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Cyprus vs. Greece ( 7 October 2017, GSP Stadium, Nicosia )

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Ela re Torontoblue,

I hear what you are saying.....But we don't have the talent that the big boys of Europe have the luxury of. Are you trying to imply that since Euro 2004 Greece have had comparable stud players littered through our lineup and we have just s%$#! the bed at a casual pace...then I don't follow you.

today is a new day, the Greek National team controls what they can. We have Gibraltar tomorrow. What would you be saying if we had Belgium away instead as our last game tomorrow. 

Don't trim your pinkie nail, polish up up your oversize Stavrouli, drink 2 shots of Metaxa 3 star tomorrow, if need be light up a Karelia classic and just enjoy tomorrow's match and don't be that guy that is going to be revisiting all of the past errors of the Ethniki or else you might get a pandolfla from a cousin.

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7 hours ago, Torontoblue said:

 

A Lot of you will probably say im anti-Greek and etc etc. But really I have lived thru the dark ages of Greek football. When we qualified for our first Tournament I was in heaven. But when we won 2004 I thought this is the making of something beautiful. Things were on the way up. The federation would build on this. But instead it has slowly gone backwards. We are sinking faster and faster and soon no way back again. We will only have the memory of 04 to think about. 

 

your opinion is not anti-greek at all

 

the federation is the biggest scam of all time. federations in general, are ANTI-soccer. look at what they impose on youth players.ALL about the $$$ and nothing to develop these players.

filled with political interests, quick wins which lead to short-sightedness

the heroes of 2004 opened their eyes, but it was only for a brief second. epo made huge profits in 2004....where are they now?

since 2004, we have had better players than the euro champs, but have not accomplished our potential

one of the differences is that as a unit, we did not perform. in 2004, it was ONE unit, not ONE player

today, everyone is looking at the guy next to them to be the hero, someone ELSE take charge..... that was not the case in 2004, all with less talented/skilled players.

and given it's a greek federation, it is even worse than you can imagine. point final.

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2 hours ago, trotsk13 said:

Scotland ties... That mean Greece is in, correct?

Yes Scotland maxed out at 18 points. Greece win we have 19 points.

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tantra129,

 

tell us something that most of us already don't know. It is what it is, what are you going to do about it? Accept it. Greece's soccer federation is a disaster and a pissing match between the handful of big clubs. Soccer is a gong show in Greece. Corruption is a rife as Greek politics. What are you really expecting? Transparency, fairness, honesty, and good faith. Hell, they even were wire tapping and video taping the Greek players a their facility. 

If we all really, really, really want to be extremely honest about Greek soccer. Please give me odds what it would be for Greece to win another Euro or a world cup. I think you are dipping into your papa's tsipouro.

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4 hours ago, Chris Tsamados said:

Watching the game now. Slovenia definitely the better team and pretty much having constant possession. Let's hope Scotland don't get a lucky winner.

Crazy. Officials waved off the 2nd Norwegian goal at the final whistle. Imagine if that had been the difference in Greece advancing 

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I completely disagree with everyone.

In the next 2 years if Greece qualifies for the WC they ll make a team much stronger.

Stafylidis is becomming a more solid Holebas.

Sokratis- Manolas are the best defenders we ve ever produced with back ups of a solid Papadopoulos and a prospect Retsos.

Mitroglou enters the age where strikers and CBs reach their peak. He has learned from his experience. He is a statik player and his pace was never anything to care about.

Donis a second striker who has everything we ve never seen on a player in the NT. The pace and the dribble to challenge man to man defenders and be able to shoot. Still too young but obviously above promising. He looks like a complete player with only his decision making needing upgrade.

Midfield Samaris I suppose will find a new team to be match fit more than he currently is, being in and out of Benfica's bench despite the team clearly not doing well. I suppose he ll start getting more game time since teams who go through bad periods need a change. Benfica defense seems to be the issue so I suppose Samaris will get some chances to prove himself.

Our other midfielders are all below average but Zeca has proven that he is solid defensively and probably brings up his game with the NT. Bilbao coach praised him after PAO matches. He has to know more. He called him elite. Offensively he is nothing. Defensively he is another wall in front of our CB wall.

This team brought their best game in 3 out of 4 matches with the big boys of the Group. This team if they qualify they will prove us all wrong. Either they go further than Groupstage or not is not the point. If we look every opponent we face as well as we did vs Bosnia and Belgium (mind you half the teams that make it will be equal and maybe worse than Bosnia), we ll look like we deserved that spot out of the 32.

 

As for the whole Dark era. You all f*ckers now understand why Santos was using Karagounis/Katsouranis till they reached elderly age. We had a 6 and 8 who controlled whole games.

That's literally what's missing right now. A 8 like Kara who can be a transition god. To dethrone Samaris from his starting spot and create a link from offence to defense.

3-5-2 is on paper our strongest formation. Im only talking about names. Individuals. If it works for this NT or not is totally not the question but 3-5-2 is on paper a formation we could have an extra back pass and a bit more focus over Mitroglou and how to service him.

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33 minutes ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

I completely disagree with everyone.

 

...

3-5-2 is on paper our strongest formation. Im only talking about names. Individuals. If it works for this NT or not is totally not the question but 3-5-2 is on paper a formation we could have an extra back pass and a bit more focus over Mitroglou and how to service him.

well that was one of the many issues along the way from 2004 to today

the initial question was why have we not progressed. not why have we not one another trophy.

playing karakats into their 90's was one of the reasons

why did we not make progress, even though as individual skills, players in general are better than they were in '04

why didn't epo invest in greek soccer so today we can have 10 karas, kats, basinas, iero's and zagos to choose from?

instead they were looking to fill their bellies

santos was one of the main issues as well. he made many mistakes, his short sighted vision is a major hand at play for our '14-16' dip.

 

i believe our future is bright. we have a very good back line. more options in CM than a couple of years ago and some flair in #8's and 10"s

i like staf . too, but what is tzavelas and tziolis doing in that lineup?

 

donis is a certain bright star, but we need more depth behind mitroglou

 

also, ive seen some good from skibbe and a lot of bad

 

it should not be sokratis telling him to make changes because we are going to lose. wake up. and for s%$#!'s sake call holebas back. be a man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Holebas stated that he is retiring from NT and noone can say anything to him. He decided, made it public. Skibbe can do nothing else if Holebas aint interested in throwing his ego away and play for a coach that wanted him as a LB. Happened with Georgatos too under Otto and yet noone blamed otto about it then because we won the Euros I suppose.

I honestly am of the opinion that apart from Lazaros Christodoulopoulos and possibly Dimitrios Pelkas instead of Bakasetas and Diamantakos every other single call up was justified. Noone disagrees that our Goallie, Defenders , Striker , Fortounis should be in the line up. What peopla dont like are some of hte wingers Skibbe uses (Mantalos-Bakasetas to be fair) and the midfield.

When it comes to wingers. Skibbe uses defensively minded players in there. Stafylidis and Mantalos usually. a LB who is very good offensively and a attacking mid who proved why he plays when he pressured high and assisted mitroglou (and hit the woodwork).

Yesterday the only one who cant be blamed for the low scoring is Skibbe. Mitroglou lost a few chances. Mantalos hit the wood and his assist to Fortounis was a bit behind than it should and thus cleared. We had 5-6 clear chances to score in myhumble opinion and people are still disappointed. We won them way harder at Athens despite the score. This team apart from the Estonia match , after the 6th is playing very solidly. We are in the play offs coz we deserve it).

When it comes to the central midfielders I ll say something that noone wants to hear. We have noone.

Samaris is not offensively orientated, yet a class above everyone else in that part so he looks like the best box to box we have. Truth is He is not even a box to box. He is just too good and of an experienced age to know what he has to do and do it.

Zeca is defensively decent at worst. Tziolis. Eveyrone hates Tziolis. I see the reason. Tziolis really deserves to be called but not to be a starter. Let's ask ourselves why.

Our Greece sux so much that Skibbe needs a tall line up for the set pieces. There it is. Yesterday we had 2 corners where we had a clear header. One went in. Do I praise Tziolis for scoring? No. Did he get the job done in front of 2 Cypriots? Yes.

So overall. Skibbe is playing our best defenders, our best goalies , our best centerforward and our best attacking mid. Donis when not injured usually starts and the only problems I see are a)when Zeca/Samaris are injured so usually Tziolis will play b)Mantalos being on the wings. Scrap Mantalos for Lazaros and you got a far more decent attacking mid trio. But what happens with his defensive duties? Skibbe made a solid defence that conceded as many goals as Belgium. 

Yet we are still complaining.

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31 minutes ago, tantra129 said:

well that was one of the many issues along the way from 2004 to today

the initial question was why have we not progressed. not why have we not one another trophy.

playing karakats into their 90's was one of the reasons

why did we not make progress, even though as individual skills, players in general are better than they were in '04

why didn't epo invest in greek soccer so today we can have 10 karas, kats, basinas, iero's and zagos to choose from?

instead they were looking to fill their bellies

santos was one of the main issues as well. he made many mistakes, his short sighted vision is a major hand at play for our '14-16' dip.

 

i believe our future is bright. we have a very good back line. more options in CM than a couple of years ago and some flair in #8's and 10"s

i like staf . too, but what is tzavelas and tziolis doing in that lineup?

 

donis is a certain bright star, but we need more depth behind mitroglou

 

also, ive seen some good from skibbe and a lot of bad

 

it should not be sokratis telling him to make changes because we are going to lose. wake up. and for s%$#!'s sake call holebas back. be a man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't like Holebas,  he's a ass hole!!!  Plus a overrated bitch.  

Edited by jvc
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Rockafellar Skank,

you tell it like it is. unless Zues is hiding some amazing prospects under his beard.....the reality is that this is what we got.

I go back to my fifa PS4 example. All the complaining, questioning, insulting, negative chatter about coach Skibbe and his selections comes to this model example. 

A 1000 greek fans, have varying tweaks or insights on the Greek squad. formation, personnel, strategy etc. But if you give the power to each of these negative nancy's and they add there fetfatzidis, nines, and other players not chosen etc.....You then have them look at the current lineups used in each match vs each opponent, taking into account injuries, suspensions, etc.

So then give these negative nancy's the PS4 fifa 18, and let them choose their Greek dream team. They swap this guy for that guy, this player for another player, and you see the surge in change when the 71 EA rated player is swapped for the 73 rated player. But then the 74 rated player is switched with the 73 rated player (because the negative nancy is olympiakos, or panthinaikos, or AEK, or PAOK, or Egaleo) My point with this model, is WE DON'T HAVE THE 85, 90, 88, 92, 93, 86 RATED PLAYERS.

So when a coach comes in and looks at things pragmatically, and systematically as Skibbe has you have to understand the complexity and the challenges he faces in creating a squad. 

As well of most importance, the first thing that Papastathopoulos said yesterday that the National team has become a family again.

The Ranieri experiment was a failed experiment. The coach was to blame, the players were to blame. But again, that is in the past. 

Moving forward, I have said it before and I viewed others in the forum mentioned it as well...but Greece has always performed in the clutch. Although we are not 86, 88, 90, 94 rated individuals.....What I believe Greece learned from Otto in 2004 that a series of 69-70-71 working together, playing for each other, and becoming a team...success can be had.

Rockafellar Skank, concur with what you have been saying......I just would like to add that MANY other teams would love to be in the spot Greece have worked very hard for...albiet in some very interesting, bizarre circumstances. I can't wait for Gibraltar.

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Let's just sit back and enjoy the fact the we now control our own destiny again and that we've put our selfs in a position with a win over Gibraltar to be amongs the best 2nd place teams and at the very least we get to see the Ethniki in two crucial matches.. just for now let's forget the what if , the who the why and let's just enjoy the fact that we will have some really meaningful football coming up in November..  If Greece play like the did against belgium in both games they will NOT be an easy opponent to play against..

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2 hours ago, MItsaras9 said:

Rockafellar Skank,

you tell it like it is. unless Zues is hiding some amazing prospects under his beard.....the reality is that this is what we got.

I go back to my fifa PS4 example. All the complaining, questioning, insulting, negative chatter about coach Skibbe and his selections comes to this model example. 

A 1000 greek fans, have varying tweaks or insights on the Greek squad. formation, personnel, strategy etc. But if you give the power to each of these negative nancy's and they add there fetfatzidis, nines, and other players not chosen etc.....You then have them look at the current lineups used in each match vs each opponent, taking into account injuries, suspensions, etc.

So then give these negative nancy's the PS4 fifa 18, and let them choose their Greek dream team. They swap this guy for that guy, this player for another player, and you see the surge in change when the 71 EA rated player is swapped for the 73 rated player. But then the 74 rated player is switched with the 73 rated player (because the negative nancy is olympiakos, or panthinaikos, or AEK, or PAOK, or Egaleo) My point with this model, is WE DON'T HAVE THE 85, 90, 88, 92, 93, 86 RATED PLAYERS.

So when a coach comes in and looks at things pragmatically, and systematically as Skibbe has you have to understand the complexity and the challenges he faces in creating a squad. 

As well of most importance, the first thing that Papastathopoulos said yesterday that the National team has become a family again.

The Ranieri experiment was a failed experiment. The coach was to blame, the players were to blame. But again, that is in the past. 

Moving forward, I have said it before and I viewed others in the forum mentioned it as well...but Greece has always performed in the clutch. Although we are not 86, 88, 90, 94 rated individuals.....What I believe Greece learned from Otto in 2004 that a series of 69-70-71 working together, playing for each other, and becoming a team...success can be had.

Rockafellar Skank, concur with what you have been saying......I just would like to add that MANY other teams would love to be in the spot Greece have worked very hard for...albiet in some very interesting, bizarre circumstances. I can't wait for Gibraltar.

I agree with what you are saying. We don't have 84, 86, 87, 88 or even 90 rated players. But leaving players out like Pelkas, Bakakis, Galanopoulos and Fetfatzidis is not right. We all know Tziolis provides height in the team. But guess what, Tachtsidis provides height aswell. Tachtsidis is more of a difference maker. We all know that. Siopis should play against Gibraltar. As well as Gianniotas. 

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I'll leave the bright lights of FIFA '86 and the PS7 to you professionals. 

 

Back on the pitch, reality reigns and the likes of Velios were trying to punch above their weight class. 

 

I repeat, under skibbe, we did perform well on many occasions. And when we needed to pull through, we did not show up.  Remember a month ago?

also, I mentioned yesterday we should have buried three more goals, easily. It's ok , the fact that we created is more important. 

 

Skibbe made errors. There is no reason for tziolis to start, even if he was a giant of 9 feet tall. Samaris sucks.  How many goals were his fault?

 

 

tzavellas should be on the bench too. 

 

I like 3-5-2 

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5 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

A 8 like Kara who can be a transition god. To dethrone Samaris from his starting spot and create a link from offence to defense.

I agree; adding a young Karagounis to this team would make for a very good team. He is the one player missing.

The rest of the payers are good. We have 2 offensive players (Mitro & Donis) that we never had recently; not even in 2004 (compare Mitroglou & Donis to Vrisas & Xaristes; to me it is not even close). Of course their is  no backup for Mitro but this is a different story.

We have 2 of the best CB we ever had; Karnezis has experience and finally plays well for NT (even the backup, Kapino has huge potential and played great at Belgium).  Stafilidis is, imo, better than Fissas and Tsavellas is as good, with better fouls and cross.

Torosidies out RB, while not  at good at a young Seitaridis, has quality and hits great headers.

Taxstidis has similar style to Basina and Zeka plays a similar role to Zagorakis but he is more flexible (can play 6-8, RM & RB).

Even Lazaros, that played well in the last WR, is more mature and effective now.

This shows the quality of Karagounis; apart from his ability to hold and move the ball, he would bust his balls and give everything for the team. Compare this to the blaze way Fortounis plays; I don't want to bash fortounis; any comparison to Karagounis is unfair. Actually Fortounis is the only one that can come close to match Karagounis play.

 

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5 hours ago, trotsk13 said:

Crazy. Officials waved off the 2nd Norwegian goal at the final whistle. Imagine if that had been the difference in Greece advancing 

Was thinking the same thing when I watched that game, we all would have been irrate.

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R

5 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

Holebas stated that he is retiring from NT and noone can say anything to him. He decided, made it public. Skibbe can do nothing else if Holebas aint interested in throwing his ego away and play for a coach that wanted him as a LB. Happened with Georgatos too under Otto and yet noone blamed otto about it then because we won the Euros I suppose.

I honestly am of the opinion that apart from Lazaros Christodoulopoulos and possibly Dimitrios Pelkas instead of Bakasetas and Diamantakos every other single call up was justified. Noone disagrees that our Goallie, Defenders , Striker , Fortounis should be in the line up. What peopla dont like are some of hte wingers Skibbe uses (Mantalos-Bakasetas to be fair) and the midfield.

When it comes to wingers. Skibbe uses defensively minded players in there. Stafylidis and Mantalos usually. a LB who is very good offensively and a attacking mid who proved why he plays when he pressured high and assisted mitroglou (and hit the woodwork).

Yesterday the only one who cant be blamed for the low scoring is Skibbe. Mitroglou lost a few chances. Mantalos hit the wood and his assist to Fortounis was a bit behind than it should and thus cleared. We had 5-6 clear chances to score in myhumble opinion and people are still disappointed. We won them way harder at Athens despite the score. This team apart from the Estonia match , after the 6th is playing very solidly. We are in the play offs coz we deserve it).

When it comes to the central midfielders I ll say something that noone wants to hear. We have noone.

Samaris is not offensively orientated, yet a class above everyone else in that part so he looks like the best box to box we have. Truth is He is not even a box to box. He is just too good and of an experienced age to know what he has to do and do it.

Zeca is defensively decent at worst. Tziolis. Eveyrone hates Tziolis. I see the reason. Tziolis really deserves to be called but not to be a starter. Let's ask ourselves why.

Our Greece sux so much that Skibbe needs a tall line up for the set pieces. There it is. Yesterday we had 2 corners where we had a clear header. One went in. Do I praise Tziolis for scoring? No. Did he get the job done in front of 2 Cypriots? Yes.

So overall. Skibbe is playing our best defenders, our best goalies , our best centerforward and our best attacking mid. Donis when not injured usually starts and the only problems I see are a)when Zeca/Samaris are injured so usually Tziolis will play b)Mantalos being on the wings. Scrap Mantalos for Lazaros and you got a far more decent attacking mid trio. But what happens with his defensive duties? Skibbe made a solid defence that conceded as many goals as Belgium. 

Yet we are still complaining.

Rockafella Hugh Hefner Skank, your passion is up there with the greats like Karagounis, Sampson, Leonidas, La Mendel etc.  I Must disagree this time bruh, Zeca has an attacking game, Tachtsidis is an asset, Samaris I never had him in the highest category. I think he should of played as an 8, not a 6. Tziolaraaa is not too bad, off the bench. We have a good squad.

Kourbelis and Siopis are screaming for an opportunity. We don't know how good they are cause they don't get a shot-like Bouchalakis and hoping to see Villafanez.

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