SL - R13: Panathinaikos - PAOK ( 04 Dec 16, 19:30 EET )

[Bananas]

What I see is a new unproven manager, new RB, 2 x new CB, new DM, new CM, new RM.  That's 6 new starters.  I see inconsistency, unsurprisingly.  On our day we are a decent to good team.  It's not like we got played off the park by PAO.  Ivic was conservative.  I think that's his nature.  Some of the new signings are decent to good.  Some not so good.

[kozi]

Savvidi to blame for everything...the rest is irrelevant

[teke817]

@Bananas I agree with you, Atromitos was one of those freak things that happens in football - just look at Bournemouth punking Liverpool. Which is exactly why Ivic reaction is unforgivable. I also agree that PAO got lucky on a shot the GK saves 99/100 times.

However, defensive mindset or not, good teams don't go 90' without a shot on target. Most distressingly, there was little fight. Guys were not putting in the miles on the pitch. Both teams exhibited this, but I don't care about PAO. Our guys were not pressing, not moving off the ball, tackling was sloppy, they got frustrated easily, etc. 

In terms of personnel, yeah, we have been missing a "10" and an "8" for 2+ seasons. I'm not sure we are willing to spend to get one. The closest we got was Nacho and Noboa for a quality "8" and we couldn't pay them enough to stay. 

I like Ivic. I thought (think?) he could be the long term solution at manager. I have burning through coaches. I hope he stays, but he has to show he can motivate. Playing conservative with a good back line and goalkeeper is fine, but you need to have an identity on the pitch as well. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by teke817

[Bananas]

Natcho is the epitome of a number 8.  Throw in a Fortounis as number 10 (to illustrate the point) and a striker who is just a little faster, stronger, clinical than Klaus and you have a real team.

Regarding our inability to force the tempo of the game, I can only assume Ivic doesn't know how or we just don't have the personnel to do it.  It's not an easy thing to do.  Time and again I see opposition slow the tempo, kill the flow and we don't know how to stop it.  How is it when we play Fiorentina or Olympiakos we can play quite well and yet have 1 scoring chance against Trikala and a few against PAO.  It's because in those games we are reacting to a strong/better opposition.  It's ... easier in a sense.  Forcing the tempo yourself is a whole different game.  Even when we do it, the players don't know why ... it just happens.

Regarding PAO, Ouzonidis played with common sense.  He made sure (as I would too) that Rodrigues had no space to work with.  He also made sure Campos copped a good bashing.  Both wings nullified or reduced and we have nothing else.  Nothing through the middle.  This is where a number 8 and number 10 can make the difference.

To be fair, I don't see an easy solution.  As you say, these sorts of real quality players are not easy to come by.  We would have to make offers that we traditionally don't make.  I believe our record transfer ever is 1.4 million for Varela.  We'd need to spend double to triple that to get the sort of players we're talking about.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Bananas

[pash]

Doesn't help that we didn't play with a #10 for much of the game...

[Blackhawk]

From all accounts, it's a good thing that I did not see the game. As mentioned above we struggle against teams playing defensively. Also, all an opponent has to do is isolate Rodrigues, and our offensive threat is gone. 

[Nea Bafra]

19 hours ago, Bananas said:

Natcho is the epitome of a number 8.  Throw in a Fortounis as number 10 (to illustrate the point) and a striker who is just a little faster, stronger, clinical than Klaus and you have a real team.

Regarding our inability to force the tempo of the game, I can only assume Ivic doesn't know how or we just don't have the personnel to do it.  It's not an easy thing to do.  Time and again I see opposition slow the tempo, kill the flow and we don't know how to stop it.  How is it when we play Fiorentina or Olympiakos we can play quite well and yet have 1 scoring chance against Trikala and a few against PAO.  It's because in those games we are reacting to a strong/better opposition.  It's ... easier in a sense.  Forcing the tempo yourself is a whole different game.  Even when we do it, the players don't know why ... it just happens.

Regarding PAO, Ouzonidis played with common sense.  He made sure (as I would too) that Rodrigues had no space to work with.  He also made sure Campos copped a good bashing.  Both wings nullified or reduced and we have nothing else.  Nothing through the middle.  This is where a number 8 and number 10 can make the difference.

To be fair, I don't see an easy solution.  As you say, these sorts of real quality players are not easy to come by.  We would have to make offers that we traditionally don't make.  I believe our record transfer ever is 1.4 million for Varela.  We'd need to spend double to triple that to get the sort of players we're talking about.

Listen Bananas, I don't know who you think you are but don't come in here spouting your logic and calm minded thinking this is a football forum and that stuff wont be tolerated.

[italosPAOK4]

to xeirotero paixnidi mas thn fetinh sezon ante na doume pote 8a ksupnhsete twra