριβή της Εθνικής από την Κροατία στο Ζάγκρεμπ. Η Ρωσία που έγινε... Μύκονος, η έξοδος του Κουφοντίνα, τ' αδέρφια Αντετοκούνμπο που δεν παίζουν μπάλα, ο Τζιόλης που μαζεύει ελιές και ο Σαλπιγγίδης έγιναν trends στη διάρκεια του αγώνα.

Croatia were at a different class to Greece. A complete different level.  Croatia have players whom are playing regular for FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan etc while Greece’s players with the exception of Sokratis Papastathopoulos & Kostas Manolas are currently at smaller clubs & most not playing regular if any football.

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19 minutes ago, Greekaroos said:

Croatia were at a different class to Greece. A complete different level.  Croatia have players whom are playing regular for FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan etc while Greece’s players with the exception of Sokratis Papastathopoulos & Kostas Manolas are currently at smaller clubs & most not playing regular if any football.

finally someone talked about that. you can't call up players like vellios, gianniotas, diamantakos, tziolis, maniatis and tzavellas. how worse would lykogiannis be if he had started instead of tzavellas, or mpakakis instead of maniatis? 

btw yesterday since we wanted a goal skibbe had to put a forward in order to achieve that, aka karelis. but no he's out of the squad so when you look on the bench and see you have only vellios and diamantakos you must be depressed. im happy once donis and karelis return these dudes will be lost once and for all.

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26 minutes ago, bbaw said:

now THATS some funny a** sh**..........lol lol lol   ----------- all you guys make great points...

now with the benefit of a day to reflect here are my thoughts: 

big picture: we are an average to above average team that MUST play an "A" game collectively to compete against the bigger, better sides. (see Belgium 1-1 draw)  The more "talent" the bigger margin of error, so you can play a "B" game and still win...not us with this group of players. 

bigger Philosophical picture: traditionally, our soccer mentality and identity never includes an attacking style, rather we (against bigger teams) ALWAYS sit back and try to absorb pressure and really start getting going after about 20 minutes....(see Germany 4-2 loss a while back as an example)  This allows the other team to dictate the pace of the game and allows THEM to put THEIR stamp on the pitch

Why? CONFIDENCE, and a feeling of inferiority......Look how we came out against GIbralter vs. yesterday...why? we feared Croatia's offense and elected to sit back, giving them WAY more resepct than they deserved. 

smaller picture: our midfield absolutely SUCKS. no movement , no off the ball tactics, no attacking open spaces, no creativity ---its like nobody wanted the ball yesterday ----how many times did we kick it back to swiss cheese karnezis (who is awful by the way) 

coach: i know sokratis said dont blame the coach, but im sorry coach should put u in the best position to be successful. Not only did he not do that, but when it became obvious to EVERYONE that we needed to press higher up - especially after 4-1 he does very little to flip the script. Why was this SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOO bad? Aside form the obvious, the few chances we had (and they were not great chances) each time the Croat defense looked very very shaky. As a coach u need to see that, evaluate it and adjust in the moment....he did not do that. 

Now im sure many will say "ah, we gave them two gifts, etc. etc. etc. but thats even more reason for the coach to make adjustments....we simply dont have the luxury of making many mistakes in one game. and thats what happened yesterday.

Kpap and Maniatis were SSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO behind every play they go burned on it was laughable....

Its the worst big, important game i've seen in along long time....

manolas, donis, toro, mantalos and we are going back to AThens with a 80% chance to qualify. Without those guys well, u c what happened...I did not thinl one guy (manolas) could make such a big difference but his absence was HUGE. Two goals dont go in if he was there....

so you put all these things together and its a recipe for disaster. 

 

SO what now:

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK........WE are very capable of winning 3-0.....Can we? Well, just like we had a stinker of a game, so can the Croats. I said this BEFORE the game yesterday, fearing the strategy that they always employ, and unfortunately thats what happened.

We have to put fresh legs to chase the ball, pressure them and just press forward for 90 plus minutes. Their defense is shaky and with the right amount of pressure I know we can score a few goals WHILE KEEPING THEIR OFFENSE out of our zone.

 

 

 

 

I think if we kept it at 3-1 then maybe we could pull it off with some luck but to ask Greece to go out and get 3 goals in 90mn against Croatia is a pipe dream... If we get a 2-0 lead before half time then we can talk but for now its OVER. The only team we scored more then 2 goals against was Gibraltar the entire campaign. I'm not expecting a full stadium anymore on Sunday... This is going to be so depressing when the fifa draw for the world cup groups and even worse when the world cup starts this summer... 

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56 minutes ago, J1078 said:

I'm still absoloutly embarrassed and stunned.... we didn't even look this bad in our last euro qualifier.. I think this needs to be a reality check that ever since the last World Cup we have completely gone down hill and I have to agree with some of the previous posters that we may be missing tournaments for years to come.. very depressing...

we'll need to step up again and beat our pot 1 and pot 2 opposition in the qualifying group in order to qualify for a tournament, and slowly start reaching the point we were 3 years ago. this way we'll be back in pot 1 with easier draws coming up. nations league is a good chance to begin with since aside of serbia we're at the same level with the rest of the teams. it's a good chance to reach the final because this way we pretty much lock up our position in the euros since serbia could also qualify there via the original qualification. us, i doubt, so that's our time to bounce back. 

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