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Greece vs Estonia (31 August 2017- World Cup Qualifier- Karaiskakis Stadium, Piraeus)

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Ellada2004    21
1 hour ago, MItsaras9 said:

HLet's remember who played, who did not. Who has experience, who does not. Who had experience but normally does not play as much.  A lot of things one cannot control ended up the Ethniki with a water down and inexperienced lineup. 

BUT all teams miss key players vs Injuries or otherwise and such is life. I saw highlights, but not the whole game. I was pleasantly surprised that Cyprus upset Bosnia down 2-0 to guns a blazing to win 3-2. Some exceptional goals I must say. So thank God for Cyprus today.

That said players that were miss hopefully most are back for Sunday. The big question mark is Mitroglou. I have said a few times, when the Greek team has performed well it has been a TEAM effort. We DO NOT have a the spoils 4-5-6-7 superstars. 

Our trademark is defence and timely scoring, but it usually is 1-2 goals not victories of 3,4,5 goals or so. Since Euro 2004 We are usually sporting a lone striker, and it drops off from there calibre wise.

As for the negativity in this forum about the next match(es), qualifying for the world cup in Russia. I beg the question, which of our campaigns where we did qualify were we just breezing along? Remind me, because I recall there were some campaigns  stronger than others.....but for the most part. I recall close matches, sometimes a stumble, and most often we qualified at the very end. Greek drama.

In regards to Sunday, with strong experienced players back, with it on the line...I expect a battle. If we do not match Belgiums battle level then we are in trouble. But if the leaders of this squad, with a hostile crowd, bring their best then in a card filled match Greece has to lay it on the line.

 

 

True it's always a grind to qualify when we reached Euro 2008 we topped Turkey by 7 points. As for today missing Mitroglou was a huge void as Vellios struggled, also missing our leader Sokratis affected us. Torosidis crosses could have helped as there were a lot of mishit crosses into the box. We are lucky that Cyprus came back and won, when it was 0-2 it was looking like we were going to be back a point. Hopefully the team is at full strength vs Belgium, they will be missing a few key players and Hazard is not 100%. 

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maggica    35

Greece are winless in 5 games (4 draws 1 loss), scoring 2 goals and conceding 3.

 

Problem: Clearly, scoring goals is the problem.  Bakasetas, Vellios and Diamantakos have a combined 19 appearances, 0 goals for the NT.  Also, our CMs/CDMs are all terrible at scoring goals...every single one of them.  

Solution: We need to insert goalscorers into the squad.  

Observations/Opinion: Lazaros should be a regular in the team.  Pelkas, Mystakidis, Masouras, Manias, Giakoumakis (AEK) and Nazlidis are all players that get playing time, score goals, get assists and are generally involved in the build-up leading to goals..they all had better seasons in 2016-17 than Bakasetas, Vellios and Diamantakos...some of them should have been called up over the past year.   

Edited by maggica

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HellasLEAF    27
7 hours ago, Greekoz said:

Belgium will wrap up top spot mathematically on sunday and then head to bosnia with its reserves. We butchered our chance to knock bosnia out of the running. As it stands i see bosnia finishing 1 point ahead of us. Lets hope we only lose by a few.

Pains me to say it, but it's hard to believe it won't play out this way.  

We now need a result against Belgium.  The team is just too thin in certain positions and Skibbe did not compensate well enough with his choices or tactics this time.

I give him credit for getting us this far and making the team credible again, but today I put some of the blame on him.  Even with a so-so performance, they should have been good enough for a 1 - 0 at home.  Very disappointing.  The Cypres match is also very worrisome now.  I just don't see any reason why they can't beat us,  the second spot is completely up for grabs and our 2nd spot looks temporary.  

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MItsaras9    3

When the circumstances are properly look at, all the information is correct verified and understood, "we" the arm chair manager/coaches all sound fantastic.

Unless, someone is hiding some "uber" Greek players underneath their Yiayia's bed....like  talented creative playmakers, as well as a couple of goal scorers ( to assist Mitroglou) then we have to accept that we do not have the depth of some other NT in Europe. Some of these top level NT teams can actually sit out 2-3,4 of their best and put new faces in the lineup and cruise to a win. Heads up to some in the forum, last I checked that is not the Ethniki as it stands. We have 7 very good players that have what else we have available to field.

You can say but this guy, or that guy and it can be debated. But at some point it must be accepted that anyway you shuffle the deck our options are limited, and we are exposed when injuries/suspensions to our backbone 7 occurs.

Also when you have Skibbe putting new bodies in, or even when we debate as to which other new bodies could be inserted...remember most of the candidates are new/have not played together, etc.

So after the Ranieri campaign which both coach and players s%$#! the bed. This campaign all said, has not been so bad as the really super negative few are pouting about. As the last world cup a nice looking Ethniki team, with more depth, more experience, and a solid chemistry.........went into a nose dive that was simply a nightmare. 

I am impressed with Lazaros in the little i have seen this season. But I just want to say in my own opinion which others may disagree. Lazaros selfish play in our last world cup game in Brazil, ultimately led to our loss in that match. For those who don't remember the break out, he had 3 options of passes and he went for the glory.

Our team, until that time comes when simultaneously Greek mothers are bearing without our knowledge 23 babies that are going to be the best Greek soccer players ever............The Greek team needs to build of the principles, discipline, team work, heart, and effort that led the Ethniki to its finest hour.

My final thought to all of you, if you have relatives or friends in Cyprus during all of the Greek festivals in North America, and the world....if you see them face to face give them a huge hug and thank them, or call/text/write a letter in the mail and thank them too.

 

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Dean97    159

I don't want to even talk about what happened in today's match. All I know is Donis is a big player for us. He can do what Mantalos and Fortounis cant and thats take on players. Fortounis looks like he doesn't want to be there at times and Mantalos played horrible. I expected more from him and I'm still waiting. Fortounis lifted in the second half. I can't describe how frustrated I am and dissapointed I am. Tziolis is useless. We needed Tachtsidis badly. Zeca was not effective in attack but was effective in defence. Overall the team was clueless in attack.

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2 hours ago, MItsaras9 said:

 

My final thought to all of you, if you have relatives or friends in Cyprus during all of the Greek festivals in North America, and the world....if you see them face to face give them a huge hug and thank them, or call/text/write a letter in the mail and thank them too.

 

LoL. If Cyprus wins Estonia on Sunday, no matter what happens to our match against Belgium , we will be 0-3 points in front of them. In the meantime Bosnia will be playing with unirrelevant yet strong Belgium, meaning that if Belgium wins again and we re playing Cyprus, Cyprus might end up second. Cyprus will give a fight even if it is for 3rd spot i believe. Why should they gift themselves on us anyways? If we can't beat Cyprus away what will we do in the play offs?

Our only savior is that Cyprus has yet to play Belgium away and they have already played Gibraltar twice, which we haven't.

Edited by Rockafeller Skank

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paokarag4    166

for those saying fortounis was poor, I lost count of how many times he picked up the ball, turned and waited for an option and there was no movement. He then has to go back sideways or backwards and frustration grows. 
Don't get me wrong he wasn't great but there were another 7-8 players who were also very poor. 

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J1078    302

Bosnia is a guaranteed 3 points on Sunday which means we will be out of 2nd place after this weekend.. We royally screwed our chances..

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RED SHERIFF    661

once we drew home and away to Bosnia.....the plan was that we were always going to be behind Bosnia with 2 matches to go..

 

The positive after their loss in Cyprus is that THEY MUST BEAT Belgium...a draw won't be enough...If we beat Cyprus and Gibraltar...

Edited by RED SHERIFF

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js1000    116

Why is Mandalos a starter?? he's never had a decent game and is simply not good enough. Bakasetas Zeca Diamantakos shouldn't be there either, midfield v Belgium I would hope for Stafylidis Samaris Tachtsidis Fortounis, even then I doubt we'd have a chance. 

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RED SHERIFF    661

Mandalos is one of our few good attacking creative options..

Zeca is needed.  Tziolis NOT!!

Bakasetas, Diamantakos, Vellios are all rubbish...

Taxi and Samaris if fit SHOULD BE IN THE 11...I have concerns about both their fitness/match fitness?

we proved last night that apart from Mitro we have no other strikers....Klaus is sadly the second best Greek striker at the moment....that is saying something...

we can now reflect and say that...the following line up may have been more effective...but who knows?

 

.........Bakakis..........K.Pap......Manolas...Staf...

 

..................................Zeca...............................

 

Giannotas.........Mandalos.......Samaris..........Lazaros

 

.....................................Fortounis..........................

 

...................................Donis...................................

 

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Argy    157
1 hour ago, js1000 said:

Why is Mandalos a starter?? he's never had a decent game and is simply not good enough. Bakasetas Zeca Diamantakos shouldn't be there either, midfield v Belgium I would hope for Stafylidis Samaris Tachtsidis Fortounis, even then I doubt we'd have a chance. 

I agree he is impotent, predictable and keeps making mind-numbing mistakes. 

Edited by Argy

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You re all just very pessimisting over the first bad result this team gets.

We played well, but the scheme was very defensively orientated.

Schibbe, as much as I like to defend him, failed in this match. Too much defense against how many players of Estonia crossing the midfield? One? Two?.

His subs also made no sense. could have easily made this a 3-5-2 when he subbed Kyriakos off for Stafylidis. or a 3-4-3.

But im not gonna take the head of a coach that's using a successfull formula of the previous ocaches rehaggel and Santos.

And that is first making sure we don't concede, then we see offense.

This was what ranieri tried to change, and this was why our NT from almost in the top 8 of 2014, didnt qualify for the Euros.

Skibbe knows what he is doing. I totally agree with Tziolis call up. He is the most experienced player in the squad who has been with the NT  for 10 years , but i totally disagree with him being a starter against any opposition other than Gibraltar. To be fair Zeca and Tziolis are different styles of players in the same position. midfielder who focuses on defending and winning balls in he midfield. Them being in the same line up against a 11-0-0 (yeah i never thought Id actually say that for football ant not for girl issues) lower quality team didn't make any sense.

But Im not gonna take his head after one match.

Ethniki has taken results against many opponents who are on par or better with us under Skibbe. Australia, Netherlands, Belgium , Bosnia twice.

The first time a team tried to play defence against us by giving us the ball and defending against us we struggled. Whenever we had an opponent who was playing with a possibility of winning (Cyprus,Estonia away,Bosnia,Belgium) we had some crucial chances that ended up in results.

Im pretty sure that if this forum existed before 2014 this was a problem then as well. NT struggling against smaller opponents who give our team the ball and defend. We re simply a defend till I die team and hit on the counter. Last night I couldn't count more than one, maybe two counterattacks for us. It was the exactly same NT as the one who was scrapping 1-0 wins, only this time, with absences and bad luck, the goal didn't happen. Im not gonna start the typical couch coaching from the first game. 

Should the belgians do what you are asking after their draw with us in Belgium? Scrap all their players and start over because "the players we had couldnt deliver" after just one bad match? 

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georgelaz    381

guys fortounis has 4 goals this season in 5 games. he's the least to blame from anyone. Though yes Donis did look sharper.

You have to keep in mind that Fortounis is a CAM who provides service though and Donis is a Winger/Cf which is quasi service / goal scoring.

This reminds me when people were ripping on Mitroglou 'not trying' for the NT. Of course he wants to play well for the NT, he was getting terrible service!

we lost because we're a top heavy side with not a lot of depth in positions except for cb. Also the wrong selection of Tziolis when Tachtsidis gave the assist to Mitroglou against one of the worlds best, Belgium.

once we have Torosidis, Karelis, and Mitroglou back. Drop Tziolis and have Tachtsidis in, we're a different team. That's like 40% of the team right there, that's huge.

Edited by georgelaz

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Ellada2004    21

I see Mitroglou is doubtful for Sunday if this is true we are in a heap of trouble. Looking back we dropped 4 points giving up that late goal in Belgium (but we were down to 10 men unfairly) and Mandalos missed a sitter vs Bosnia. If those 2 games ended in wins we have 17 points and are a lock for 2nd spot and still in great position for first. 

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Brklyngrk    70

You can also say that we should have lost against Bosnia the first time.  I believe Mitroglou was ruled out and the reason Kyriakos was taken out was because he picked up an injury, doubtful for Sunday.

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1 hour ago, Brklyngrk said:

You can also say that we should have lost against Bosnia the first time.  I believe Mitroglou was ruled out and the reason Kyriakos was taken out was because he picked up an injury, doubtful for Sunday.

 

I dont think so. Havent read anything but I dont know either.

It seemed to me like Kyriakos was taken out so that Tzavellas-Retsos go CB and the team plays 3-6-1

Edited by Rockafeller Skank

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Ellada2004    21
1 hour ago, Brklyngrk said:

You can also say that we should have lost against Bosnia the first time.  I believe Mitroglou was ruled out and the reason Kyriakos was taken out was because he picked up an injury, doubtful for Sunday.

Ya that's true we got that late beautiful volley goal from Tzavellas. 

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Ellada2004    21
15 minutes ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

 

I dont think so. Havent read anything but I dont know either.

It seemed to me like Kyriakos was taken out so that Tzavellas-Retsos go CB and the team plays 3-6-1

Read on Agona sports that K Paps sustained an injury and was subsequently subbed off. At least we have Sokratis back, Mitroglou is the key piece.

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OFI-mtl    13

Paidia Skibbe set up his team to tie 0-0 we should applaud him for his tactics..but the m#$%! didnt know that this was a must WIN.

1)This game didnt need 2 defensive mids when we knew we would dominate posession IMO Zeca and Tziolis are useless the modern 6 must tackle and be able to spray and ping passes all over the pitch Tachtsidis Samaris much better. Bouchalakis was in form he was a must start this was nt portugal to say the lad would be nervous makes zero sense to me.

2) the 2 outside backs in todays soccer play touchline to touchline Retsos Tzavellas were a shambles did they overlap Mandalos or Donis once to open any spaces for them we had the F***en cover with the 2 colonais Tziolis and Zeca WHERE was Lykogiannis another in form player.

3) Where is our depth an entire country and we have no STRIKER option after Mitro dont say Karelis we dont know what he will be like after injury WTF is going on can no GREEK kid can F***en ball and put it in the net. Donis should have been played up top with Giannotas or Stafy or Lyko on the FLANK.

4) this mentality of being the minnow has never left us ZERO F***en ambition to go forward apart from Donis or Fortounis..Mandalos gets a pass Retsos and Vellios cant help his cause but he is not in the right position. we sit back vs ESTONIA and wait for the 90+ min goal..SACK the F***er SKIBBE a team always take the image of their coach..a group of gutless cowards.

5) Why do we have to play in Karaiskai game in game out. My Bro spoke with Katsouranis in Patras this summer he told him the players dont want to play there THEY LOVE playing in Crete..F*** Larissa has a nice stadium..bring Estonia to Thessaloniki 

I am so dejected been watching the Ethniki since 89 and I think the last time I was this pissed was after Alexandris missed his chances vs Denmark.

WE NEED CHANGE I hope Belgium feed these Fn cowards their lunch Injury excuses are for losers we blew qualifications yesterday!!

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J1078    302

I also strongly believe we blew our chance at second yesterday as well. All we needed was to beat Estonia at home and Instead we played afraid to give up a goal. I don't think we had a shot on goal the entire second half... That's embarrassing. After Sunday we will be in third place and depending how many goals we eat we might be in fourth if Cyprus beat Estonia handily and we get blown out. Did Skibbe not know this was a MUST WIN  GAME??  Why take the chance with regular bench guys on the biggest game of your campaign?? Very disappointed with that result and Skibbe selections..

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Dean97    159

I agree about Mantalos. He is too obvious and looks like he can't do anything. Our best attackers were Donis and Fortounis. We needed Tachtsidis in this match. I saw him getting ready to come on and I was thinking yes we will score or we will win somehow. Then Bakasetas comes on and I'm hoping he would do something. I'm sick of hoping with this team. It's time to play the inform GOOD players or else I'll stop watching. This is frustrating, imagine hoping for the national team to do well and score goals, but to than see them in a full 90 minute game and not score against Estonia. I believe we have good players. Or maybe is it that I want to believe we have good players. Fetfatzidis to me is a very good special player. Fortounis is another one. Donis has proven to be a starter. Tachtsidis is a class midfielder at times. Papadopoulos could easily do Tziolis job. But I am starting to think am I living in a false sense of reality thinking that these players are actually good or am I over doing it by thinking they are better than what they actually are. To me yesterday Mantalos was piss poor. I could see Fortounis getting frustrated with him and Vellios. I'm on the verge of saying I've had enough of this team. We either get inform TALENTED players or we play with guts and run our assess off and drop until we can't go anymore. If we get one of the two I'm happy if we don't get any at all I'm finished with the team.

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Dean97    159

I also want to add that I've been following the national team passionately since the world cup of 2010. All these years I've been hoping and defending this team. I've been hoping for stars to emerge and to play good football. Most importantly I've been hoping to win. I've been defending the team from critics, saying this team plays boring, the team is too old, Greece is not that good. I've been saying that Greece play with heart and passion and do whatever it takes to win. Which was happening. I am a passionate follower because I am proud Greek and passionate football fan. I am on the verge of not caring about this football team because I've waited too long and put my energy in this team, where they cannot beat the Faroes, Belarus and score a goal against Estonia. I can say I've experienced the team in the good and the bad. But now I'm starting to question why put so much effort In a team that doesn't have the same high amount of passion as I do. If I was playing for Greece it would be a huge, HUGE honour for me as I would relish each chance to wear the Greek shirt and play like my life is on the line and stop at nothing for a victory. The Greek people have been through a lot all these generations in the past and still are battling issues, but through all this we as Greeks have come out on top like true Spartans by battling everyone who wants to takes us down, but with a Greek heart we always rise on top and we never give up. So with all that being said what will these current players do in order to win against Belgium. What will these players sacrifice to make us Greeks proud again. All I'm saying is what I want this team to do. If they can't then we don't deserve to be at the World Cup. I applaud Skibbe for helping us get back up from the mess that happened in 2015/2016 but if he can't realise that Tziolis, Diamantakos, Vellios and Bakasetas are not doing there job then he should get the sack. All I want this team to do is play like the country existence is on the line and stop at nothing to win.

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Greekaroos    149

Lack of world class strikers. Without Kostas Mitroglou Greece have nothing up front. Seriously 0-0 at home to a team like Estonia whom Belgium thumped 8-1 & Bosnia & Herzegovina 5-0. Theofanis Gekas used to fill the position when Mitroglou was injured & although missed many chances always had a great goal ratio at club or international level because he was hungry for goals & would get into goal scoring positions. Now we have s****! 

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Chris Tsamados    105

Watching Greece fail has been a  regular occurrence for me (barring 2004), you just have to learn to live with it. We aren't a power house of European football and don't have the cash to support grass routes football like other countries. Not to mention not many of our players play for big European teams.

Its unfortunate that we do lack the killer edge in front of goal as I have watched countless games where we have clearly been the better side and any other team given the same amount of chances would have comfortably won. I honestly thought when Mitroglou came along we had found the player we so clearly lack but after his mini break down during WC 2014 he's never been the same player, except barring glimpses.

We also seem to be extremely unlucky with the amount of injuries our players pick up!

Maybe Andreas Bouchalakis from Notts Forrest can play apart in future games, he seems to be able to score and create chances. 

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