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Croatia - Greece ( Round 2, 1st Leg, 9 Nov. 2017, Stadion Maksimir, Zagreb )


Greekaroos

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9 hours ago, tantra129 said:

we played like a bunch of hopeless hesmena mounia. thank god we wore blue, because if we were wearing white, you would see plenty of steaks on the white shortsakia.

now THATS some funny a** sh**..........lol lol lol   ----------- all you guys make great points...

now with the benefit of a day to reflect here are my thoughts: 

big picture: we are an average to above average team that MUST play an "A" game collectively to compete against the bigger, better sides. (see Belgium 1-1 draw)  The more "talent" the bigger margin of error, so you can play a "B" game and still win...not us with this group of players. 

bigger Philosophical picture: traditionally, our soccer mentality and identity never includes an attacking style, rather we (against bigger teams) ALWAYS sit back and try to absorb pressure and really start getting going after about 20 minutes....(see Germany 4-2 loss a while back as an example)  This allows the other team to dictate the pace of the game and allows THEM to put THEIR stamp on the pitch

Why? CONFIDENCE, and a feeling of inferiority......Look how we came out against GIbralter vs. yesterday...why? we feared Croatia's offense and elected to sit back, giving them WAY more resepct than they deserved. 

smaller picture: our midfield absolutely SUCKS. no movement , no off the ball tactics, no attacking open spaces, no creativity ---its like nobody wanted the ball yesterday ----how many times did we kick it back to swiss cheese karnezis (who is awful by the way) 

coach: i know sokratis said dont blame the coach, but im sorry coach should put u in the best position to be successful. Not only did he not do that, but when it became obvious to EVERYONE that we needed to press higher up - especially after 4-1 he does very little to flip the script. Why was this SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOO bad? Aside form the obvious, the few chances we had (and they were not great chances) each time the Croat defense looked very very shaky. As a coach u need to see that, evaluate it and adjust in the moment....he did not do that. 

Now im sure many will say "ah, we gave them two gifts, etc. etc. etc. but thats even more reason for the coach to make adjustments....we simply dont have the luxury of making many mistakes in one game. and thats what happened yesterday.

Kpap and Maniatis were SSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO behind every play they go burned on it was laughable....

Its the worst big, important game i've seen in along long time....

manolas, donis, toro, mantalos and we are going back to AThens with a 80% chance to qualify. Without those guys well, u c what happened...I did not thinl one guy (manolas) could make such a big difference but his absence was HUGE. Two goals dont go in if he was there....

so you put all these things together and its a recipe for disaster. 

 

SO what now:

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK........WE are very capable of winning 3-0.....Can we? Well, just like we had a stinker of a game, so can the Croats. I said this BEFORE the game yesterday, fearing the strategy that they always employ, and unfortunately thats what happened.

We have to put fresh legs to chase the ball, pressure them and just press forward for 90 plus minutes. Their defense is shaky and with the right amount of pressure I know we can score a few goals WHILE KEEPING THEIR OFFENSE out of our zone.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, tantra129 said:

i can't describe how depressed, emotionally drained and embarrassed i am with how we played, more than this result

 

this is a result that equals the Faroe ISLAND adventure

 

we played like a bunch of hopeless hesmena mounia. thank god we wore blue, because if we were wearing white, you would see plenty of steaks on the white shortsakia. what kind of pass did tzavelas make to begin the fiasco? how was his man marking on the second? on this play samaris lets his man go for a little jog, sokratis tries to cover him and let's his man for tzavellas who is looking to bum a smoke.  why are people blaming maniatis for this one again?   SAMARIS again out of position ..... clown ........ ahhhh and the third ...who's to blame again? the common denominators.

 

WHAT was skibbster thinking? formation wise?

 

we started a bunch of vaginas... and i'm going easy on them

samaris? tzavellas? tziolara? maniatis?

 

stafilidis was s%$#!... but we don't have many other options....call jose Skibbarouni

 

we put mom zeca on the right wing?  is skibbe still doing oktoberfest coke??--- YOU're FIRED ... F*** off

 

have we no pride? have we no honour? a portogalo bled more for this team than anybody else?

 

biggest games of the campaign and we were just not ready. croatia did their homework. they ordered their players to press us up high and create turnovers. we ordered champagnes, poura and louloudia for sunday night .....  

this will hurt for a very long time

 

EMBARRASSING . -- 

 

Πηγή έμπνευσης για βιτριολικά σχόλια από τους twitterάδες αποτέλεσε η συντριβή της Εθνικής από την Κροατία στο Ζάγκρεμπ. Η Ρωσία που έγινε... Μύκονος, η έξοδος του Κουφοντίνα, τ' αδέρφια Αντετοκούνμπο που δεν παίζουν μπάλα, ο Τζιόλης που μαζεύει ελιές και ο Σαλπιγγίδης έγιναν trends στη διάρκεια του αγώνα.

Croatia were at a different class to Greece. A complete different level.  Croatia have players whom are playing regular for FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan etc while Greece’s players with the exception of Sokratis Papastathopoulos & Kostas Manolas are currently at smaller clubs & most not playing regular if any football.

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19 minutes ago, Greekaroos said:

Croatia were at a different class to Greece. A complete different level.  Croatia have players whom are playing regular for FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan etc while Greece’s players with the exception of Sokratis Papastathopoulos & Kostas Manolas are currently at smaller clubs & most not playing regular if any football.

finally someone talked about that. you can't call up players like vellios, gianniotas, diamantakos, tziolis, maniatis and tzavellas. how worse would lykogiannis be if he had started instead of tzavellas, or mpakakis instead of maniatis? 

btw yesterday since we wanted a goal skibbe had to put a forward in order to achieve that, aka karelis. but no he's out of the squad so when you look on the bench and see you have only vellios and diamantakos you must be depressed. im happy once donis and karelis return these dudes will be lost once and for all.

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26 minutes ago, bbaw said:

now THATS some funny a** sh**..........lol lol lol   ----------- all you guys make great points...

now with the benefit of a day to reflect here are my thoughts: 

big picture: we are an average to above average team that MUST play an "A" game collectively to compete against the bigger, better sides. (see Belgium 1-1 draw)  The more "talent" the bigger margin of error, so you can play a "B" game and still win...not us with this group of players. 

bigger Philosophical picture: traditionally, our soccer mentality and identity never includes an attacking style, rather we (against bigger teams) ALWAYS sit back and try to absorb pressure and really start getting going after about 20 minutes....(see Germany 4-2 loss a while back as an example)  This allows the other team to dictate the pace of the game and allows THEM to put THEIR stamp on the pitch

Why? CONFIDENCE, and a feeling of inferiority......Look how we came out against GIbralter vs. yesterday...why? we feared Croatia's offense and elected to sit back, giving them WAY more resepct than they deserved. 

smaller picture: our midfield absolutely SUCKS. no movement , no off the ball tactics, no attacking open spaces, no creativity ---its like nobody wanted the ball yesterday ----how many times did we kick it back to swiss cheese karnezis (who is awful by the way) 

coach: i know sokratis said dont blame the coach, but im sorry coach should put u in the best position to be successful. Not only did he not do that, but when it became obvious to EVERYONE that we needed to press higher up - especially after 4-1 he does very little to flip the script. Why was this SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOO bad? Aside form the obvious, the few chances we had (and they were not great chances) each time the Croat defense looked very very shaky. As a coach u need to see that, evaluate it and adjust in the moment....he did not do that. 

Now im sure many will say "ah, we gave them two gifts, etc. etc. etc. but thats even more reason for the coach to make adjustments....we simply dont have the luxury of making many mistakes in one game. and thats what happened yesterday.

Kpap and Maniatis were SSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO behind every play they go burned on it was laughable....

Its the worst big, important game i've seen in along long time....

manolas, donis, toro, mantalos and we are going back to AThens with a 80% chance to qualify. Without those guys well, u c what happened...I did not thinl one guy (manolas) could make such a big difference but his absence was HUGE. Two goals dont go in if he was there....

so you put all these things together and its a recipe for disaster. 

 

SO what now:

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK........WE are very capable of winning 3-0.....Can we? Well, just like we had a stinker of a game, so can the Croats. I said this BEFORE the game yesterday, fearing the strategy that they always employ, and unfortunately thats what happened.

We have to put fresh legs to chase the ball, pressure them and just press forward for 90 plus minutes. Their defense is shaky and with the right amount of pressure I know we can score a few goals WHILE KEEPING THEIR OFFENSE out of our zone.

 

 

 

 

I think if we kept it at 3-1 then maybe we could pull it off with some luck but to ask Greece to go out and get 3 goals in 90mn against Croatia is a pipe dream... If we get a 2-0 lead before half time then we can talk but for now its OVER. The only team we scored more then 2 goals against was Gibraltar the entire campaign. I'm not expecting a full stadium anymore on Sunday... This is going to be so depressing when the fifa draw for the world cup groups and even worse when the world cup starts this summer... 

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56 minutes ago, J1078 said:

I'm still absoloutly embarrassed and stunned.... we didn't even look this bad in our last euro qualifier.. I think this needs to be a reality check that ever since the last World Cup we have completely gone down hill and I have to agree with some of the previous posters that we may be missing tournaments for years to come.. very depressing...

we'll need to step up again and beat our pot 1 and pot 2 opposition in the qualifying group in order to qualify for a tournament, and slowly start reaching the point we were 3 years ago. this way we'll be back in pot 1 with easier draws coming up. nations league is a good chance to begin with since aside of serbia we're at the same level with the rest of the teams. it's a good chance to reach the final because this way we pretty much lock up our position in the euros since serbia could also qualify there via the original qualification. us, i doubt, so that's our time to bounce back. 

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1 minute ago, J1078 said:

I think if we kept it at 3-1 then maybe we could pull it off with some luck but to ask Greece to go out and get 3 goals in 90mn against Croatia is a pipe dream... If we get a 2-0 lead before half time then we can talk but for now its OVER. The only team we scored more then 2 goals against was Gibraltar the entire campaign. I'm not expecting a full stadium anymore on Sunday... This is going to be so depressing when the fifa draw for the world cup groups and even worse when the world cup starts this summer... 

if they go out there finally with some passion they'd score 2 goals in the first half. croatian defence looked atrocious yesterday and in an arguably shitty game from us, we had quite a few chances to score at least one more goal. im sure we'll find more opportunities at home but we'll have to exploit them.

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do you actually have hope that Skibbe will field a line up and setting a formation that will allow us to even have a shot at a couple goals?? Skibbe right now is playing for his job and he will play a style not to concede and he will also be happy with a 1-0 win or a draw just to keep face...He will not risk pushing guys forward and have the results end up like last game as he doesn't want to go out like that.. This game will be a "boring defensive game" we will play the majority of our players back and again play not to concede. In Skibbes mind its over he just wants to prove his defensive style works and save face.. The style we need to play to get 3 goals Skibbe wont allow it..

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7 minutes ago, J1078 said:

do you actually have hope that Skibbe will field a line up and setting a formation that will allow us to even have a shot at a couple goals?? Skibbe right now is playing for his job and he will play a style not to concede and he will also be happy with a 1-0 win or a draw just to keep face...He will not risk pushing guys forward and have the results end up like last game as he doesn't want to go out like that.. This game will be a "boring defensive game" we will play the majority of our players back and again play not to concede. In Skibbes mind its over he just wants to prove his defensive style works and save face.. The style we need to play to get 3 goals Skibbe wont allow it..

Yesterday only 2 of starting 11 were natural offensive players. We really can't see a more defensive lineup on Sunday than that garbage we saw in the first leg. Things like his last minute panic switch of Maniatis replacing Retsos are reminiscent of Rehhagel's last minute Vyntra over Kyrgiakos in WC10, which led to embarassment. We will never get anywhere is this loser mindset.  

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13 hours ago, Chris Tsamados said:

As bad as we played today (we gifted Croatia most of those goals), we did create chances.

 

If we can sure up our defense on Sunday, bring Monolas in and actually play a proper RB. I think we should win the return leg.

 

As crazy as it sounds I don't think this tie is as dead as people think. Croatia's defense is garbage and we need to just actually believe in ourselves and push forward. Impossible is Nothing!

Believe that and the disqualification will come twice as harder.

I just want to watch my team take a good result against hte Croats on sunday. Is it 1-0 is it 2-1 i am gonna say our boys on full roster (assuming Toro and Manolas will be back) fought for it and managed yet another miraculous result (like our B team vs Australia's A , like vs Netherlands, like vs Belgium and sort of like not losing by Bosnia twice).

Only if we end up being up 2-0 at some point of the game am I gonna believe qualification is possible. Until that happens (or most possibly doesn't) i am good with just some points for the ranking.

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Even that game against Belgium, the 1-2 loss, I came out of that satisfied. Because they played their hearts out. Belgium has world class guys too

I think if Skibbe plays his cards right we can get an early lead. If we get up early, get them stressed out and frustrated, it's possible guys. We put Zeca on Modric the whole game - Kourbelis on Rakitic the whole game - put Staf & Torosidis tight on their wingers the whole game. They wont be able to put anything together except long balls forward. 

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If you call what happened yesterday steps forward your crazy! This team needs a Greek coach... I know some people dont think so but I do as there would be a different dynamic out there not like 1994 coach who was a moron but someone like donis or lemonis would fare better in my opinion. Skibbe needs a total recall lol. Lets hope we score two Sunday and after that anything will happen....

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gentlemen, its not over.......Its UNLIKELY that we go through, but its not impossible. I try to be objective. There is no reason why croats cant throw up a "stinker" game....sitting here saying " there is no way we can win 3-0 , well you are not going out on a limb with that opinion. Thats the safe, pessimistic opinion. (and again, it might be what happens)

BUT...........one thing is clear...a few guys said it ealier.....if we dont go full out and attack, then the odds of a 3-0 win are almost ZERO.

If we go full out on attack, then we have as good a chance of scoring a goal or two. There back line looked awful, even with our MORE awful offensive display. 

If betting sports was so easy we would all be millionaires. Look what happen yesterday. All the "experts" predicted a low scoring game, defensive tight struggle and look what happened. 

Dont be surprised if we go up 3-0 and then eat a stupid goal to get eliminated because we then try to protect the lead and do what we did yesterday ......

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4 minutes ago, jason said:

If you call what happened yesterday steps forward your crazy! This team needs a Greek coach... I know some people dont think so but I do as there would be a different dynamic out there not like 1994 coach who was a moron but someone like donis or lemonis would fare better in my opinion. Skibbe needs a total recall lol. Lets hope we score two Sunday and after that anything will happen....

best option is ouzounidis. 

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I find it Hard for Tziolis being 34 when the euro campaign starts still remains elidgible for the NT. 

I expect Torosidis , Tziolis to retire officialy and maybe Maniatis and Tzavellas to unoficially do as well after Sunday.

But for the sake of god you mofos. 

Maniatis and Tziolis I agree.

But blaming Karnezis and Tzavellas who we actually praised a couple of months go when they made excellent performances against Belgium. That's what a Kanape Coach looks like. That's what you look like.

We need to promote our youth wingers because this is exactly what this NT was missing to make the step forward. It wouldn't make us world beater it would make us better.

 

And yes. This whole campaign in a total is a step forward. Look at the results and tell me so far out of 11 matches, in how many did we clearly underachieve? I ll tell u. Only 2. One was vs Estonia and the 2nd was yesterday. 

2 / 11 under achieving is a lot better than underachieving in 9 games out of 10 vs Finland Northern Ireland and Faroes.

The good thing : Future seems a bit promising.

The bad thing: Sokratis is getting older year by year. Noone has realised hes 29-30 today.

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Skank losing so badly in a playoff game when everything was on the line is NOT a step forward its actually a step back... I understand the Euro campaign was horrible and this campaign was much better but I refuse to believe out team was as bad as we looked in the euro qualifiers. We lost our captain and some veterans after the world cup, we lost our coach we introduced newer players a different system and there was no leadership.. Don't kid yourself this is not a step forward as we were not as bad as we seemed just to many changes in such a short time.. Before it was all said and done we have gone through 4 coaches in less then two years.... As long as our mid consists of Samaris who just doesn't it cut it for me  we will struggle.. as long as we don't use our younger faster winger we will struggle. lets see what happens Sunday and then we will see what decisions are made for the next campaign who ever our coach is. I will tell you even though I want skibbe gone if we do get a new coach it may be very difficult to even qualify for the euros as there will be another transition period of trying things out and a new system which may cost us some games to some weaker teams..

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1 minute ago, jvc said:

You're 100 percent wrong.  Team took steps forward....we had key players out yesterday,  and the goalkeeper had a rare bad game.   You guys keep blaming the coaching every year,  even a SANTOS hater.   THE TEAM OVERACHIED THIS CAMPAIGN.

Even a Santos hater??? are serious or are you just speaking out of your ass bro?? I loved santos and was so pissed that he left so don't shoot your mouth off if you don't know what the f... you're talking about..

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regarding coaches - the brilliance of otto was he 100% maxed out the "talent" we had by employing a system that put the players in the best position to succeed based on their strengths. STEP 2: HIS evaluation of the talent was accurate and his evlauation of what players would execute his vision was accurate.  STEP 3: the players all bought in to his approach. STEP 4: He made the necessary adjustments as needed, rather than wholesale changes.

Santos to a lesser degree, but he coached in Greece for a lon gtime so his assessment included up close knowledge of the greek game and gree mentality....

skibbe to me, although he give a good interview, seems far removed from both of these elements.

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2 minutes ago, jvc said:

Probably mistaken you for someone else in here....lots of Santos haters.

Let's all chill out.  It's not over yet.  If we get eliminated,  let's focus on the positives for once.   

 

fair enough... A lot of anger and disappointment from yesterday results... Lets get a positive result on Sunday and then go from there...

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Well i was worried about this one getting out of hand and it did.

Didnt watch the game but was able to watch Sunday and now theres no point.

Karnezis being a back up at Watford this year showed , what a tragic mistake to start the thrashing.    It appears Maniatis was useless in that position and was

exploited regularly.

Would be interesting to see Karnezis PK stats it gotta be 0 for 11 in his career.

There seems to be some optimistic guys here thinking its possible on Sunday lol

 

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1 hour ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

 

The bad thing: Sokratis is getting older year by year. Noone has realised hes 29-30 today.

Exactly this. He is the best player Greece has ever produce and, after failing to qualify to WC18, realistically has one potential tournament left in him, as he will be turning 32 on June 9 around the time Euro 2020 begins. 

At Euro 2020 this will be the age of our current core (note I have omitted certain players that should not be on the team for the qualifying campaign):

Karnezis (34), Kapino (26)

Sokratis (32), Manolas (29), K Papadopoulos (28), Torosidis (35), Retsos (21), Stafylidis (25)

Zeca (31), Samaris (31), tachtsidis (29)

Donis (23), Mitroglou (32)

 

 

 

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Skibbe is incompetent and worse than that inflexible (or possibly lazy).

Tziolis in the middle of the park ?  Are you serious ?!?!  Against a Croatia who you know will force you to run all day.  Tziolis who can't run or tackle is meant to do what exactly ?

And we have Basaketas, who is the rotation/backup for Lazaros at AEK, but here at the Ethniki it's the other way around ?!?!  Has Skibbe even watched any AEK games this year ?

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